Boddy Update (1 Viewer)

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Wasps have got to be worried about attendances next season. How many of their fans from the south east will want to make a journey across country while COVID is still an issue and they’re increasingly alienating the people of Coventry. Even PSB man who loves the taste of Eastwood’s bollocks thinks they’re wronguns at the moment.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Why didn't they say that then when Sisu signed that agreement? If they wanted something wider...why not say it or put an additional clause into whatever was signed, to that point? It would seem from the outside (granted, I know less than a number on here) that Sisu have signed something that Wasps wanted and now things have changed.

Surely if Wasps were decent with their due diligence, they would've thought that 'ok, Sisu have signed this agreement with us...doesn't stop them from going after anyone else though'. Would just seem a little inept if they hadn't considered that...and as I think you pointed out elsewhere...those working for Wasps aren't stupid. Something doesn't add up.

For what it's worth btw, I can't say I agree with everything you say shmmeee...I can't be bothered to get into the you vs Nick/others stuff. You handle yourself well though despite the critcism so well done.

Its a fair question. And this is what I mean about rhetorical games. When one side says “we want no more action against the Ricoh” and the other says “we promise no more action against Wasps” it opens that door. Life would be a lot easier if both sides used the same language.

That’s what makes the indemnity interesting but even then we get into “what does the word indemnity mean?” territory and that way madness lies.

Take the ceasing of talks as another example. Wasps say “CCFC ended talks”, Boddy doesn’t actually deny this but releases a statement basically saying “well they knew there was a deadline”. That’s not an answer to the question. It’s built on the unspoken assumption that talks would end at the deadline, but why would they? Silly rhetorical games.

Sisu obviously have to play the games more as fan opinions directly impacts them more (or they think it does) whereas Wasps and CCC have the luxury of staying quiet. But they do it too don’t get me wrong.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
Wasps have got to be worried about attendances next season. How many of their fans from the south east will want to make a journey across country while COVID is still an issue and they’re increasingly alienating the people of Coventry. Even PSB man who loves the taste of Eastwood’s bollocks thinks they’re wronguns at the moment.
They've got TV money to worry about as well. Plus they've taken the money up front from CVC who potentially get 27% of future TV income now.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
I think that convo probably takes us back to when people knew about the EU complaint. Wasn’t the accusation that all legal action was dropped then the EU case turned up? Then there was/is all the stuff about the EU case being legal action etc...
....and eventually to shmeeeees point earlier that arguing over the technicalities is fruitless.

But the EU stuff is about CCC, not Wasps?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Wasps find that CCFC breach NDA, do they pursue that through the courts?

Funnily enough I am getting an NDA prepared for me. There is a clause which waivers specifics that become public knowledge - it could be argued the indemnity is public knowledge through Wasps comments in the press and that would breach a normal clause in a typical NDA
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
The EU complaint also came as news to everybody. That's definitely negotiating in bad faith, saying we've stopped everything, but then coming up with that (and the timing of the reveal was... interesting!).

I'll bow out now before I get the 'aha, but that's not a legal action' back at me ;)

Not saying it's no legal action etc, but it was directed at CCC, not Wasps. I know is semantics but why did that change for Wasps when the EU complaint is an investigation into whether CCC committed any wrongdoing?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
So you think that they should waive any right to any further legal action against the Council for the sake of a short term rent deal (that's all Wasps would offer remember)?

There's every possibility that at the end of said deal Wasps move the goalposts (again) & we're once again homeless but now with no cards to play.

And should they also stump up any costs if CCC have been found to be in the wrong as Wasps are apparently insisting?

As I say, I think it’s high risk low reward TBH. I’m not convinced the understanding of the indemnity is as it’s grown to be on here but put that to one side.

My position for some time has been to build our own ground. Given that, yeah I’d take a short term deal right now. Because I think we’re in a unique situation on the pitch with Robins and being promoted and everything that it’s a vital time to be able to build a fan base again and start establishing ourselves as a Championship club. And I don’t think you can do thatat St Andrews (though obviously if Joy
fancies making up the shortfall that second part is less of an issue).

I completely understand that you might think differently. There’s a lot of judgement calls in there about the future.

My main reasoning for thinking the state aid case won’t go anywhere like we seem to think it will is that the JR turned up nothing and the same people were adamant then it would, and if it does I can’t see Boris allowing Wasps to be bankrupted by EU mandated government action. The optics are terrible. I think there’s a core of people that have a built in mistrust of the council and are hoping something comes up, but I also think the council employ legal experts who know more than us and will have gone over anything involving Sisu with a fine tooth comb after their previous antics.

Again, judgement call, fair enough if you think differently.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
Wasps have got to be worried about attendances next season. How many of their fans from the south east will want to make a journey across country while COVID is still an issue and they’re increasingly alienating the people of Coventry. Even PSB man who loves the taste of Eastwood’s bollocks thinks they’re wronguns at the moment.

To be fair, every club is worried about attendances next season. I know that a number of L1 clubs pushed/are pushing for a delayed start to the season because if there's a long period of time without fans, those clubs will run at a massive loss.

Interestingly though, one club I've been speaking with said ticket revenue accounted for only 15% of their revenues which I found hard to believe.
 

SkyBlueTam

Well-Known Member



We have been consistently clear that we would like to see Coventry City (CCFC) return to the Ricoh Arena. Everyone agrees that it is in the best interests of the supporters, the city and the local community. We have done everything in our power to make this happen and were very close to having an agreement in place which allowed the club to return – and on terms which were attractive to both parties.
The decision of CCFC’s owners not to return the club to the Ricoh is disappointing and we understand the reaction from their fans who were hoping for a different outcome. We share the fans' frustration.
We have read the comments made by representatives of CCFC in recent days and debated whether we wished to lend them any credibility by responding or to get drawn into a public war of words. However, we believe it is important to defend ourselves against the accusations levied at us, and to address and clarify certain points.

No “Indemnity clause”
One point we have remained firm on throughout negotiations is the need to protect ourselves from future further litigious behaviour, directly or indirectly, by CCFC's owners. The fundamental principle being that there should be no further proceedings about the ownership of the Ricoh Arena. The rationale for this is obvious given CCFC owners’ long history of legal action and their publicly stated intent to pursue all legal channels to reverse Wasps’ acquisition of the Ricoh.
However, Wasps did not insist on an indemnity clause as has been claimed – this claim is simply false. In addition, nothing in the agreement would have put CCFC at substantial risk, as has also been claimed.
Wasps have incurred tens of thousands in legal costs in attempting to achieve the best possible outcome for all parties, including Sky Blue fans, which again underlines our keenness to do a deal.
This is not the outcome Wasps were hoping for.

NDA
We believe CCFC owner’s call to waive the NDA is nothing more than a tactic to distract fans. Their implication, that Wasps has something to hide, is defamatory. As they are more than aware, the NDA was signed by several parties who trusted in the enduring integrity and spirit of the agreement for the protection of their commercially sensitive data and of the independent individuals involved. It is misleading to suggest that it is simply up to Wasps to waive the NDA. We see this as nothing more than an attempt to publicly pass on the blame.

Where do we go from here
CCFC's owners have made their decision. Wasps were (and remain) surprised that CCFC owner’s withdrew from negotiations. They have never communicated to us why they withdrew – and we now have to get on with our business. We are only clarifying these points after recent articles in the press and online. We do not propose to give credibility to any other claims or distraction tactics by commenting further at this stage.
As ever, we remain ready and willing to welcome CCFC back to the Ricoh Arena.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Not saying it's no legal action etc, but it was directed at CCC, not Wasps. I know is semantics but why did that change for Wasps when the EU complaint is an investigation into whether CCC committed any wrongdoing?

Its like stolen good innit? Yeah you didn’t Nick the car, you just bought it off me, but me being proven to have nicked it will have an impact on your ownership of the car.

Put it this way: the alternative theory is that Wasps are allowing CCC to force them into bad business decisions when a quick call to the Local Authority Ombudsman would stop it all.
 

MusicDating

Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
The EU complaint also came as news to everybody. That's definitely negotiating in bad faith, saying we've stopped everything, but then coming up with that (and the timing of the reveal was... interesting!).

I'll bow out now before I get the 'aha, but that's not a legal action' back at me ;)
Well Wasps carried on negotiations when they found out. This was part of Eastwood's statement in June last year -

“As everyone is aware, we made it a pre-requisite of talks that the owners would stop pursuing proceedings around the ownership of the Ricoh Arena. We understood the owners shared that desire based on the letter it sent to us.

“Talks began in April and we entered those discussions in good faith. Since then we have been working to get that deal over the line and we did not halt discussions even when it emerged that the owners had filed a complaint to the European Commission as far back as February but not informed us of that.

“Despite significant progress being made in the discussions, we have unfortunately been unable to reach an agreement with the owners which, putting aside the complaint to the European Commission, would deliver the fundamental principle that there would be no further proceedings about the ownership of the Ricoh Arena."


Maybe Wasps shared SISU's letter with a 'third party' and maybe that 'third party' then persuaded Wasps that it might be an idea to introduce an indemnity...
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member



We have been consistently clear that we would like to see Coventry City (CCFC) return to the Ricoh Arena. Everyone agrees that it is in the best interests of the supporters, the city and the local community. We have done everything in our power to make this happen and were very close to having an agreement in place which allowed the club to return – and on terms which were attractive to both parties.
The decision of CCFC’s owners not to return the club to the Ricoh is disappointing and we understand the reaction from their fans who were hoping for a different outcome. We share the fans' frustration.
We have read the comments made by representatives of CCFC in recent days and debated whether we wished to lend them any credibility by responding or to get drawn into a public war of words. However, we believe it is important to defend ourselves against the accusations levied at us, and to address and clarify certain points.

No “Indemnity clause”
One point we have remained firm on throughout negotiations is the need to protect ourselves from future further litigious behaviour, directly or indirectly, by CCFC's owners. The fundamental principle being that there should be no further proceedings about the ownership of the Ricoh Arena. The rationale for this is obvious given CCFC owners’ long history of legal action and their publicly stated intent to pursue all legal channels to reverse Wasps’ acquisition of the Ricoh.
However, Wasps did not insist on an indemnity clause as has been claimed – this claim is simply false. In addition, nothing in the agreement would have put CCFC at substantial risk, as has also been claimed.
Wasps have incurred tens of thousands in legal costs in attempting to achieve the best possible outcome for all parties, including Sky Blue fans, which again underlines our keenness to do a deal.
This is not the outcome Wasps were hoping for.

NDA
We believe CCFC owner’s call to waive the NDA is nothing more than a tactic to distract fans. Their implication, that Wasps has something to hide, is defamatory. As they are more than aware, the NDA was signed by several parties who trusted in the enduring integrity and spirit of the agreement for the protection of their commercially sensitive data and of the independent individuals involved. It is misleading to suggest that it is simply up to Wasps to waive the NDA. We see this as nothing more than an attempt to publicly pass on the blame.

Where do we go from here
CCFC's owners have made their decision. Wasps were (and remain) surprised that CCFC owner’s withdrew from negotiations. They have never communicated to us why they withdrew – and we now have to get on with our business. We are only clarifying these points after recent articles in the press and online. We do not propose to give credibility to any other claims or distraction tactics by commenting further at this stage.
As ever, we remain ready and willing to welcome CCFC back to the Ricoh Arena.
Is that the best they can do? Say nothing it is then.

Dropping the NDA isn’t a sisu tactic, Mark and Pete asked all involved and Sisu said yes.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member



We have been consistently clear that we would like to see Coventry City (CCFC) return to the Ricoh Arena. Everyone agrees that it is in the best interests of the supporters, the city and the local community. We have done everything in our power to make this happen and were very close to having an agreement in place which allowed the club to return – and on terms which were attractive to both parties.
The decision of CCFC’s owners not to return the club to the Ricoh is disappointing and we understand the reaction from their fans who were hoping for a different outcome. We share the fans' frustration.
We have read the comments made by representatives of CCFC in recent days and debated whether we wished to lend them any credibility by responding or to get drawn into a public war of words. However, we believe it is important to defend ourselves against the accusations levied at us, and to address and clarify certain points.

No “Indemnity clause”
One point we have remained firm on throughout negotiations is the need to protect ourselves from future further litigious behaviour, directly or indirectly, by CCFC's owners. The fundamental principle being that there should be no further proceedings about the ownership of the Ricoh Arena. The rationale for this is obvious given CCFC owners’ long history of legal action and their publicly stated intent to pursue all legal channels to reverse Wasps’ acquisition of the Ricoh.
However, Wasps did not insist on an indemnity clause as has been claimed – this claim is simply false. In addition, nothing in the agreement would have put CCFC at substantial risk, as has also been claimed.
Wasps have incurred tens of thousands in legal costs in attempting to achieve the best possible outcome for all parties, including Sky Blue fans, which again underlines our keenness to do a deal.
This is not the outcome Wasps were hoping for.

NDA
We believe CCFC owner’s call to waive the NDA is nothing more than a tactic to distract fans. Their implication, that Wasps has something to hide, is defamatory. As they are more than aware, the NDA was signed by several parties who trusted in the enduring integrity and spirit of the agreement for the protection of their commercially sensitive data and of the independent individuals involved. It is misleading to suggest that it is simply up to Wasps to waive the NDA. We see this as nothing more than an attempt to publicly pass on the blame.

Where do we go from here
CCFC's owners have made their decision. Wasps were (and remain) surprised that CCFC owner’s withdrew from negotiations. They have never communicated to us why they withdrew – and we now have to get on with our business. We are only clarifying these points after recent articles in the press and online. We do not propose to give credibility to any other claims or distraction tactics by commenting further at this stage.
As ever, we remain ready and willing to welcome CCFC back to the Ricoh Arena.

Name names motherfucker! Who do we need to give a blow job to to get the NDA waived!?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
The theory is that the EU complaint itself isn’t the issue (Wasps said this on their statement last year), but that a successful judgement for Sisu opens up other actions against Wasps.

So while Sisu can’t drop the EU complaint, they can promise not to follow it up with other actions.

although sisu are claiming they have waivered the right to further action, it would be great if this could be cleared up one way or another.
 

SBT

Well-Known Member
Not saying it's no legal action etc, but it was directed at CCC, not Wasps. I know is semantics but why did that change for Wasps when the EU complaint is an investigation into whether CCC committed any wrongdoing?

Wasps are shit-scared that they'll get blown up in the crossfire of the holy war between SISU and the council. They have no control over that conflict. The only way they can protect themselves is to exploit the only leverage they have over the party that instigated the EU complaint in the first place - a rental deal at the Ricoh. I'm not saying it's right, but from their perspective, it makes sense.

The EU complaint was something of a last resort/big bazooka for SISU, but in the sense that it's forced Wasps to harden their position against us, it may not have been a masterstroke in hindsight.
 

robbiethemole

Well-Known Member
As they are more than aware, the NDA was signed by several parties who trusted in the enduring integrity and spirit of the agreement for the protection of their commercially sensitive data and of the independent individuals involved.

Given all the bridges to play there again appear to have been burnt, who and what/why is being protected??
 

Nick

Administrator
Its like stolen good innit? Yeah you didn’t Nick the car, you just bought it off me, but me being proven to have nicked it will have an impact on your ownership of the car.

Put it this way: the alternative theory is that Wasps are allowing CCC to force them into bad business decisions when a quick call to the Local Authority Ombudsman would stop it all.

But they blame the person who makes the call to report a stolen car rather than the person who stole it? Then you also have why wasn't the car HPI checked, especially if the car was already in the middle of shady legals? Maybe it was just too good a deal to turn down.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Not saying it's no legal action etc, but it was directed at CCC, not Wasps. I know is semantics but why did that change for Wasps when the EU complaint is an investigation into whether CCC committed any wrongdoing?
Yeah, but it's the potential impact to their business as a consequence, the potential risk, and the uncertainty probably / possibly putting sponsors etc. off. We'd need OSB here to explain if the last accounts showed any money set aside (don't think it did) but, depending on how big a risk it was deemed to be, they might have to ringfence some funds they'd otherwise use elsewhere. Plus the fact that as a point of principle, if you'd been negotiating something with a no legals caveat, you'd have thought at that point SISU would have said well there is this complaint, thought you'd better just know about it, rather than hide it away until just as the deal was set to be signed.

If I were Wasps, I'd stop talks, and be pissed at that. If I were SISU... I can't help but think that's what they wanted to happen.

And I think that's the point all through this isn't it. Do I agree with Wasps stance? Absolutely not, especially from a CCFC POV. Do I want Wasps here? Absolutely not, the sooner they sod off and leave Coventry sports to CCFC and CRFC the better. Do I understand how, as a commercial entity, they reach the decisions they do? Yes. Equally, do I approve of SISU's behavour through much of this? Nope. Do I understand much of it? Yup. Push me and absolutely I'd have to come down on team CCFC, it's a no-brainer. But that's the emotional choice, and we should always make sure we hold them to account, however much we take their side because it's an emotional thing.

And that's when I get disillusioned with modern sport; it's not about the clubs, it's about the business. And business can be a shady place, but usually you don't notice so much if two corner shops are fighting one another for trade, and warehouse space!
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
My position for some time has been to build our own ground. Given that, yeah I’d take a short term deal right now. Because I think we’re in a unique situation on the pitch with Robins and being promoted and everything that it’s a vital time to be able to build a fan base again and start establishing ourselves as a Championship club. And I don’t think you can do thatat St Andrews (though obviously if Joy
fancies making up the shortfall that second part is less of an issue).
You have to say that if ever there's a season to be away from our home city, we've lucked into the right one next season!
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
Hmm wasps statement seems to say none of what cov saod is true. Someone must be lying?

Does indemnity issue exist or not?

And do sisu want cov to play at ricoh or not?

They are the that questions I have currently

Alao agree wasps not liking that social media has turned agaisbr them

I just hope sisu aint fuking us about by wanting to stay away. Hardly trust wasps though
Notice they didn't dispute the monday morning solicitor thing
 

robbiethemole

Well-Known Member
Not the outcome Wasps were expecting?? what did they expect, a commercial suicide agreement from the Club and to drain us dry as well??


They were not informed of the Club negotiating with other parties?? well fuck me, history repeats as the Club were in the same position when CCC and Wasps kept their talks under wraps. Just a bunch of c*nts spouting the same old shite again
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Is that the best they can do? Say nothing it is then.

Dropping the NDA isn’t a sisu tactic, Mark and Pete asked all involved and Sisu said yes.

TBF that doesn’t mean it’s not a tactic. It just means Sisu knew it wasn’t in Wasps gift to comply so it was safe to say they would (if you take this statement as fact, which I’m not saying I am).

Interesting they are clear about what the indemnity doesn’t involve, e.g. bankrupting the club. Would like to hear more from the club on that as seems it’s the real area of disagreement on facts.

I mean it’ll make no difference but me and Nick cant keep arguing about the definition of legals forever.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
wasn't Friday the deadline given by the EFL, (which was an extension from the initial deadline of last Monday)?

Are wasps saying they were unaware of that?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
wasn't Friday the deadline given by the EFL, (which was an extension from the initial deadline of last Monday)?

Are wasps saying they were unaware of that?

Either that or they didn’t think it’d end negotiations. I assume the negotiations at Sixfields carried on past the EFL deadline as we started the season there then moved back.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Either that or they didn’t think it’d end negotiations. I assume the negotiations at Sixfields carried on past the EFL deadline as we started the season there then moved back.
Also, did any of us really believe we'd actually kick off at Sixfields, until right on kick off time itself?

I was convinced there'd be a last-minute change of heart!
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member



We have been consistently clear that we would like to see Coventry City (CCFC) return to the Ricoh Arena. Everyone agrees that it is in the best interests of the supporters, the city and the local community. We have done everything in our power to make this happen and were very close to having an agreement in place which allowed the club to return – and on terms which were attractive to both parties.
The decision of CCFC’s owners not to return the club to the Ricoh is disappointing and we understand the reaction from their fans who were hoping for a different outcome. We share the fans' frustration.
We have read the comments made by representatives of CCFC in recent days and debated whether we wished to lend them any credibility by responding or to get drawn into a public war of words. However, we believe it is important to defend ourselves against the accusations levied at us, and to address and clarify certain points.

No “Indemnity clause”
One point we have remained firm on throughout negotiations is the need to protect ourselves from future further litigious behaviour, directly or indirectly, by CCFC's owners. The fundamental principle being that there should be no further proceedings about the ownership of the Ricoh Arena. The rationale for this is obvious given CCFC owners’ long history of legal action and their publicly stated intent to pursue all legal channels to reverse Wasps’ acquisition of the Ricoh.
However, Wasps did not insist on an indemnity clause as has been claimed – this claim is simply false. In addition, nothing in the agreement would have put CCFC at substantial risk, as has also been claimed.
Wasps have incurred tens of thousands in legal costs in attempting to achieve the best possible outcome for all parties, including Sky Blue fans, which again underlines our keenness to do a deal.
This is not the outcome Wasps were hoping for.

NDA
We believe CCFC owner’s call to waive the NDA is nothing more than a tactic to distract fans. Their implication, that Wasps has something to hide, is defamatory. As they are more than aware, the NDA was signed by several parties who trusted in the enduring integrity and spirit of the agreement for the protection of their commercially sensitive data and of the independent individuals involved. It is misleading to suggest that it is simply up to Wasps to waive the NDA. We see this as nothing more than an attempt to publicly pass on the blame.

Where do we go from here
CCFC's owners have made their decision. Wasps were (and remain) surprised that CCFC owner’s withdrew from negotiations. They have never communicated to us why they withdrew – and we now have to get on with our business. We are only clarifying these points after recent articles in the press and online. We do not propose to give credibility to any other claims or distraction tactics by commenting further at this stage.
As ever, we remain ready and willing to welcome CCFC back to the Ricoh Arena.



giphy.gif
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Wasps statements are purely driven to upset Coventry fans and sway the attention back on the owners...

Very sad
 

Nick

Administrator
wasn't Friday the deadline given by the EFL, (which was an extension from the initial deadline of last Monday)?

Are wasps saying they were unaware of that?

They seem to be.

Boddy was quite specific about a Monday deadline and Wasps only instructing their solicitors on Monday morning.

They need to be asked that directly I guess. That would be a massive indicator.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top