Brussels (5 Viewers)

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 23, 2016

Still on the plus side, am sure The Lurker took part in the candlelight vigil at Trafalgar Square after Paris, and fair play to him for that.

Am sure after the RUssian invasion of Ukraine he marched on the Russian embassy, so fair play to him for that.

Am sure after the Ealing tube bombing, he marched in slidarity with all Christians across Cov & Warwickshire to condemn the acts of his fellow Christians (they're all the same them Christians, spend their time bombing stuff, and shit), so fair play to him for that.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 23, 2016

Nick said:
By all means, gather intelligence and then go in and take them out but as soon as you start bombing the shit out of other countries and killing innocent people it is no better is it?

This is exactly the problem. It just furthers division and the circles get ever decreasing. The innocent brother, sister, son or daughter of someone killed is then ripe to be plucked off by evil.

Nick · Mar 23, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
This is exactly the problem. It just furthers division and the circles get ever decreasing. The innocent brother, sister, son or daughter of someone killed is then ripe to be plucked off by evil.

Exactly.

The only thing with picking targeted people off is that it doesn't happen overnight.

chiefdave · Mar 23, 2016

The Lurker said:
They should be out Marching against it. They soon March or start petitions against tesco for selling bacon crisps next to Ramadan aisles or against trump but you never see mass marches by Muslims when this happens

Out of interest how often do you go out marching against us bombing other countries?

Macca · Mar 23, 2016

chiefdave said:
Out of interest how often do you go out marching against us bombing other countries?

Interestingly lots of people do but doesn't stop them being targets. They hate us, whatever our views, whatever our political stance. Western foreign policy certainly hasn't helped but our biggest problem was being born who we are, non believers, They are unrelenting, intolerant and dedicated. The west, their enemy is in decline. Weak, soft underbelly and apologising for their very exsitance. Only one winner here.

I could see somewhere like Belgium being the first to fall, roll on the return of the Dark Ages, running life around a magical fairy in the sky.

Nick · Mar 23, 2016

I don't get why after things like this is it always revealed that they are well known to the police and agencies for terrorism etc.

Too much nicey nicey and political correctness.

If somebody is a well known terrorist, get in and deal with it before they have chance to do shit like this.

How many hundreds if not thousands of like minded people knew that attack was coming? How many hundreds if not thousands of people are harbouring people like this and covering up for them knowing full well?

SIR ERNIE · Mar 23, 2016

The rise of terrorist movements such as Al Qaeda can be traced back to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in the late 1980's. Then in 2001 the US invaded Afghanistan, supported by NATO in 2003. Also in 2003 the US & UK invade Iraq, further destabilising the country/region from which ISIS grew. Then in 2011 a coalition including Belgian, French, UK and US forces invade Libya and most recently the bombings of Syria by US, Russian, French and UK forces.

Many would say that those invasions were unwise, unjustified and in the case of the Iraq invasion, illegal. Egotistical posturing by weak politicians such as Blair and Bush.

The point is that by meddling in the Middle East, a region culturally and religiously totally different to ours and one we don't understand, you feed the extremist views that already exist there. It becomes fertile ground for those who believe the West wants to destroy Islam. We have given them a cause. However twisted, warped and evil it is, they believe they're justified.

ajsccfc · Mar 23, 2016

The Lurker said:
You soon see Muslims outrage when trump speaks against them but when a act of terrorism is committed they are very quiet

Because Trump talking about all Muslims references them specifically, whereas acts of terrorism don't.

There's no compulsion on me to point out I don't condone Anders Breivik as an example, but if someone was on TV saying that all white people shouldn't be allowed out after 7pm that's a bit more cause to cry bollocks.

Macca · Mar 23, 2016

ajsccfc said:
Because Trump talking about all Muslims references them specifically, whereas acts of terrorism don't.

There's no compulsion on me to point out I don't condone Anders Breivik as an example, but if someone was on TV saying that all white people shouldn't be allowed out after 7pm that's a bit more cause to cry bollocks.

There are a few that shouldnt to be fair.

Ian1779 · Mar 23, 2016

Hitler killed 6 millions Jews, as well as several hundred thousands of homosexuals, Romanys and disabled people.

He was a Christian

Does that mean Christianity is the problem?

Macca · Mar 23, 2016

Ian1779 said:
Hitler killed 6 millions Jews, as well as several hundred thousands of homosexuals, Romanys and disabled people.

He was a Christian

Does that mean Christianity is the problem?

We did something about Hitler I believe unless my Grandad was bullshitting

Ian1779 · Mar 23, 2016

Macca said:
We did something about Hitler I believe unless my Grandad was bullshitting

We went after him - not the religion he was a part of.

Ian1779 · Mar 23, 2016

SIR ERNIE said:
The rise of terrorist movements such as Al Qaeda can be traced back to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in the late 1980's. Then in 2001 the US invaded Afghanistan, supported by NATO in 2003. Also in 2003 the US & UK invade Iraq, further destabilising the country/region from which ISIS grew. Then in 2011 a coalition including Belgian, French, UK and US forces invade Libya and most recently the bombings of Syria by US, Russian, French and UK forces.

Many would say that those invasions were unwise, unjustified and in the case of the Iraq invasion, illegal. Egotistical posturing by weak politicians such as Blair and Bush.

The point is that by meddling in the Middle East, a region culturally and religiously totally different to ours and one we don't understand, you feed the extremist views that already exist there. It becomes fertile ground for those who believe the West wants to destroy Islam. We have given them a cause. However twisted, warped and evil it is, they believe they're justified.

We also created a power vacuum which organisations like ISIS were only to grateful to fill.

Macca · Mar 23, 2016

We went after an entire nation and no doubt killed 1000's of people who didn't share his views. Different era I guess. Just shows what bollocks religion can be. Thousands of christians killing thousands of christians all praying for success to the same God

Grendel · Mar 23, 2016

Ian1779 said:
We went after him - not the religion he was a part of.

We didn't. We ended up destroying the whole country and breaking it's resistance. As we did Japan. If you suggest we obliterate the Middle East in the same way and declare world war 3 that's your call.

Macca · Mar 23, 2016

Generally speaking dominant civilisations rise through being tough and resilient and not wavering. Its how the West became dominant and its how Islam will follow. Rise and fall, its happened for thousands of years

Ian1779 · Mar 23, 2016

Grendel said:
We didn't. We ended up destroying the whole country and breaking it's resistance. As we did Japan. If you suggest we obliterate the Middle East in the same way and declare world war 3 that's your call.

That's not what I am suggesting at all.

Macca · Mar 23, 2016

Meddling abroad is the problem, we need to sort out the issues within. That requires a mixture of tolerance whilst also being clear about the values and behaviour expected in a democratic modern society. There is no stomach for this hence my pessimism

rob9872 · Mar 23, 2016

Deport anyone known in any way connected to terrorism and any sympathisers can go with them. We're an island, so should then be much easier to protect our borders and don't let anyone in we're not sure of. Send aid but no refuge. If that means brexit so be it and keep our shores safe for our children and beyond. If that makes us less tolerant then tough. Keep out of any move to bomb abroad too as there will be repercussions and this lot won't negotiate like the ira did, they want total domination.

wingy · Mar 25, 2016

Seems there has been either gross Incompetence, Negligence or an Inexplicable reluctance to act by the Belgian Security Services given the Information at their disposal.

Otis · Mar 25, 2016

wingy said:
Seems there has been either gross Incompetence, Negligence or an Inexplicable reluctance to act by the Belgian Security Services given the Information at their disposal.

What I don't get is that a bomb went off at the airport and then some 45 mins later, one at a tube station too.

Don't authorities usually shut down all public transport in terms of underground systems and airports on the back of any initial bomb?

Why didn't they react after the first incident?

wingy · Mar 25, 2016

Otis said:
What I don't get is that a bomb went off at the airport and then some 45 mins later, one at a tube station too.

Don't authorities usually shut down all public transport in terms of underground systems and airports on the back of any initial bomb?

Why didn't they react after the first incident?

Not sure they do Otis, don't think we did in London either.
Yet I'm sure it will be considered in the future.
The point I was making was that If I'm correct, they've had data, DNA etc, enough to lift these people and lock them up.

Otis · Mar 25, 2016

wingy said:
Not sure they do Otis, don't think we did in London either.
Yet I'm sure it will be considered in the future.
The point I was making was that If I'm correct, they've had data, DNA etc, enough to lift these people and lock them up.

Oh yes, sure. Wasn't trying to deflect from your point, was trying to embellish it.

Did we seriously carrying on running the tube network after the 7/7 bombings? I am shocked if true.

We know quite often these terrorists plant multiple bombs and in more than one area.

wingy · Mar 25, 2016

Otis said:
Oh yes, sure. Wasn't trying to deflect from your point, was trying to embellish it.

Did we seriously carrying on running the tube network after the 7/7 bombings? I am shocked if true.

We know quite often these terrorists plant multiple bombs and in more than one area.

Was thinking more other forms of public transport.
Can't believe that it was ten years ago, maybe that's why I can't fully recollect what happened. :facepalm:

Sick Boy · Mar 26, 2016

The tube was shut down but the buses were running, which led to that tosser blowing himself up on a bus

Otis · Mar 26, 2016

Sick Boy said:
The tube was shut down but the buses were running, which led to that tosser blowing himself up on a bus

Right, cheers for that. Couldn't recall.

Think we need to be more vigilant and reactive next time. A bomb goes off, shut down all public transport systems.

dutchman · Mar 26, 2016

Otis said:
Think we need to be more vigilant and reactive next time. A bomb goes off, shut down all public transport systems.

Wouldn't they just pick the next easiest target, a crowded pub or supermarket perhaps?

Otis · Mar 26, 2016

dutchman said:
Wouldn't they just pick the next easiest target, a crowded pub or supermarket perhaps?

Yep, almost certainly.

As I said to my missus, I can see in the not too distant future, armed guards at every school, shopping mall and bus and train station.

These terrorists will constantly look for new targets.

martcov · Mar 26, 2016

Macca said:
Generally speaking dominant civilisations rise through being tough and resilient and not wavering. Its how the West became dominant and its how Islam will follow. Rise and fall, its happened for thousands of years

Do you see Islam as being capable of being a coherent civilisation? There is no leader and or universally accepted coordinator. In addition Muslims are happily killing Muslims everyday because one side considers the others to be heretics. A ramshackle portion of the relatively uneducated masses may be capable of petty theft, rape, grooming or even killing and maiming though cowardly bombings, but what technology can they produce? Cars? Planes? Mobile phones? Their society is weaker than ours in technology and half the population ( the women) are not considered equal and are largely even more uneducated than the men. What I hope rises out of this evil, is a Muslim reformation or a turning away from Islam. Over a billion people are not crazy and most want to bring up their families in peace and educate their children ( at least their sons ). Sooner or later there may be an internal revolution in their society - and we should stand by our own civilisation in the meantime and lead by example. Do not overreact by answering violence with indiscriminate violence or hatred. We should keep religion out of our politics and show them that a just system gives equal rights to everyone. We don't need religion, but will tolerate it outside of government.

Otis · Mar 27, 2016

There's very little stability in many Islamic countries and constant warring and fighting amongst differing factions.

Our democracy, though nowhere near perfect, brings much more stability.

I just can't see Islam dominating. Half of them can't even get on with each other, let alone produce a coherent, stable state.

Jack Griffin · Mar 27, 2016

Otis said:
There's very little stability in many Islamic countries and constant warring and fighting amongst differing factions.

Our democracy, though nowhere near perfect, brings much more stability.

I just can't see Islam dominating. Half of them can't even get on with each other, let alone produce a coherent, stable state.

Muslims keep claiming Islam is a religion of peace, but Islam was forged in war by Mohamed conquering the Arabian peninsula, his successors continued the conquests and 120 years after Mohamed died they were attacking Spain & the land now called Bangladesh. I think they are telling porkies.

Samo · Mar 27, 2016

martcov said:
Do you see Islam as being capable of being a coherent civilisation? There is no leader and or universally accepted coordinator. In addition Muslims are happily killing Muslims everyday because one side considers the others to be heretics. A ramshackle portion of the relatively uneducated masses may be capable of petty theft, rape, grooming or even killing and maiming though cowardly bombings, but what technology can they produce? Cars? Planes? Mobile phones? Their society is weaker than ours in technology and half the population ( the women) are not considered equal and are largely even more uneducated than the men. What I hope rises out of this evil, is a Muslim reformation or a turning away from Islam. Over a billion people are not crazy and most want to bring up their families in peace and educate their children ( at least their sons ). Sooner or later there may be an internal revolution in their society - and we should stand by our own civilisation in the meantime and lead by example. Do not overreact by answering violence with indiscriminate violence or hatred. We should keep religion out of our politics and show them that a just system gives equal rights to everyone. We don't need religion, but will tolerate it outside of government.

This part of what you say is certainly true, it would only lead to further radicalization. You only have to look at the Easter Rising to see how it works.

dutchman · Mar 27, 2016

Otis said:
There's very little stability in many Islamic countries and constant warring and fighting amongst differing factions.

Instability and fighting between factions which in many cases was supported by western intelligence agencies with the ultimate goal of regime change in those counties.

Macca · Mar 27, 2016

martcov said:
Do you see Islam as being capable of being a coherent civilisation? There is no leader and or universally accepted coordinator. In addition Muslims are happily killing Muslims everyday because one side considers the others to be heretics. A ramshackle portion of the relatively uneducated masses may be capable of petty theft, rape, grooming or even killing and maiming though cowardly bombings, but what technology can they produce? Cars? Planes? Mobile phones? Their society is weaker than ours in technology and half the population ( the women) are not considered equal and are largely even more uneducated than the men. What I hope rises out of this evil, is a Muslim reformation or a turning away from Islam. Over a billion people are not crazy and most want to bring up their families in peace and educate their children ( at least their sons ). Sooner or later there may be an internal revolution in their society - and we should stand by our own civilisation in the meantime and lead by example. Do not overreact by answering violence with indiscriminate violence or hatred. We should keep religion out of our politics and show them that a just system gives equal rights to everyone. We don't need religion, but will tolerate it outside of government.

Would you have pedicted its prevalence in the West 30 years ago? Every chance it will dominate in my opinion

rob9872 · Mar 28, 2016

Couldn't disagree more. Forget the namby pamby ways, they're walking all over us whilst we let them. All this "don't rise to it, it's what they want" bollocks - I get less tolerant with each attack and it's now time to fight fire with fire. I wouldn't be against nuking the fuckers. Call me a racist, a xenephobe, a right wing daily mail reader or any other cheap insult, water off a ducks back. If we let these continue it will be too late to stop.

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