Butts park arena? (27 Viewers)

olderskyblue · May 19, 2016

Blimey, it does make you laugh. When wasps came on the scene, there were lots of posts bemoaning the fact that the pitch would be "ruined" for CCFC matches. I have read most of this thread, and yet I don't see any of those same comments appearing. (Maybe they did in the last 6 pages or so?)
And people moaned about the Ricoh being inaccessible hence crowds would suffer, but now suggesting that being centrally located wouldn't increase the support.

How views change..

I think a move to the Butts would be a good thing if..

It was a cost positive exercise for CCFC
It did not load CCFC with an additional £20m to 40m debt (who will pay for what?)
If the infrastructure questions were answered
If the stadium wasn't restricted to 15-20K fans
Even better if CCFC actually owned it (without the additional debt - others financing it etc)

Concerns are:
How "sharing" with CRFC would actually work
What financial gain would we make by moving
CRFC eventually realising that getting into bed with SISU might not be a good thing. (continual court cases do not help with that)
CCC obstructing it (and the reasons for doing so)

to name a few

Bottom line is we need more information to be able to have a better view on it, but in principle, it's not a bad idea.

I also thought it would be expected that the people that currently have the rights to and use the Butts, should be the ones to announce any plans concerning it. And of course SISU are smart enough to understand that...

ccfc92 · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
I understand the pressure on Wasps logic, but I also don't understand what RFC would gain from it? All they would be doing is lying to their fans and pissing them off, and if they had looked at the Telegraph in the last few years they would have seen how that wouldn't have worked.

Do we think Cov RFC are stupid enough to just fall for it and go along and it is just them being naive and SISU are using them?

Would you agree, it's a possibility?

ccfc92 · May 19, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
You need a 'fully costed' business plan? Surely you'll also need a fully costed plan for remaining at the Ricoh? Or are you assuming that is better?

Both would be great
We are always being told how important we are as fans, so why not share information with the fans?

Edit: he did say planS tbf.

fernandopartridge · May 19, 2016

olderskyblue said:
Blimey, it does make you laugh. When wasps came on the scene, there were lots of posts bemoaning the fact that the pitch would be "ruined" for CCFC matches. I have read most of this thread, and yet I don't see any of those same comments appearing. (Maybe they did in the last 6 pages or so?)
And people moaned about the Ricoh being inaccessible hence crowds would suffer, but now suggesting that being centrally located wouldn't increase the support.

How views change..

I think a move to the Butts would be a good thing if..

It was a cost positive exercise for CCFC
It did not load CCFC with an additional £20m to 40m debt (who will pay for what?)
If the infrastructure questions were answered
If the stadium wasn't restricted to 15-20K fans
Even better if CCFC actually owned it (without the additional debt - others financing it etc)

Concerns are:
How "sharing" with CRFC would actually work
What financial gain would we make by moving
CRFC eventually realising that getting into bed with SISU might not be a good thing. (continual court cases do not help with that)
CCC obstructing it (and the reasons for doing so)

to name a few

Bottom line is we need more information to be able to have a better view on it, but in principle, it's not a bad idea.

I also thought it would be expected that the people that currently have the rights to and use the Butts, should be the ones to announce any plans concerning it. And of course SISU are smart enough to understand that...

The pitch this season held up very well tbf, credit to the groundsmen and dare I say, Wasps, for installing it.

Agree with all that you've said (and Tony is right really as well tbf)

Captain Dart · May 19, 2016

chiefdave said:
Not my plan at all, my preferred option is to do whatever is best for the club longterm. You dismiss anything that doesn't involve handing money over to Wasps.

If SISU want to build a stadium near the City Centre then they need a bigger site than the Butts with better road links & parking nearby.

A few days back you floated the idea of putting one on the edge of the precinct replacing some of the underused retail capacity, which was quite imaginative, the trick is to bundle the new development with something that is a money spinner. That idea could be good for everyone, it regenerates centre & could provide an independent home for CCFC with required income streams.

Accommodation (student or sheltered) is the big thing at present, that is why some was mentioned in conjunction with the Butts development. Given that there is already a retirement village down there I would have though that was the natural way to go, I don't think students & old folks mix well!

olderskyblue · May 19, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
The pitch this season held up very well tbf, credit to the groundsmen and dare I say, Wasps, for installing it.

Agree with all that you've said (and Tony is right really as well tbf)

I think someone has hijacked your login details fp....

skybluetony176 · May 19, 2016

Grendel said:
So without a costed business plan you wouldn't attend?

Attend what? It needs a costs business plan before anything can happen? Why you keep trying to get me to say I won't go is beyond me. Other than you can't attack the point so you're attacking the man making it. Maybe you just don't want to know if it would be done with the clubs best interests at heart and you just want to stick two fingers up to Wasps, CCC and anyone else who's on your little list regardless of the impact on the club. You certainly seem to have an issue with someone asking the most basic and obvious questions at the very least. Why is that? If I was as stupid as you I'd probably be suggesting that it's because your paymasters SISU make you do it as the accusation you like to throw around. I'm not though. Although it doesn't add up why you have a problem with me asking the basics. Maybe it's just me and you're so entrenched in your war of words with me that you've lost the ability to be read my post, digest them and actually see that it's a good idea to get the full picture before jumping in eyes closed.

You're another already queuing up to get in the BPA and you have absolutely no idea if it's the best thing for the club. Blind stupidity being demonstrated to the highest degree. Well done.

Captain Dart · May 19, 2016

Otis said:
This therefore just reinforces the suggestion of a sunken pitch, but we all know that would add millions to the project. Even on the drawing board I can foresee major problems.

Its not as if its in an area that is prone to flooding is it? Oh shit!

Nick · May 19, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
You're another already queuing up to get in the BPA and you have absolutely no idea if it's the best thing for the club. Blind stupidity being demonstrated to the highest degree. Well done.

surely most city fans would queue up if city played there?

skybluetony176 · May 19, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
You need a 'fully costed' business plan? Surely you'll also need a fully costed plan for remaining at the Ricoh? Or are you assuming that is better?

No. I've repeatedly said for a long long time we need both. Which is why when CA came out and practically said the same a while back I was all smug about it. Never said anything different. Sorry if I've not made that clear on this particular thread but that has always been my stance.

skybluetony176 · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
surely most city fans would queue up if city played there?

Not what I meant and you know that.

chiefdave · May 19, 2016

Rough and ready but the site seems to be approx 8 acres, more if the adjoining park could be purchased. To compare the footprint of Millennium Stadium (74,500) is 9 acres, Bobby Dodd Stadium (55,000) is 8.75 acres.

Nick · May 19, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Not what I meant and you know that.

How is it meant then?

People aren't queuing up there now as we don't play there.

Have you got a full financial business plan before you queue up at the ricoh to watch?

torchomatic · May 19, 2016

Captain Dart said:
Its not as if its in an area that is prone to flooding is it? Oh shit!

That's desperate even for you. When was that taken? 2016?

hill83 · May 19, 2016

Just drove past the Butts. Nothing happening yet.

chiefdave · May 19, 2016

hill83 said:
Just drove past the Butts. Nothing happening yet.

Many people queuing?

hill83 · May 19, 2016

chiefdave said:
Many people queuing?

About 2000.

I see the fans group have released a statement urging the club to seek a long term deal at the Ricoh.

Nick · May 19, 2016

hill83 said:
Just drove past the Butts. Nothing happening yet.

I am still at Toolstation waiting for them to get me my shovel, I'll be down in 10!

hill83 · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
I am still at Toolstation waiting for them to get me my shovel, I'll be down in 10!

Just popped in the Aardvark for a quick one. Hurry up

skybluetony176 · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
How is it meant then?

People aren't queuing up there now as we don't play there.

Have you got a full financial business plan before you queue up at the ricoh to watch?

I must have made a point because you're pretending to be stupid on a throw away not to be taken literally comment added on at the end.

colin101 · May 19, 2016

chiefdave said:
Rough and ready but the site seems to be approx 8 acres, more if the adjoining park could be purchased. To compare the footprint of Millennium Stadium (74,500) is 9 acres, Bobby Dodd Stadium (55,000) is 8.75 acres.

Is the 12 lane carriageway adjacent to the Bobby Dodd stadium part of the plan (check it out with google earth)

torchomatic · May 19, 2016

Otis said:
Ah, let's all get ridiculous, eh!!

No-one is talking about about 90,000 seater stadiums, or indeed an 80,000, or 70,0000, or 60, or 50, or even 40.

We just want to be able to compete with the likes of Stoke and West Brom and Norwich and Southampton etc.

15,000 is fine in the very short term, but it won't take us very far forwards. We just want to be on an even footing with clubs of a similar ilk and though we are not there right now in terms of League status or success, just one promotion could change all that.

Where do we want to be in 5 years would you say? For me it would be promotion and making a good fist of it in the Championship.

We need something expandable that will take us forwards and as a club we should have ambition.

No-one is talking about anything ridiculous, just sensible for the future and on the proviso we want to be a successful club.

If we don't want that we might as well all just pack in now.

We need to stop just looking at the here and now and requirement this very minute in League One and look it terms of an optimistic future and what will see us through the next 5-10 years and beyond.

We need to be fair to Cov Rugby club too and make a firm commitment and the goal of a long term future together.

Yes, I was being ridiculous, of course. However, I also think comments along the lines of “if the stadium isn’t at least 30K then it shows a lack of ambition” are equally ridiculous.

This could, potentially, be a great move for Coventry City yet fans are already moaning as it is smaller than the Ricoh; you know the ground where stands have to be closed because we can’t fill it.

How many times have we genuinely needed a full capacity Ricoh in the eleven years we’ve been there? Two or three occasions I would say.

A larger capacity isn’t a bad thing but neither is a smaller one in my opinion. 15K would be a good start and could be increased over time IF we needed it too.

People talk about finance and surely building a stadium that is too big and therefore more expensive is hardly being prudent, is it? Surely, we should expand if and when we need to and if we can afford it. If not, we’ll be rattling around inside like we are at the Ricoh.

I don’t think I’m being pessimistic as opposed to optimistic by saying this. You say build it all now as we might be in the Prem. Yes, we might, and we might not. We’ve spent shedloads of cash we couldn’t afford in the past and look where it has got us.

You’re right it has to be expandable and indications are it would be, so I really can’t understand all the negativity. Then again, if it wasn’t the capacity, it would be something else.

chiefdave · May 19, 2016

colin101 said:
Is the 12 lane carriageway adjacent to the Bobby Dodd stadium part of the plan (check it out with google earth)

In similar fashion to the ring road in Cov it was already there and to access the stadium you have to turn off onto a minor road.

And there's no car park either.

Wm65 · May 19, 2016

The location is the real asset as it's easy to get to from the city centre - certainly wouldn't drive there .

Captain Dart · May 19, 2016

torchomatic said:
That's desperate even for you. When was that taken? 2016?

1970, the Butts & surrounding area is low lying and quite close to the river, so drainage becomes a bigger issue should the pitch be lowered, this is simple engineering. I'm not saying it is impossible but I'm pointing out it makes it more expensive.

italiahorse · May 19, 2016

torchomatic said:
Yes, I was being ridiculous, of course. However, I also think comments along the lines of “if the stadium isn’t at least 30K then it shows a lack of ambition” are equally ridiculous.

This could, potentially, be a great move for Coventry City yet fans are already moaning as it is smaller than the Ricoh; you know the ground where stands have to be closed because we can’t fill it.

How many times have we genuinely needed a full capacity Ricoh in the eleven years we’ve been there? Two or three occasions I would say.

A larger capacity isn’t a bad thing but neither is a smaller one in my opinion. 15K would be a good start and could be increased over time IF we needed it too.

People talk about finance and surely building a stadium that is too big and therefore more expensive is hardly being prudent, is it? Surely, we should expand if and when we need to and if we can afford it. If not, we’ll be rattling around inside like we are at the Ricoh.

I don’t think I’m being pessimistic as opposed to optimistic by saying this. You say build it all now as we might be in the Prem. Yes, we might, and we might not. We’ve spent shedloads of cash we couldn’t afford in the past and look where it has got us.

You’re right it has to be expandable and indications are it would be, so I really can’t understand all the negativity. Then again, if it wasn’t the capacity, it would be something else.

Isn't your ambition to get into the PL and have a stadium that will support our potential fan base ?
Or are you of the Grendel school of thought where 15,000 pay double the price ?
I suspect like a few it's get away from the Wasps stadium at all costs.
Would you like to see details on ownership, access to incomes etc or doesn't it matter ?

The Ricoh has never been used in the PL during this increased football fan base age so it is an unknown.

Otis · May 19, 2016

torchomatic said:
Yes, I was being ridiculous, of course. However, I also think comments along the lines of “if the stadium isn’t at least 30K then it shows a lack of ambition” are equally ridiculous.

This could, potentially, be a great move for Coventry City yet fans are already moaning as it is smaller than the Ricoh; you know the ground where stands have to be closed because we can’t fill it.

How many times have we genuinely needed a full capacity Ricoh in the eleven years we’ve been there? Two or three occasions I would say.

A larger capacity isn’t a bad thing but neither is a smaller one in my opinion. 15K would be a good start and could be increased over time IF we needed it too..

Ah, this is where I digress. I'm not talking about if we NEEDED it to, I am talking about if it is even possible to. And then to what degree is it possible.

I am not saying build a 30,000 seater stadium now, I am simply saying we need something that has the potential to be expandable in the future.

In an ideal world, 20,000 now, expandable up to 30,000.

torchomatic · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
Isn't your ambition to get into the PL and have a stadium that will support our potential fan base ?
Or are you of the Grendel school of thought where 15,000 pay double the price ?
I suspect like a few it's get away from the Wasps stadium at all costs.
Would you like to see details on ownership, access to incomes etc or doesn't it matter ?

Of course I want to get to the PL and a stadium to support that. However, we are not in the Premier yet and it might take a good few years to get there. I don't think there's any harm in having a smaller stadium to start off with as long as there is room to expand.

I suspect like a few it's stay and pay Wasps rent without the club ever progressing, as there's little chance of that if we stay at the Ricoh.

I bet your favourite band is Status Quo. That's what you seem to be in favour of.

torchomatic · May 19, 2016

Captain Dart said:
1970, the Butts & surrounding area is low lying and quite close to the river, so drainage becomes a bigger issue should the pitch be lowered, this is simple engineering. I'm not saying it is impossible but I'm pointing out it make it more expensive.

Well, that's it then. Disaster waiting to happen.

martcov · May 19, 2016

torchomatic said:
Well, that's it then. Disaster waiting to happen.

yeah right. 90000 stadium, disaster waiting to happen...... you have just been pulled for being ridiculous and not having answers...it seems it is becoming a habit...

torchomatic · May 19, 2016

martcov said:
yeah right. 90000 stadium, disaster waiting to happen...... you have just been pulled for being ridiculous and not having answers...it seems it is becoming a habit...

No, I was being ridiculous and I said I was. See #722

Then again, I'm not one of those who is desperately trying to put attack the whole plan like you and others, by showing floods from 1970, for example.

italiahorse · May 19, 2016

torchomatic said:
Of course I want to get to the PL and a stadium to support that. However, we are not in the Premier yet and it might take a good few years to get there. I don't think there's any harm in having a smaller stadium to start off with as long as there is room to expand.

I suspect like a few it's stay and pay Wasps rent without the club ever progressing, as there's little chance of that if we stay at the Ricoh.

I bet your favourite band is Status Quo. That's what you seem to be in favour of.

It's actually Led Zeppelin. Which can be translated as Lead Zeppelin with the feasibility of this project.
However if it's shown to be a better option financially than the Ricoh and it can be expanded later to 30,000 when we need it, I'm in.
Details like who owns it, what rental we will pay and what access to incomes comes into it.
After all we don't want Sisu to cut our nose off to spite their face.

However common sense dictates that the area is too small, the residents are too vocal and the Council only need follow current planning rules and it's not feasible.

chiefdave · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
Isn't your ambition to get into the PL and have a stadium that will support our potential fan base ?

What if that isn't an option. What if the options are stay at the Ricoh as a lower end Championship team at best or move and be a top end Championship / lower end PL team?

Why would you dismiss out of hand an alternative to staying at the Ricoh?

chiefdave · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
However if it's shown to be a better option financially than the Ricoh and it can be expanded later to 30,000 when we need it, I'm in.

If it was 25K as has been mentioned by CRFC but is a better option for the club financially than the Ricoh would you not support it?

martcov · May 19, 2016

torchomatic said:
No, I was being ridiculous and I said I was. See #722

Then again, I'm not one of those who is desperately trying to put attack the whole plan like you and others, by showing floods from 1970, for example.

I have never shown a flood.... it's getting worse. There was a train disaster near there years ago though, my grandmother told me about it. If I find a photo I'll send it. Attacking the plan by asking how it is going to work? Yes, then I am.

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