Butts park arena? (30 Viewers)

Covstu · May 19, 2016

Ironically the size of Highfield Road was about right circa 23-24k. We only used to get 23k plus about 3 times a season when we were in the premier league so not sure why we would need 30k+. I think if we continued to have a steady support i.e. 15-18k now then they maybe having different discussions completely on our 'ambitions' but the fact of the matter is we will never get the numbers that we need to regularly fill the Ricoh (was it 21k average 1st year?). I liked the way MK Dons built their stadium, they planned for success and left space to be built accordingly however were always realistic.

oldfiver · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
It's actually Led Zeppelin. Which can be translated as Lead Zeppelin with the feasibility of this project.
However if it's shown to be a better option financially than the Ricoh and it can be expanded later to 30,000 when we need it, I'm in.
Details like who owns it, what rental we will pay and what access to incomes comes into it.
After all we don't want Sisu to cut our nose off to spite their face.

However common sense dictates that the area is too small, the residents are too vocal and the Council only need follow current planning rules and it's not feasible.

Why 30000 and not 25000? If they had said 30000 you would have said 35000
If common sense had prevailed we would not be having this discussion.
As to planning it already exists for that site - nothing new.
Feasibility - can we see your figures to support your view?

italiahorse · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
surely most city fans would queue up if city played there?

.... and only half would get tickets ?

martcov · May 19, 2016

By the way, I was at a presentation by Richardson about Arena 2000. I held the model with the retracting pitch in my hands. I loved it. 40000 stadium, competing with 'the likes of Barcelona' - his words. I never questioned it. I assumed the club had done a feasability study and that the finances were in order. So, I know where Torch is coming from. I am now older and a bit wiser. I tend to ask how is this going to work, rather than put the critics down as moaners etc..

Nick · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
.... and only half would get tickets ?

It depends if we are playing Chelsea or something I guess. Maybe a new stadium should be massive so once every 3 or 4 years it gets filled, the rest they have to close off stands when fans can't be arsed.

If we moved there tomorrow then it would be ok.

torchomatic · May 19, 2016

martcov said:
I have never shown a flood.... it's getting worse. There was a train disaster near there years ago though, my grandmother told me about it. If I find a photo I'll send it. Attacking the plan by asking how it is going to work? Yes, then I am.

FFS. Never said YOU did show a flood.

martcov · May 19, 2016

oldfiver said:
Why 30000 and not 25000? If they had said 30000 you would have said 35000
If common sense had prevailed we would not be having this discussion.
As to planning it already exists for that site - nothing new.
Feasibility - can we see your figures to support your view?

Planning for a Rugby Club. Feasibility... no doubt the figures will be revealed. It is up to SISU and CRFC to show that it is feasible - not fans on a forum. We can only guess and ask for clarification.

chiefdave · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
.... and only half would get tickets ?

A 25K stadium could easily mean 22,500 tickets for home fans, compared to 26,000 at the Ricoh. Not sure a difference of 3,500 equates to half the fanbase not being able to get tickets.

martcov · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
It depends if we are playing Chelsea or something I guess. Maybe a new stadium should be massive so once every 3 or 4 years it gets filled, the rest they have to close off stands when fans can't be arsed.

If we moved there tomorrow then it would be ok.

I thought we needed a multi purpose stadium with revenue bringing facilities. To do that we need a certain size or some flexibility. No-one has confirmed what facilities are planned. That would be the main point - not just the 23 football days a year.

torchomatic · May 19, 2016

chiefdave said:
A 25K stadium could easily mean 22,500 tickets for home fans, compared to 26,000 at the Ricoh. Not sure a difference of 3,500 equates to half the fanbase not being able to get tickets.

And the only reason the away ticket allocation is so high is that we can't get enough of our own fans in.

chiefdave · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
It depends if we are playing Chelsea or something I guess. Maybe a new stadium should be massive so once every 3 or 4 years it gets filled, the rest they have to close off stands when fans can't be arsed.

Exactly, the Ricoh was too small when we played Chelsea in the cup and when we had the JPT final. Don't recall a clamour for it to be knocked down and a bigger stadium built.

Covstu · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
It depends if we are playing Chelsea or something I guess. Maybe a new stadium should be massive so once every 3 or 4 years it gets filled, the rest they have to close off stands when fans can't be arsed.

If we moved there tomorrow then it would be ok.

Yep certainly a 'where were you when we were shit' moment. Why cater for people who are not going to be regular payers....

martcov · May 19, 2016

torchomatic said:
FFS. Never said YOU did show a flood.

'like you and others, by showing floods from 1970, for example.' A bit ambiguous then...

SkyBlueZack · May 19, 2016

The whole PL thing. We all want to get there. In an ideal world. I'd love us to win the league and champs league in an ideal world. Problem is, we don't live in an ideal world. The whole we were there for 30 years. Granted. Does that give us a right to be back there? No. When people say that do they consider other teams who may think the same? Leeds, Forest, Fulham, Blackburn, Wolves, Reading, QPR, Birmingham, Cardiff, Ipswich, Derby. Not adding the relegated three this year or the promoted three. Other clubs are expanding such as Bolton, they have also just been relegated, can't see that expansion happening anytime soon. If people's problem is the attendance and believe it shows a lack of ambition, we have problems. Bigger problems than Wasps, the council or SISU. We are where we are. We have no divine right to be in the PL or Championship. The club needs foundations. A stadium partnership with the local rugby team sharing income and assisting each other in stabilising the present and planning for the future is a start. More is required certainly. Details of cost etc as people have said but it would be a great move for both CRFC and CCFC if done properly. And yes I will agree again that it sticks two fingers up at the council and Wasps. It does this because although SISU played their part in this sorry mess, CRFC didn't. They have been hampered by the local council for no apparent reason. They like us fans have just been collateral damage in a sorry saga between inflated egos. It would be absolutely brilliant if CRFC got back to the Premiership. I went to a few games this season and if things come together next season I believe there is a strong chance of a promotion challenge to the Championship. Hopefully with CCFC also securing their place in the football championship. I urge people to support both CCFC and CRFC next season in their respective challenges for promotion. Let's help make our sporting teams successful. Let's be able to stand back and watch if they are and smile with pride that A they have achieved success and B that we have more than played our part. Going a bit ideal world myself now but you get the picture

Captain Dart · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
It depends if we are playing Chelsea or something I guess. Maybe a new stadium should be massive so once every 3 or 4 years it gets filled, the rest they have to close off stands when fans can't be arsed.

If we moved there tomorrow then it would be ok.

The problem with the Ricoh is that the average crowd is too small but there is no seamless way of making the capacity seem smaller on those occasions.
One would hope designers would have learned their lesson and build in a way of dealing with the problem. I think MK have a strategy of closing down a top tier?

stupot07 · May 19, 2016

chiefdave said:
Exactly, the Ricoh was too small when we played Chelsea in the cup and when we had the JPT final. Don't recall a clamour for it to be knocked down and a bigger stadium built.

No, there was just lots of moaning about why sth get first dibs.....

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

oldfiver · May 19, 2016

martcov said:
Planning for a Rugby Club. Feasibility... no doubt the figures will be revealed. It is up to SISU and CRFC to show that it is feasible - not fans on a forum. We can only guess and ask for clarification.

What's the point of guessing? I assume the project will be tailored to be "feasible"
That is feasible to all parties or by definition, it will not be!

Grendel · May 19, 2016

oldfiver said:
What's the point of guessing? I assume the project will be tailored to be "feasible"
That is feasible to all parties or by definition, it will not be!

Well this is the thing about needing to see a business plan. It's stupid and a distraction.

If a shop I go to closed down and moved to another part of the city I don't expect to see a detailed justification of the decision.

The owners make a judgement - they are the owners and all the risk is theirs.

italiahorse · May 19, 2016

chiefdave said:
Exactly, the Ricoh was too small when we played Chelsea in the cup and when we had the JPT final. Don't recall a clamour for it to be knocked down and a bigger stadium built.

You can't ignore the fact that 30,000 seems to be the target for most clubs that are below it.
It feels about right to me. Restricting us to 15,000 at the Butts should not be a plan.
I'm embarrassed when I see the news reports on TV.
If the club has no ambition for the future I will support from afar.
SISU take note and I advise you check with the fans first.

Nick · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
You can't ignore the fact that 30,000 seems to be the target for most clubs that are below it.
It feels about right to me. Restricting us to 15,000 at the Butts should not be a plan.
I'm embarrassed when I see the news reports on TV.
If the club has no ambition for the future I will support from afar.
SISU take note and I advise you check with the fans first.

Check with which fans? the ones who go week in week out including me and you or ones who will only turn up when we play Chelsea and it's a fiver?

italiahorse · May 19, 2016

Grendel said:
Well this is the thing about needing to see a business plan. It's stupid and a distraction.

If a shop I go to closed down and moved to another part of the city I don't expect to see a detailed justification of the decision.

The owners make a judgement - they are the owners and all the risk is theirs.

Correct and they would check with their customers first to see whether they would support the move.
"Build it and they will come" and "With results I see 6,000 but without we could drop to as low as 3,000" is not checking with fans.

oldskyblue58 · May 19, 2016

Chiefdave - I haven't got the photo shop thing (or skills) but how does the Bournemouth ground fit/look superimposed on the BPA? That's a planned similar sort of size to the start capacity

Think we have to account for the external walkways though ...... people, supplies etc need to have good access, and emergency evacuation

italiahorse · May 19, 2016

Nick said:
Check with which fans? the ones who go week in week out including me and you or ones who will only turn up when we play Chelsea and it's a fiver?

The fans that are required to make this a successful club. To that respect all the fans that fill the stadium when there is a product to see.

oldfiver · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
Correct and they would check with their customers first to see whether they would support the move.
"Build it and they will come" and "With results I see 6,000 but without we could drop to as low as 3,000" is not checking with fans.

How many major stores ask their customers first before moving a store? Deluded!

oldfiver · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
You can't ignore the fact that 30,000 seems to be the target for most clubs that are below it.
It feels about right to me. Restricting us to 15,000 at the Butts should not be a plan.
I'm embarrassed when I see the news reports on TV.
If the club has no ambition for the future I will support from afar.
SISU take note and I advise you check with the fans first.

It is not restricted though is it? Read past the first few words!

chiefdave · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
I'm embarrassed when I see the news reports on TV.

I find this more embarrassing

SkyBlueZack · May 19, 2016

I find it fucking shameful. An iconic man with a London Rugby clubs badge behind him. A man who did so much for our club and football having a franchise club badge hanging in the background. The fact people will excuse it or blame SISU is woeful. Some things are of more importance and significance than SISU and CCC. Jimmy Hill is certainly one of them.

chiefdave · May 19, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Chiefdave - I haven't got the photo shop thing (or skills) but how does the Bournemouth ground fit/look superimposed on the BPA? That's a planned similar sort of size to the start capacity

Here you go

martcov · May 19, 2016

Grendel said:
Well this is the thing about needing to see a business plan. It's stupid and a distraction.

If a shop I go to closed down and moved to another part of the city I don't expect to see a detailed justification of the decision.

The owners make a judgement - they are the owners and all the risk is theirs.

We are not talking about a shop and we are not talking about moving to an exsisting building. We are Talking about millions of Pounds, of council permission and use of council transport systems for thousands of extra cars and crowds of people. Someone at sometime will want to see plans.

italiahorse · May 19, 2016

oldfiver said:
It is not restricted though is it? Read past the first few words!

As you say it's just words.
Never in a million years can you squeeze a real stadium in there.
It's deflection by Sisu away from reality and I refuse to follow.

covcity4life · May 19, 2016

council dont want the hassle but dont wanna admit its all their fault.

torchomatic · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
It's deflection by Sisu away from reality and I refuse to follow.

Thank fuck for that.

SkyBlueZack · May 19, 2016

italiahorse said:
It's deflection by Sisu away from reality and I refuse to follow.

Because you can't get there by walking? Or that another hedge fund now has your heart?

oldskyblue58 · May 19, 2016

chiefdave said:
Here you go
View attachment 5215

Cheers , looks like that works better than the other two? More external room left

fernandopartridge · May 19, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Cheers , looks like that works better than the other two? More external room left

But how are we going to steal it from Bournemouth?

Butts park arena? (30 Viewers)

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