Butts park arena? (56 Viewers)

Travs · May 22, 2016

The discussion does seem to have moved on from arguing about the potential Butts capacity....

However I'd just say that in my view, the notion that in the premier league we would need a 30k capacity stadium every week is a bit far fetched.

Should we get to the premier league, I think that apart from the opening couple of matches, and against the big teams, we would soon be down to 18-20k after a few losses.

Unfortunately the Coventry public and fair weather fans are not that committed to turn up every week unless we are sweeping all before us, even in the premier league I think this would hold true.

Personally I think talk of premier league is utterly ridiculous, but would relish the chance of being back in the championship with all those derbies. Whilst last season was ultimately a decent one on the pitch, I think it was a massive missed opportunity to get in the championship with the likes of Villa, and I fear that by the time we do get back up there, Villa could quite possibly be back in the premier (athough they could quite as easily go in the other direction).

skybluetony176 · May 22, 2016

Rusty Trombone said:
Not necessarily, I imagine it will go to the highest bidder.

That's us screwed then. SISU don't do bidding

torchomatic · May 22, 2016

Otis said:
Shame you are so negative, Torch. Wait til CC4L gets on here.

If you don't believe it possible we can make the Championship in 3 years, then so be it and if you don't think it possible we can make the Premier League in 10, then, oh well, not much else to say is there.

No-one is saying we WILL do it, but to deny it is possible is quite sad I would say.

Now, I find this post strange. Otis has the cheek to call me negative. Yet, I'm one of the ones who wants us to go to BPA. Wants us to have a nice ground in the centre of the city. A ground that will be identifiable with not only CCFC but also CRFC another genuine team from Coventry. I don't want to settle for the status quo, shrug my shoulders and say "yeah but, it's better at the Ricoh" yet can't come up with a reason better than it has a lot of seats.

On one hand we get that; attendances are dropping, team is poor, signings are poor, money is being pocketed. On the other we are told that starting off with a smaller capacity than we currently have now is lacking ambition. Negative as what will happen when we get promotion to the Championship and then the Premiership? Where are all our many thousands of fans going to sit?

Personally, negative is saying it will never happen. Negative is saying it shouldn't happen. Negative is saying the roads can't cope. Negative is saying there'll be nowhere to park. Negative is saying you'll never go to a new stadium if it is out of the city, yet dismiss the idea when a site in the very heart of the city is found. Negative is saying "well, there are too many obstacles. Let's not bother, eh?"

Negative is slagging off the idea before it's even got off the ground. For the first time in years there is talk of moving somewhere with our own identity. Coventry Sporting Clubs in one place. For the first time in years I personally feel positive about the future of my football club.

Sky Blue Kid said:
Non starter.

italiahorse said:
I feel sorry for those that believe it and actually run with it !!

italiahorse said:
It's all deflection by Sisu and the usual skittles are yet again lining up and enthusiastically slobbering waiting for Sisu to throw them a ball.

Buster said:
Just seen the piece on bbc Midlands . Pictures of the Ricoh and then on to the Butts stadium !
Embarrassing .

The Lurker said:
Too many obstacles in the way including funding the proposed stadium.

And I could go on. Those are negative. Negative is staying at the Ricoh where we don't earn enough cash to progress. Where we are stifled by our landlords. In a ground that lacks identity for Coventry City.

If you want positives Otis then get fans to go to the Ricoh and fill it out week after week. If we had 20K plus attendances week in week out regardless of results then that would show SISU that starting at 15K wouldn't be good enough. Ain't gonna happen though is it? As a whole we don't do the supporting through thick and thin thing. Nah, we leave that to Leicester, Norwich, Sheffield United and the like. We'll just moan instead.

I never said anywhere that we WOULDN'T do it, that we wouldn't get promoted. I was being sarcastic, I was having a go at the new phenomenon that suddenly SISU are going to be brilliant owners and before you know it we'll be up there in the promised land. Fans can't have it both ways.

You then get the "where's the money going to come from", "...club saddled with debt" comments, etc. And at the same time those who moan about the club being saddled with debt tell us that anything less than a 30K stadium shows lack of ambition. Again, you can't have it all ways. You can't have a massive stadium, full of expensive players without the money coming from somewhere. Who's going to pay for it? It certainly isn't the missing 10/15K at the Ricoh.

Dismissing something before it's had the chance to happen. That's sad, Otis.

Deleted member 5849 · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Houses or our brew stadium at 40k capacity plus a training/academy set up. Also room for parking. Aston Martin flagged up fir it who pulled out. So how about putting both sides to the test. See who really is bluffing?

I've got no problem at all with pushing for various sites. This wouldn't be my first choice but yeah, on the face of it seems reasonable as one to suggest.

Sky Blue Kid · May 22, 2016

torchomatic said:
Now, I find this post strange. Otis has the cheek to call me negative. Yet, I'm one of the ones who wants us to go to BPA. Wants us to have a nice ground in the centre of the city. A ground that will be identifiable with not only CCFC but also CRFC another genuine team from Coventry. I don't want to settle for the status quo, shrug my shoulders and say "yeah but, it's better at the Ricoh" yet can't come up with a reason better than it has a lot of seats.

On one hand we get that; attendances are dropping, team is poor, signings are poor, money is being pocketed. On the other we are told that starting off with a smaller capacity than we currently have now is lacking ambition. Negative as what will happen when we get promotion to the Championship and then the Premiership? Where are all our many thousands of fans going to sit?

Personally, negative is saying it will never happen. Negative is saying it shouldn't happen. Negative is saying the roads can't cope. Negative is saying there'll be nowhere to park. Negative is saying you'll never go to a new stadium if it is out of the city, yet dismiss the idea when a site in the very heart of the city is found. Negative is saying "well, there are too many obstacles. Let's not bother, eh?"

Negative is slagging off the idea before it's even got off the ground. For the first time in years there is talk of moving somewhere with our own identity. Coventry Sporting Clubs in one place. For the first time in years I personally feel positive about the future of my football club.

And I could go on. Those are negative. Negative is staying at the Ricoh where we don't earn enough cash to progress. Where we are stifled by our landlords. In a ground that lacks identity for Coventry City.

If you want positives Otis then get fans to go to the Ricoh and fill it out week after week. If we had 20K plus attendances week in week out regardless of results then that would show SISU that starting at 15K wouldn't be good enough. Ain't gonna happen though is it? As a whole we don't do the supporting through thick and thin thing. Nah, we leave that to Leicester, Norwich, Sheffield United and the like. We'll just moan instead.

I never said anywhere that we WOULDN'T do it, that we wouldn't get promoted. I was being sarcastic, I was having a go at the new phenomenon that suddenly SISU are going to be brilliant owners and before you know it we'll be up there in the promised land. Fans can't have it both ways.

You then get the "where's the money going to come from", "...club saddled with debt" comments, etc. And at the same time those who moan about the club being saddled with debt tell us that anything less than a 30K stadium shows lack of ambition. Again, you can't have it all ways. You can't have a massive stadium, full of expensive players without the money coming from somewhere. Who's going to pay for it? It certainly isn't the missing 10/15K at the Ricoh.

Dismissing something before it's had the chance to happen. That's sad, Otis.

It is genuine concern for the future of CCFC that I say it's a "Non starter" Look at what needs to be done without "Rose tinted Spectacles" for once.

torchomatic · May 22, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
It is genuine concern for the future of CCFC that I say it's a "Non starter" Look at what needs to be done without "Rose tinted Spectacles" for once.

No, it's not "genuine concern". You've dismissed it already as a non starter. Bad idea. Never happen.

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Otis · May 22, 2016

torchomatic said:
Now, I find this post strange. Otis has the cheek to call me negative. Yet, I'm one of the ones who wants us to go to BPA. Wants us to have a nice ground in the centre of the city. A ground that will be identifiable with not only CCFC but also CRFC another genuine team from Coventry. I don't want to settle for the status quo, shrug my shoulders and say "yeah but, it's better at the Ricoh" yet can't come up with a reason better than it has a lot of seats.

On one hand we get that; attendances are dropping, team is poor, signings are poor, money is being pocketed. On the other we are told that starting off with a smaller capacity than we currently have now is lacking ambition. Negative as what will happen when we get promotion to the Championship and then the Premiership? Where are all our many thousands of fans going to sit?

Personally, negative is saying it will never happen. Negative is saying it shouldn't happen. Negative is saying the roads can't cope. Negative is saying there'll be nowhere to park. Negative is saying you'll never go to a new stadium if it is out of the city, yet dismiss the idea when a site in the very heart of the city is found. Negative is saying "well, there are too many obstacles. Let's not bother, eh?"

Negative is slagging off the idea before it's even got off the ground. For the first time in years there is talk of moving somewhere with our own identity. Coventry Sporting Clubs in one place. For the first time in years I personally feel positive about the future of my football club.

And I could go on. Those are negative. Negative is staying at the Ricoh where we don't earn enough cash to progress. Where we are stifled by our landlords. In a ground that lacks identity for Coventry City.

If you want positives Otis then get fans to go to the Ricoh and fill it out week after week. If we had 20K plus attendances week in week out regardless of results then that would show SISU that starting at 15K wouldn't be good enough. Ain't gonna happen though is it? As a whole we don't do the supporting through thick and thin thing. Nah, we leave that to Leicester, Norwich, Sheffield United and the like. We'll just moan instead.

I never said anywhere that we WOULDN'T do it, that we wouldn't get promoted. I was being sarcastic, I was having a go at the new phenomenon that suddenly SISU are going to be brilliant owners and before you know it we'll be up there in the promised land. Fans can't have it both ways.

You then get the "where's the money going to come from", "...club saddled with debt" comments, etc. And at the same time those who moan about the club being saddled with debt tell us that anything less than a 30K stadium shows lack of ambition. Again, you can't have it all ways. You can't have a massive stadium, full of expensive players without the money coming from somewhere. Who's going to pay for it? It certainly isn't the missing 10/15K at the Ricoh.

Dismissing something before it's had the chance to happen. That's sad, Otis.

Torch, I was just being very sarcastic. Was just following on from your 90,000 seater stadiums and your in the Premier League quips.

Was just giving you a taste of your own medicine.

Sky Blue Kid · May 22, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
It is genuine concern for the future of CCFC that I say it's a "Non starter" Look at what needs to be done without "Rose tinted Spectacles" for once.

We did get 20k+ at the Ricoh regularly, it was when the fans could blatantly see that SISU had no intentions of backing CCFC where it really matters..On the pitch, that attendances began to dwindle.

torchomatic · May 22, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
We did get 20k+ at the Ricoh regularly, it was when the fans could blatantly see that SISU had no intentions of backing CCFC where it really matters..On the pitch, that attendances began to dwindle.

So if SISU have eroded our support to such a shit level then why do we need a big stadium? You can't have it both ways.

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dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

torchomatic said:
So if SISU have eroded our support to such a shit level then why do we need a big stadium? You can't have it both ways.

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You argue that we need the stadium for SISU to be able to sell the club.
We then get new owners stuck with a 15k stadium that may or may not be extendable to a maximum of 25k.
He can have it both ways he is looking beyond the SISU era.

Deleted member 5849 · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
You argue that we need the stadium for SISU to be able to sell the club.
We then get new owners stuck with a 15k stadium that may or may not be extendable to a maximum of 25k.
He can have it both ways he is looking beyond the SISU era.

Or new owners then have multiple options to pursue.

Otis · May 22, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Or new owners then have multiple options to pursue.

What, like shall we move there? Or shall we move there? Or shall we move there?

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

Otis said:
Torch, I was just being very sarcastic. Was just following on from your 90,000 seater stadiums and your in the Premier League quips.

Was just giving you a taste of your own medicine.

It's a lazy way to debate just come out with extremes that no one has said.

Deflecting away from what they are actually saying is quite a good point.

It's like when Grendel goes " so what you are saying is....."

Then says something riddiculous that you never said

It's quite funny really

Sky Blue Kid · May 22, 2016

I've followed CCFC Through the bad times, but stayed strong because of no matter how badly we played and got mullered on a lot of occasions by your Man utd's and Newcastles,(Regular occurence) the owners tried their best by bringing in decent players. So I deffo can't be called a "Glory Hunter" or "Fair weather fan" 34 years of struggle in the Premier league proves that. It's the garbage these shower of s**t owners produce to the fans(A lot of you swallow it too) that told me "Enough is enough" At least previous owners(Good and bad) stepped aside if they saw they couldn't do right by CCFC.

Deleted member 5849 · May 22, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
At least previous owners(Good and bad) stepped aside if they saw they couldn't do right by CCFC.

Robinson and McGinnity didn't. They removed Richardson and then preferred to run the club into the ground on the offchance of a lucky escape, rather than stepping aside.

torchomatic · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
You argue that we need the stadium for SISU to be able to sell the club.
We then get new owners stuck with a 15k stadium that may or may not be extendable to a maximum of 25k.
He can have it both ways he is looking beyond the SISU era.

Then he should be fully behind the idea of BPA then as that is the best chance we have of getting rid of them.

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Warwickhunt · May 22, 2016

The only thing the Council can block is Planning permission (and that can only be done with good reason and not spite fullness as some would have believe) the ground lease is locked into a 125 year contract and cannot be changed as far as I can tell and does not have a clause in it restricting its type of sporting use.

torchomatic · May 22, 2016

Warwickhunt said:
The only thing the Council can block is Planning permission (and that can only be done with good reason and not spite fullness as some would have believe) the ground lease is locked into a 125 year contract and cannot be changed as far as I can tell and does not have a clause in it restricting it type of sporting use.

And the Ricoh has recently added another 200 years to its lease so not as cut and dried as some would have us believe.

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Sky Blue Kid · May 22, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Robinson and McGinnity didn't. They removed Richardson and then preferred to run the club into the ground on the offchance of a lucky escape, rather than stepping aside.

You seemed to have conveniently forgotten to add the names of Joy Sepalla, and Tim Fisher who in my eyes are the "Devil incarnate" to that little list of yours NW

Nick · May 22, 2016

Otis said:
Be great if someone had actually said that, Torch, but in reality of course no-one has.

The talk of expansion is down the line WHEN it is needed. As long as there is scope to expand enough, 15,000 is fine for now.

You carry on twisting though and reading between the lines. It's what City fans do best.

Warwickhunt said:
The only thing the Council can block is Planning permission (and that can only be done with good reason and not spite fullness as some would have believe) the ground lease is locked into a 125 year contract and cannot be changed as far as I can tell and does not have a clause in it restricting its type of sporting use.

Let's face it, it is all well and good the council saying "We can't block it" but if they don't want it there it won't happen.

Deleted member 5849 · May 22, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
You seemed to have conveniently forgotten to add the names of Joy Sepalla, and Tim Fisher who in my eyes are the "Devil incarnate" to that little list of yours NW

You said previous owners stepped aside, I was pointing out they didn't.

torchomatic · May 22, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
You seemed to have conveniently forgotten to add the names of Joy Sepalla, and Tim Fisher who in my eyes are the "Devil incarnate" to that little list of yours NW

That's not what he was saying.

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Sky Blue Kid · May 22, 2016

torchomatic said:
That's not what he was saying.

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Really?... Calling out s**t owners from the past shouldn't include s**t owners from the present then?

Deleted member 5849 · May 22, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Really?... Calling out s**t owners from the past shouldn't include s**t owners from the present then?

It's almost like I replied to the point you made, and you chose to then completely ignore it.

torchomatic · May 22, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's almost like I replied to the point you made, and you chose to then completely ignore it.

Almost?

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Nick · May 22, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's almost like I replied to the point you made, and you chose to then completely ignore it.

That's how it happens!

Sky Blue Kid · May 22, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's almost like I replied to the point you made, and you chose to then completely ignore it.

Ok I get your point, but what about the 125 years worth of owners that were actually good for CCFC then? I think my point is very rellevant, without splitting hairs like you seem to be doing NW

Sky Blue Kid · May 22, 2016

I 'm challenging you to name other owners from the previous ones that were rank, outright s**t then NW

Grendel · May 22, 2016

Otis said:
Torch, I was just being very sarcastic. Was just following on from your 90,000 seater stadiums and your in the Premier League quips.

Was just giving you a taste of your own medicine.

You admit you like the Ricoh and we need a 25,000 capacity when we've tou knowledge only had that many CCFC fans in the stadium 2 or 3 times in a decade.

Otis · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
It's a lazy way to debate just come out with extremes that no one has said.

Deflecting away from what they are actually saying is quite a good point.

It's like when Grendel goes " so what you are saying is....."

Then says something riddiculous that you never said

It's quite funny really

I find it very funny.

No-one has talked of massive stadiums. No-one has talked in terms of an immediate return to the Premier.

And on the flip side of the coin, which is even more hilarious, is the fact that though the roads cannot cope around the Butts with a 25,000 crowd, we apparently shouldn't be saying that. Apparently facts are negativity!

It is seemingly entirely wrong to say the roads can't cope and a rebuild/rejigging of access roads would be in order.

I find many of the views on this particular thread incredibly OTT, blinkered thinking and the anti Wasp/get away at any cost seems very prevalent from some.

Next to no-one has said no to the Butts. But just like other 'identified' locations, people are questioning and quite sensibly questioning if it can be a reality.

I am convinced the opposition to a 25,000 seater stadium at the Butts would be absolutely huge and it would be a no goer. For it to work it would take many extra millions to sink the pitch and alter the road system and add in access roads.

Logical, reasoned, factual thinking is NOT negativity.

I was merely playing Torch at his own game as a joke, but he seemingly took it the wrong the way.

Would have assumed he would be fully aware of my level of sarcasm by now!

Otis · May 22, 2016

Grendel said:
You admit you like the Ricoh and we need a 25,000 capacity when we've tou knowledge only had that many CCFC fans in the stadium 2 or 3 times in a decade.

Yes, but as I have said well over eleventy billion times (eleventy billion and twelve I think), this is a decade of miserable, abject failure.

Why do people keep talking like we are never going to have any success?

No promotions, no play-offs, pretty much perpetual struggle since 2001 and yet people keep only talking in terms of an elongated failure.

We have success the crowds will grow. That is the most bleeding obvious statement anyone could ever make.

Stop looking backwards and start looking forwards.

Many apologies if that is too negative for you.

Just about every argument about not having 25,000 plus as a stadium has been based on our failure of the last 15 years.

Grendel · May 22, 2016

Otis said:
Yes, but as I have said well over eleventh billions times (eleventh billion and twelve I think), this is a decade of miserable, abject failure.

Why do people keep talking like we are never going to have any success?

No promotions, no play-offs, pretty much perpetual struggle since 2001 and yet people keep only talking in terms of an elongated failure.

We have success the crowds will grow. That is the most bleeding obvious statement anyone could ever make.

Stop looking backwards and start looking forwards.

Many apologies if that is too negative for you.

Just about every argument about not having 25,000 plus as a stadium has been based on our failure of the last 15 years.

So you think every club with a population of say 250,000 plus should build a stadium to hold 25 - 30,000 just in case it gets success in the next 10 to 20 years?

We are a million years from the premier league and wouldn't get that many for loads of games in that.

skybluetony176 · May 22, 2016

torchomatic said:
So if SISU have eroded our support to such a shit level then why do we need a big stadium? You can't have it both ways.

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Because as everyone reminds you when you dare say something bad about SISU they won't be here forever. Yet some clearly want their legacy to be hamstringing the next owners with an inadequate stadium for growth on a it will be alright, fingers crossed approached to further development of the BPA when actually if you look at it in any detail it's actually going to be very difficult to unlikely that it will ever happen.

All most of us who you think don't want it just want to be sure that if we do move it's for the right reasons.

Nick · May 22, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Because as everyone reminds you when you dare say something bad about SISU they won't be here forever. Yet some clearly want their legacy to be hamstringing the next owners with an inadequate stadium for growth on a it will be alright, fingers crossed approached to further development of the BPA when actually if you look at it in any detail it's actually going to be very difficult to unlikely that it will ever happen.

All most of us who you think don't want it just want to be sure that if we do move it's for the right reasons.

So if they go while we are at the Ricoh what does that leave the potential new owners and what makes people think there will be a long queue of potential owners after we saw people put off last time by the stadium situation?

martcov · May 22, 2016

Otis said:
Yes, but as I have said well over eleventy billion times (eleventy billion and twelve I think), this is a decade of miserable, abject failure.

Why do people keep talking like we are never going to have any success?

No promotions, no play-offs, pretty much perpetual struggle since 2001 and yet people keep only talking in terms of an elongated failure.

We have success the crowds will grow. That is the most bleeding obvious statement anyone could ever make.

Stop looking backwards and start looking forwards.

Many apologies if that is too negative for you.

Just about every argument about not having 25,000 plus as a stadium has been based on our failure of the last 15 years.

It is amazing that you get classed as negative for stating obvious draw backs to the BPA, when your whole stance is positive- you assume that the bad times will end and that we will get back to the PL and that we will get bigger crowds. In actual fact, your outlook is far more positive than your critics such as Torch. I'm with you all the way for taking the long term aims into account and not commiting too much at the BPA - although we may be forced into a short term commitment.

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