Butts park arena? (39 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · May 22, 2016

Nick said:
So if they go while we are at the Ricoh what does that leave the potential new owners and what makes people think there will be a long queue of potential owners after we saw people put off last time by the stadium situation?

It leaves them options. We will be renting tennants at the Ricoh so moving on will be relatively easy. If we're stuck in a partnership at the BPA stuck with a capacity of 15K and no prospect of increasing that what options will that leave new owners with ambition? Are CRFC going to buy us out of that partnership so we can move on? Could they afford to? I'm guessing no, that's why they're interested in going in on a joint venture with SISU. Can't do it on their own so need a partner.

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

Potential Pros and Cons

Pros

Near the city centre again, like the good old days.
Our own stadium, better for finances.
A partnership with Coventry Rugby Club helps with the local identity.
Easier for more people to get to, so should increase numbers
Much Better Atmosphere
Good for regeneration of that part of the City
Might make the club sellable
Might be able to have a decent ticket office and shop.
Better for public transport railway and buses just a short walk.

Cons

Potentially a location that will never get planning permission. We could be embroiled for years in battles over planning permission. Where will we be based during this time, if it goes past 2 years?
We will need help from CCC whom we continue to antagonise.
15k starting capacity is not enough when we were in talks with Rugby Council it was 18k what has changed?
25k total potential capacity will not be sufficient if we ever get to where I would expect us all to want to get to.
How will we fund the stadium expansions?
How quickly will the expansions occur, next season we could be in the Championship. Will we be still building a 15k stadium then? Will we need a few season of demand outstripping supply before we get an expansion.
Will we be embroiled in more planning battles every time we try to go for an expansion.
Will a 25k capacity Stadium (limit) put off potential buyers.
What's happened to the idea of building our own training facility and academy
What will happen with the academy
No parking

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

Grendel said:
So you think every club with a population of say 250,000 plus should build a stadium to hold 25 - 30,000 just in case it gets success in the next 10 to 20 years?

We are a million years from the premier league and wouldn't get that many for loads of games in that.

Ha ha
There it is!!!!!!

"So you........... (Followed by a riddiculous statement you never made)

Otis · May 22, 2016

Grendel said:
So you think every club with a population of say 250,000 plus should build a stadium to hold 25 - 30,000 just in case it gets success in the next 10 to 20 years?

We are a million years from the premier league and wouldn't get that many for loads of games in that.

I think we may well get more in the Championship as it stands.

If we had have gone up, I think we would have had well over 20,000 for Birmingham, Wolves, Villa, Newcastle and then very decent crowds for Leeds and Forest.

Brylowes · May 22, 2016

I really don't know why but I get the impression Nick, Dave, Torch, et al are happy to stay where
we are (not Ricoh) in a shit league, getting shit crowds with shit owners ,and not aspiring to
anything.
If this move goes ahead I can see us playing at BPA with a couple of temporary stands for years
to come while we listen to empty promises about what there going to build.
And the court cases rumble on and on and on.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 22, 2016

I'm surprised with all the negativity on here, I guess our fans have suffered so much we just don't believe anything good is possible anymore.

If we're going to move from the Ricoh it has to be on two conditions for me. One is that we will own our own stadium, the second is that the new location is in the city centre.

Yes maybe 15,000 is not a lot to start with, but we actually only got above that a couple of times this season. Moving up to 25,000 would be enough for the championship, and if we ever (in a million years) got to the premier league then if you take into consideration the Ricoh with the crowd segregation, you'd be down to about 29-30k anyway. Just how many times have we had that many fans at a game in the history of the club? That is also, only 4-5k less than what they are proposing for the Butts. Would you be happy to lose that in return for having our own stadium in the city centre? I would.

As for car parking, did we have any at Highfield Road? Did anyone give a fuck then? The roads won't be as congested as people think because the stadium will be in the city centre. Lots of people will walk, take the bus, take the train. The people that need to drive can use park and ride or other city centre parking.

The soul of the club can be born again, and I personally can't see how a move to the Butts can be a bad thing at all.

If the land isn't big enough for four full stands (you would need to tilt the pitch round as it is anyway) then they should build a safe standing terrace behind one of the goals for 4K on the basis that they could agree a safe standing trial with the football league. I've been to a few Bundesligsa games and it's the best experience I've ever had football wise. If the rowdy Celtic fans can have it, why can't we?

Nick · May 22, 2016

Brylowes said:
I really don't know why but I get the impression Nick, Dave, Torch, et al are happy to stay where
we are (not Ricoh) in a shit league, getting shit crowds with shit owners ,and not aspiring to
anything.
If this move goes ahead I can see us playing at BPA with a couple of temporary stands for years
to come while we listen to empty promises about what there going to build.
And the court cases rumble on and on and on.

It's just being realistic isn't it, rather then what if we are in premier league or top of championship.

I can see us getting promoted as is and without a mega rich owner we would be mid table championship at the very most.

I think it's more fan expectation, on one hand you say you think the club is slowly dying then have issues with people being realistic.

skybluetony176 · May 22, 2016

Nick said:
It's just being realistic isn't it, rather then what if we are in premier league or top of championship.

I can see us getting promoted as is and without a mega rich owner we would be mid table championship at the very most.

I think it's more fan expectation, on one hand you say you think the club is slowly dying then have issues with people being realistic.

Realistically if we're stuck in a 15k stadium with no prospect of expansion we ain't going to get to the premier league ever. Unless we fall on a multi billionaire with ambitions of doing a Bournemouth with us.

Nick · May 22, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Realistically if we're stuck in a 15k stadium with no prospect of expansion we ain't going to get to the premier league ever. Unless we fall on a multi billionaire with ambitions of doing a Bournemouth with us.

We aren't ever going to get there without one of them anyway are we?

skybluetony176 · May 22, 2016

Nick said:
We aren't ever going to get there without one of them anyway are we?

So what's the point of moving to a stadium that's going to lock out paying customers then?

Nick · May 22, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
So what's the point of moving to a stadium that's going to lock out paying customers then?

So we need a drive to fill the ricoh to show them...

Deleted member 5849 · May 22, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Realistically if we're stuck in a 15k stadium with no prospect of expansion we ain't going to get to the premier league ever. Unless we fall on a multi billionaire with ambitions of doing a Bournemouth with us.

If Wasps are so keen to do a deal, surely they'd be falling over themselves at that stage to offer us the bigger ground, therefore meaning the city of Coventry has two high class sportng Arenas, and CRFC have an improved base to call their own?

If a city centre stadium has been proven to work, and 15k are packing it out every week, then doesn't that send a strong message to the local authority that they urgently need to assist in finding a similar, yet larger, location... therefore allowing for THREE high class sporting Arenas within the city boundaries?

If the plan is 15k with a possibility of 25k, then the quoted statement above is irrelevant.

Deleted member 5849 · May 22, 2016

Brylowes said:
I really don't know why but I get the impression Nick, Dave, Torch, et al are happy to stay where
we are (not Ricoh) in a shit league, getting shit crowds with shit owners ,and not aspiring to
anything.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I aspire to a long-term vision which sees the identity of the club strengthened, and its associations with the city it comes from more clearly defined. I aspire to a growing in fanaticism amongst its supporters, an increase in loyalty, and the bringing of life into a city that at times can be a desolate wasteland.

I aspire to the growth that comes with this distinct identity, where we build our own distinct brand, Coventry City on the city.

Now... personally I always thought our ideal would be linking up with the University of Warwick, in much the same way as Bristol Rovers and UWE are set to go. However, as an exercise in making the cub distinct, forward thinking, and in touch then... can't beat the Butts.

As I said before, you can by all means doubt the club's owners and their capability to deliver all of the above. That, however, is not the same as positioning it to show there is a demand for all of the above, an encouragement to explore the possibilities of the above, and the enthusiasm to follow if it is achievable.

Shades of grey, but I'd rather start with the positives on this proposal, as there are many.

Hobo · May 22, 2016

torchomatic said:
So if SISU have eroded our support to such a shit level then why do we need a big stadium? You can't have it both ways.

Sent from my P9000 using Tapatalk

You are assuming the support cannot be won back (which is negative). What disappoints me is the amount of lost opportunities SISU have missed, their addiction to shooting themselves in the foot is alarming.

Many of the posts you flag up as negative are actually realistic problems which cause concern for the viability of the project.

I love the theory of the Butts, but am not convinced about the practicalities of the project. The cost would be enormous and potentially one we could outgrow in the future (would investors be confident of a return on what would be a long term investment).

The rumours of Wasps wanting to go alone at the Ricoh, is either counter negotiating bluff or a sign their business plan is working. Ironic that Grendel is pushing this rumour to support the Butts idea but he has persistently rubbished Wasps viability? Interesting he has heard recent rumours at work but never heard about Wasps moving into the Ricoh, strange?

I cannot see SISU who stalled on a Ricoh deal, that Wasps realised was peanuts, funding the expenses of the Butts expansion. Unless (unlikely) CRFC are going to fund it, which would leave us in the same situation we are in now, playing second fiddle.

There would appear more viable options of land on the city outskirts...with the potential of more commercial growth...which would appeal more to investors.

I am not negative, just realistic and not going to get carried away at the airing of the first half baked plan. CRFC had to appease a lot of their fans at a forum and sell a vision (that is what was in it for them). Remember the original plans for the Ricoh? My advice nobody should get carried away.

Otis · May 22, 2016

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I'm surprised with all the negativity on here, I guess our fans have suffered so much we just don't believe anything good is possible anymore.

If we're going to move from the Ricoh it has to be on two conditions for me. One is that we will own our own stadium, the second is that the new location is in the city centre.

Yes maybe 15,000 is not a lot to start with, but we actually only got above that a couple of times this season. Moving up to 25,000 would be enough for the championship, and if we ever (in a million years) got to the premier league then if you take into consideration the Ricoh with the crowd segregation, you'd be down to about 29-30k anyway. Just how many times have we had that many fans at a game in the history of the club? That is also, only 4-5k less than what they are proposing for the Butts. Would you be happy to lose that in return for having our own stadium in the city centre? I would.

As for car parking, did we have any at Highfield Road? Did anyone give a fuck then? The roads won't be as congested as people think because the stadium will be in the city centre. Lots of people will walk, take the bus, take the train. The people that need to drive can use park and ride or other city centre parking.

The soul of the club can be born again, and I personally can't see how a move to the Butts can be a bad thing at all.

If the land isn't big enough for four full stands (you would need to tilt the pitch round as it is anyway) then they should build a safe standing terrace behind one of the goals for 4K on the basis that they could agree a safe standing trial with the football league. I've been to a few Bundesligsa games and it's the best experience I've ever had football wise. If the rowdy Celtic fans can have it, why can't we?

Some fait points there, but have you any idea how much traffic has increased these past 10 years? There are more and more cars on the road. It is plain to see.

I live just off the Keresley Road and have to take my daughter to drama at Barr's Hill every Tuesday and a few years back it was no problem at all, there and back. Now, when I drop her at 4.30 there is tail to tail traffic outside the gate all the way up to Aldi and I get home in 3 mph crawl.

When I pick her up at 6.30 there is still a queue of traffic.

Traffic volume has increased and keeps increasing.

Been where I live now for 5 years and have even noticed the difference in terms of being able to park outside my own house. Used to be not too much of a problem and now it is a massive problem.

Brylowes · May 22, 2016

Nick said:
So we need a drive to fill the ricoh to show them...

Nick I've run pubs for a living and I can tell you, if you don't want customers it's easy,
you just don't seek out good entertainment and hire it .
You don't put on quiz nights, game nights, karaoke nights, charity nights, and you
definitely don't engage with , listen too, or welcome your customers.
On the other hand if .............

Joy Division · May 23, 2016

Grendel · May 23, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
It leaves them options. We will be renting tennants at the Ricoh so moving on will be relatively easy.

That could be one of the 17 points they differ on.....

SkyblueBri · May 23, 2016

Re the car parking problem, I like many fans do not live in Coventry, lots of fans travel by car. At highfield road lots of parking behind Phillips store on streets etc. At Butts that does not exist so how would you accomodate out of town fans and if the answer was park and ride, well how long would that add to the journey. At the Richo I can be back in Rugby by 5:45pm after dropping my friends off.

SkyBlueZack · May 23, 2016

SkyblueBri said:
Re the car parking problem, I like many fans do not live in Coventry, lots of fans travel by car. At highfield road lots of parking behind Phillips store on streets etc. At Butts that does not exist so how would you accomodate out of town fans and if the answer was park and ride, well how long would that add to the journey. At the Richo I can be back in Rugby by 5:45pm after dropping my friends off.

Train? Make a day of it? This is why a city centre location is ideal, the shops and pubs etc would see an upturn in footfall and money spent. This is of course if you could get a ticket

Joy Division · May 23, 2016

SkyblueBri said:
Re the car parking problem, I like many fans do not live in Coventry, lots of fans travel by car. At highfield road lots of parking behind Phillips store on streets etc. At Butts that does not exist so how would you accomodate out of town fans and if the answer was park and ride, well how long would that add to the journey. At the Richo I can be back in Rugby by 5:45pm after dropping my friends off.

Get the train from Rugby to Coventry, 15 minute walk to the ground?

SkyblueBri · May 23, 2016

Joy Division said:
Get the train from Rugby to Coventry, 15 minute walk to the ground?

That is a good way of losing fans I want to go out on a Saturday night not spend time catching trains and from where I live you can not get to the station easily

Nick · May 23, 2016

SkyblueBri said:
That is a good way of losing fans I want to go out on a Saturday night not spend time catching trains and from where I live you can not get to the station easily

You would park in town then walk?

chiefdave · May 23, 2016

SkyblueBri said:
At highfield road lots of parking behind Phillips store on streets etc. At Butts that does not exist so how would you accomodate out of town fans

But look at what you're saying there. There was virtually no parking at HR itself so you relied on available parking in the surrounding area. Theres 8K parking spaces in the city centre, sure there would also be parking on business premises etc that could be used for example the old college is / has been converted to offices, where do they all park? And chances are a city centre stadium would see less people travelling by car.

SkyblueBri said:
if the answer was park and ride, well how long would that add to the journey. At the Richo I can be back in Rugby by 5:45pm after dropping my friends off.

Why would you drive to the ground? Its 11mins on the train from Rugby to Cov and would be a 10 min walk to the ground.

chiefdave · May 23, 2016

SkyblueBri said:
That is a good way of losing fans I want to go out on a Saturday night not spend time catching trains and from where I live you can not get to the station easily

Drive to rugby station and park there.

Joy Division · May 23, 2016

SkyblueBri said:
That is a good way of losing fans I want to go out on a Saturday night not spend time catching trains and from where I live you can not get to the station easily

The current set up at the Ricoh is a good way of losing fans, its more of a pain in the arse to get to for Coventry residents than people who live outside of the city. You would probably be able to get back to Rugby about the same time as you do now.

Sky Blue Kid · May 24, 2016

Nick said:
We aren't ever going to get there without one of them anyway are we?

Why not? Blackpool did it(On a shoestring), so did Burnley, and Palace in recent years.

shmmeee · May 24, 2016

Joy Division said:

Tinpot ground for a tinpot club.

dongonzalos · May 24, 2016

Joy Division said:

Jesus if you showed me that picture and asked me before the BPA talk whose stadium is that? I would have said Shrewsbury Town or Carlisle or someone like that.
Frightening that it could be ours

Otis · May 24, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Jesus if you showed me that picture and asked me before the BPA talk whose stadium is that? I would have said Shrewsbury Town or Carlisle or someone like that.
Frightening that it could be ours

If that was to be it, it would be soulless, characterless and bolt on by numbers. :hungover:

If we are going to do it, at least let's make it a bit more unique and a bit different, so when people see a photo of it, it is instantly recognisable as Coventry City.

Otis · May 24, 2016

Don't know whether this has been covered or not, but is there a danger that we say to Wasps we categorically are not staying at the Ricoh and are going to the Butts, but then the Butts doesn't happen and we're kicked out of the Ricoh, leaving us groundless again?

I know that could happen if Wasps just kicked us out anyway, but I am talking in terms of our burning bridges in telling them we are definitely not staying.

italiahorse · May 24, 2016

shmmeee said:
Tinpot ground for a tinpot club.

What is this picture ?

Sky Blue Kid · May 24, 2016

Otis said:
If that was to be it, it would be soulless, characterless and bolt on by numbers. :hungover:

If we are going to do it, at least let's make it a bit more unique and a bit different, so when people see a photo of it, it is instantly recognisable as Coventry City.

So if you're watching SISU... Take heed and be warned!

Woz01 · May 24, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
It isn't as simple as that Nick. Look at a case involving Mildenhall Stadium which is a motorsport venue. A couple moved into a house a couple of miles up the road and promptly started complaining about noise etc. They took them to court claiming that they didn't know it was there when they bought the house despite there being an advertising board yards from their house and the stadium owners producing sworn evidence from the previous owners and the estate agent who sold the house confirming that they had been made aware that the venue was nearby when viewing the house and they won. It's practically broke the owners of Mildenhall stadium in legal bills, they're now under a strict curfew which means they have to stop meetings by a certain time (9pm IIRC, the previous curfew being 10:30) and have had to shell out a fortune having special fencing erected all around the venue that's about twelve feet tall to try and control the noise. To top ot all of the venue is also right next door to RAF Mildenhall which has flights taking off twenty four seven that the owners of the house can't put a stop to.

Don't underestimate the power of the residents. Especially when a precedent like Mildenhall has already been set in a court room. The fact that they chose to live next door to the BPA doesn't seem to mean jack from what I can tell.

There is also an RAF site next to it with planes flying in and out regularly. Didn't matter to the courts but Mildenhall Speedway are still fighting it.

Captain Dart · May 24, 2016

A few years ago when SISU announced proposals for a new stadium they appointed a range of expert advisors. What was their advice and are any of them still engaged?

This is despite the club recruiting a raft of advisors including property experts CBRE, architects AFLS+P, planning consultants Turleys and highways consultants Vectos.
In addition, environment assessors WSP and economic development specialists SQW have now also been appointed.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/new-coventry-city-stadium-built-6788623

Butts park arena? (39 Viewers)

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