calum wilsons goal (2 Viewers)

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ajsccfc

ajsccfc

Well-Known Member
Houchens Head said:
Wilson will be a top player in the very near future. I can see one of the "top" teams making an offer he can't refuse and then he will go on to play for England. Watch this space!
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I'd love to see this happen, so long as it's not Chelsea or Man City who appear to buy young players just so other teams can't have them.
 
Skyblueweeman

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
So......many were saying that it was a good offer. A fair few of us were saying that it was a poor offer to accept and should hold out for more. We were told we were wrong. And now those that told us we were wrong are now saying that his value has gone up but that they were not wrong before still and those that wanted more were still wrong but it isn't poor form to say so :thinking about:

I didn't name you or anyone that did say so. It is just amazing sometimes on here how much some people try to make out that someone has said what they have not whilst backtracking. I said what I said then and still say the same.

So you are now saying that you think he would have been worth less than 3m if we would have kept him as the service to him would have been worse. The service wasn't great. But having him made us go forward. Just like it would now. And he would have had another seasons experience against worse players. He would have done even better. Or are you saying he would have done better against Championship defenders than Division 3 defenders? He gets the ball and runs at them. We were shit when he was with us. Look what happened when he wasn't playing.

So would you like to insult me again for disagreeing with you what you say whilst saying that it is poor form for me to do it? :whistle:
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Where to start....

* I said it was a good offer at the time. I still say that at the time, it was a good offer. You say otherwise. No biggy. I'm certainly not for telling people they're wrong when an answer is an opinion. If an answer has a clear yes/no outcome and someone says no when it was yes, that's different.
* You didn't name me - but you referred direct to my post and quoted it?
* Had Wilson stayed here one more season and without the likes of Moussa and Baker, then yes, I do think he would've done worse. Again, opinion. But I stand by it. If a player scores less goals (which I think he would've done as I think he would've had less service), then yes, naturally his value would've dropped below £3m.
* I'm saying a striker not only needs technical ability, but needs a good team around him. Bournemouths position in the Championship suggests they have a good team so yes, I am saying he's in a good position to score more goals against Championship defences this season as opposed to League One (or division 3 if you're trying to exaggerate your point) defences when playing in a crap team.

Finally...I didn't insult you. If I would've insulted you, it would've gone something like 'Astute you bell-end, you're wrong and your post is stupid' or along those lines. Your post (which directly quoted mine) said some people hate to be shown to be wrong. I've merely had a difference of opinion with you.

WM
 
Skyblueweeman

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
And to add, in the season that CW and LC played up front until LC left on the 31st Jan 2014, CW scored 14 in 26 games (54%) but after LC left, 7 in 20 league games (35%). There was a shoulder injury in there as well if I recall correct but I think it spanned both periods.

Even by giving him a grace period upon injury recovery, one might say that he was less of a threat in a side weakened by the departure of LC. Add the departures of Moussa and Baker....
 
Moff

Moff

Well-Known Member
Personally I wish him well.

I also think he was only worth what a club was prepared to pay, and it happened to be 3 million from Bournemouth.

Whilst I would love him to still be with the club, once someone comes in and offers to increase your wages four or fivefold and to play at a higher level then I think in our current position we would struggle to keep hold of anyone. If someone offers me more money to move jobs, to a better position, I know what I would do.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Skyblueweeman said:
Where to start....

* I said it was a good offer at the time. I still say that at the time, it was a good offer. You say otherwise. No biggy. I'm certainly not for telling people they're wrong when an answer is an opinion. If an answer has a clear yes/no outcome and someone says no when it was yes, that's different.
* You didn't name me - but you referred direct to my post and quoted it?
* Had Wilson stayed here one more season and without the likes of Moussa and Baker, then yes, I do think he would've done worse. Again, opinion. But I stand by it. If a player scores less goals (which I think he would've done as I think he would've had less service), then yes, naturally his value would've dropped below £3m.
* I'm saying a striker not only needs technical ability, but needs a good team around him. Bournemouths position in the Championship suggests they have a good team so yes, I am saying he's in a good position to score more goals against Championship defences this season as opposed to League One (or division 3 if you're trying to exaggerate your point) defences when playing in a crap team.

Finally...I didn't insult you. If I would've insulted you, it would've gone something like 'Astute you bell-end, you're wrong and your post is stupid' or along those lines. Your post (which directly quoted mine) said some people hate to be shown to be wrong. I've merely had a difference of opinion with you.

WM
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Yes I said some people hate to be wrong. It looks like you think that I said that you hate being wrong as you are keeping up with it. So to me it shows that you hate it although it is only paranoia. As I said it was OK for me to be told that I was wrong when he was sold as I said he went too cheaply but I am not now allowed to say that with the season he has had that it proves the point. Then some people wonder where the SISU lover comments come from. SISU fucked up totally letting him go so cheaply. Yet if you say so some are willing to be outspoken so much that it can be seen as defending them yet again for no reason.

So if our strikers had a good team around them last season before they were sold/injured why were we totally crap without them then?

Was calling me ignorant meant to be a compliment then?

So you are allowed an opinion but I am not?

I now await your paranoia to start where you make out that I have called you a SISU lover :sarcasm:
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Moff said:
Personally I wish him well.

I also think he was only worth what a club was prepared to pay, and it happened to be 3 million from Bournemouth.

Whilst I would love him to still be with the club, once someone comes in and offers to increase your wages four or fivefold and to play at a higher level then I think in our current position we would struggle to keep hold of anyone. If someone offers me more money to move jobs, to a better position, I know what I would do.
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But when he was sold some were asking how come teams like Southampton could get much more for their young players whilst being happy with the first bid for ours.

And it isn't all about money to everyone. I took a massive pay cut about 10 years ago. I was more interested in family quality time than the money. Not all footballers follow the money. Was there anything that said Wilson wanted to go before he was sold? It was like with Dublin years ago. He wanted to stay. But he was forced out of our club. Wilson was sold cheaply so SISU wouldn't have to put any money in for another year. But it will cost them in the long run.
 
L

LB87ccfc

Member
Wilson was definitely sold at a much lower value than what his potential was worth, however he has developed under the leadership and coaching at Bournemouth into a more rounded player and they are bearing the fruits of their one to one hard work with him.

He left us a rough diamond and they took the punt based on his potential, Forest paid almost 8M for a striker who in my opinion is not as good as Wilson, so we should of held out for a little more, but that's football.

Good luck to Callum, a shame we had no ambition to keep hold of the player for one more year with a promise of a move if he scored x amount and we never achieved promotion.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
But when he was sold some were asking how come teams like Southampton could get much more for their young players whilst being happy with the first bid for ours.

And it isn't all about money to everyone. I took a massive pay cut about 10 years ago. I was more interested in family quality time than the money. Not all footballers follow the money. Was there anything that said Wilson wanted to go before he was sold? It was like with Dublin years ago. He wanted to stay. But he was forced out of our club. Wilson was sold cheaply so SISU wouldn't have to put any money in for another year. But it will cost them in the long run.
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Can't you get any facts correct when arguing a case?

We didn't se to the first club - Norwich were in the bidding as well.
 
SIR ERNIE

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Can't you get any facts correct when arguing a case?

We didn't se to the first club - Norwich were in the bidding as well.
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You're nit picking just for the sake of it. There were two offers on the table at the same time. They were the first serious bids.

Astute's argument is correct.

Or do you believe that if SISU had held on to CW for another 6 or 12 months they would not have got more for him?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SIR ERNIE said:
You're nit picking just for the sake of it. There were two offers on the table at the same time. They were the first serious bids.

Astute's argument is correct.

Or do you believe that if SISU had held on to CW for another 6 or 12 months they would not have got more for him?
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The argument is deeply flawed and actually is misleading. It is basing his performances at Bournemouth as the barometer for extra value. This is spurious and irrelevant,

He would have had to continue to excel in a declining team. The statistics actually show that once Clarke left last season his goals per game ratio dropped significantly. Pressley opted to play a tighter midfield and less width. This would restrict supply and goal scoring chances.

The combination of Clarke leaving and the strategy change would reduce goal supply - no real debate.

Look at other sales made. Bigi derided as cheap but ultimately good business for a non achiever -- the right time to sell.

Misfud -- a suggested £5 million offer by Reading rejected - a sign of ambition or lack of judgement.

Haynes -- many on here were frothing at the mouth at the prospect of a sale to a higher club aiming to take a punt on him. Imagine if we'd sold him for a couple of million. It would have been the sale of the century in our favour.

The other factor is once offers come in players go anyway, you don't hold on to players once agents secure higher salaries and signing on fees. It really is not a valid to argument to suggest otherwise. Players always move in that scenario.

It was the right decision and Astute's argument lacks cohesive thought and is based on emotion, not facts.

He'd have been worth less.
 
Moff

Moff

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
But when he was sold some were asking how come teams like Southampton could get much more for their young players whilst being happy with the first bid for ours.

And it isn't all about money to everyone. I took a massive pay cut about 10 years ago. I was more interested in family quality time than the money. Not all footballers follow the money. Was there anything that said Wilson wanted to go before he was sold? It was like with Dublin years ago. He wanted to stay. But he was forced out of our club. Wilson was sold cheaply so SISU wouldn't have to put any money in for another year. But it will cost them in the long run.
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I fully respect your point Astute, but we will never know if he did want to go or not. Some supsect he didnt, I heard rumours he did as they were offering a contract he wanted to accept.

I am fully with you on the family front re work, but he is young, has a short career, and has a troublesome shoulder problem that could cut it short, so I personally think he wanted to go and I cant blame him if he did. I wish we had got more for him, or that he was still here, but sadly he went and for 3 million, which now looks a bargain, but as I said they were the ones to stump up the cash whilst others wouldnt and we will never know if CCFC got them up to that or if it was their one and only bid.
 
Sky Blue Harry H

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
Skyblueweeman said:
£3m WAS a good price for Wilson when he sold him. The only other comparable transfer around the same time saw Nahki Wells go to Huddersfield for £2.5m (I think...might have been closer to £3m).

He's obviously worth more than that now but apart from the 3 loanees, if we did get £3m cash, then it was a good deal. People need to realise we're not a top 4 club...like pretty much every other club from the Championship down, we'll always sell our best players if a good offer comes in from a club in a better league position than us.


The only thing I pray for is that the owners put a sell on fee clause in the transfer as we could do very well out of that in the future.

WM
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Assombalonga Peterborough to Forest - £5m IIRC ?
 
Skyblueweeman

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
Yes I said some people hate to be wrong. It looks like you think that I said that you hate being wrong as you are keeping up with it. So to me it shows that you hate it although it is only paranoia. As I said it was OK for me to be told that I was wrong when he was sold as I said he went too cheaply but I am not now allowed to say that with the season he has had that it proves the point. Then some people wonder where the SISU lover comments come from. SISU fucked up totally letting him go so cheaply. Yet if you say so some are willing to be outspoken so much that it can be seen as defending them yet again for no reason.

So if our strikers had a good team around them last season before they were sold/injured why were we totally crap without them then?

Was calling me ignorant meant to be a compliment then?

So you are allowed an opinion but I am not?

I now await your paranoia to start where you make out that I have called you a SISU lover :sarcasm:
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Post #31 Astute, you said this:

Some people just hate being shown to be wrong, and those that said whatever we got for him was a good price were wrong

Who are you to tell people they were wrong when they have just had a difference of opinion to your own? There's no exact method of confirming whether £3m is the right price or not. You and I can have opinions on whether we believe it to be right or wrong but neither can prove to be definitively correct. I have no problems with you thinking it wasn't a good price, as I'm sure you're not bothered about me thinking £3m was a decent price.

You're not a stupid bloke Astute (despite insinuating above that ignorant may have been a compliment - I'll assume this was a joke...) but don't say people are wrong if they don't agree with your own thoughts. I stated that it was a good price. My opinion...I might be wrong but happy for others to say otherwise.

WM
 
LJC_CCFC

LJC_CCFC

Member
Wilson has gone. The price was fair for a striker who had scored goals in a league in which Craig Westcarr and David Mooney, amongst many others scored for fun.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
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