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D

Deity

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
But we weren't expected to when we had those players.
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Because we started the season badly not because we didn’t have talent.

We also had no idea how effective that back 3 would be.
 
skybluecam

skybluecam

Well-Known Member
Deity said:
If we had a squad now that included

vik
Hamer
COH
Sheaf
Doyle
McNally
Fadz

I think we would expect to be in the play offs
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I'd take Fadz off that list.

Probably wouldn't have got in to any other 11 in the top half of the table.

Perfect example of a player that Robins got the most out of by playing to his strengths and covering his weaknesses.
 
D

Deity

Well-Known Member
skybluecam said:
I'd take Fadz off that list.

Probably wouldn't have got in to any other 11 in the top half of the table.

Perfect example of a player that Robins got the most out of by playing to his strengths and covering his weaknesses.
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I agree with that in isolation but i think in that 3 his experience and leadership was needed and valuable
 
lewys33

lewys33

Well-Known Member
Laugh Lol GIF by PG Tips
 
Domo

Domo

Well-Known Member
blunted said:
They are very impressed with interviewees.
Great at interviews does not mean good at the job, in fact often the opposite. Bullshitters often get the job.
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it all depends who was the interviewer, i once stepped in last minute and interviewed candidates for a role not in my feild, it was a disaster.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Deity said:
If we had a squad now that included

vik
Hamer
COH
Sheaf
Doyle
McNally
Fadz

I think we would expect to be in the play offs
Click to expand...

People make these statements with hindsight. Robins and his staff got the most of the players on this list and likewise, Derby under Lampard developed a lot of great talent. Mason Mount is the best example, he went from Championship playoff standard to Top 4 and England international in the space of 2 season.

Instinctually, at the very least I'd expect Lampard and his staff to provide excellent coaching to our group of players, even if he may not be an elite tactician. Whether or not that takes us to the promised land (and/or staying there) is an entirely different ball game. Personally, I'm optimistic if he is hired.
 
Frostie

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
People make these statements with hindsight. Robins and his staff got the most of the players on this list and likewise, Derby under Lampard developed a lot of great talent. Mason Mount is the best example, he went from Championship playoff standard to Top 4 and England international in the space of 2 season.

Instinctually, at the very least I'd expect Lampard and his staff to provide excellent coaching to our group of players, even if he may not be an elite tactician. Whether or not that takes us to the promised land (and/or staying there) is an entirely different ball game. Personally, I'm optimistic if he is hired.
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He loaned in a lot of great talent that was already far too good for the Championship.
Which of Derby's own youngsters did he truly develop? Bogle - Yes, fair enough, not much more.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
He loaned in a lot of great talent that was already far too good for the Championship.
Which of Derby's own youngsters did he truly develop? Bogle - Yes, fair enough, not much more.
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Tomori and Wilson had one good half season at Hull and Mount had played in the Eredivisie before joining Derby. Lampard developed others at Chelsea and at Everton he gave Gordon his big break through. Credit is given where it’s due.

The point here is that a) it wasn’t that well known these players would be top class and b) Lampard played a role in their development.

I seen a tweet this week saying ‘how did Cov not promoted with this team?’ with a picture of Hamer and Gyokeres below. A cynic could disparage Robins’ record because he had such good talent playing for him if you ignored the work Robins and his team put in with Vik and Hamer specifically.

As a coach, Lampard and his team will be great for our players. The question I have: is he tactically astute enough to get us to the playoffs and beyond to the Premiership?
 
J

JoeCCFCPUSB

Well-Known Member
Deity said:
If we had a squad now that included

vik
Hamer
COH
Sheaf
Doyle
McNally
Fadz

I think we would expect to be in the
Click to expand...

Once again my argument was are you telling me Robins and Ady are worse at developing players than Lampard?

And with all the replies you are pretty much answering my question.

Lampard and Jody Morris couldn't lace the boots of Ady and Mark.

Lampards tactics on paper : high line, slow build up, and try and use pace out on thewings.

Lampard in reality: tried this with Everton and was exposed, took Dyche to come in and steady the ship.

Record : Everton 1st season won 8 drew 2 Lost 11 averaged 1.21 points per game
Everton second season won 5 drew 8 lost 21
Averaged 0.66 points per game

Total of 0.68 points per game, 14.71% win percentage.

His second stint at Chelsea I'm not even going to mention it, was that bad.

Honestly anyone that genuinely believes Lampard will be a success at this club is a fucking idiot.
 
N

nunchuckas

Well-Known Member
JoeCCFCPUSB said:
Once again my argument was are you telling me Robins and Ady are worse at developing players than Lampard?

And with all the replies you are pretty much answering my question.

Lampard and Jody Morris couldn't lace the boots of Ady and Mark.

Lampards tactics on paper : high line, slow build up, and try and use pace out on thewings.

Lampard in reality: tried this with Everton and was exposed, took Dyche to come in and steady the ship.

Record : Everton 1st season won 8 drew 2 Lost 11 averaged 1.21 points per game
Everton second season won 5 drew 8 lost 21
Averaged 0.66 points per game

Total of 0.68 points per game, 14.71% win percentage.

His second stint at Chelsea I'm not even going to mention it, was that bad.

Honestly anyone that genuinely believes Lampard will be a success at this club is a fucking idiot.
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Probably the same idiot that thought it's a good idea to sack a loyal, and proven good manager of 7 seasons.
 
J

JoeCCFCPUSB

Well-Known Member
nunchuckas said:
Probably the same idiot that thought it's a good idea to sack a loyal, and proven good manager of 7 seasons.
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👏 bang on.

The Reading coach, Shef Wednesday coach, West Broms coach and even RVN would make Lampard and Morris look like Sunday league managers.

If he is given the job you'll soon see, Sheaf will be left on his own, exposed in midfield, you'll have Binks and Thomas having to play centre back and full back.

Go back and watch Everton, Chelsea it was a showcase of Lampards incredible ability of not being at the level required.

Sacking Robins for Lampard is the worst decision in this club last 10 years easily.
 
N

nunchuckas

Well-Known Member
JoeCCFCPUSB said:
👏 bang on.

The Reading coach, Shef Wednesday coach, West Broms coach and even RVN would make Lampard and Morris look like Sunday league managers.

If he is given the job you'll soon see, Sheaf will be left on his own, exposed in midfield, you'll have Binks and Thomas having to play centre back and full back.

Go back and watch Everton, Chelsea it was a showcase of Lampards incredible ability of not being at the level required.

Sacking Robins for Lampard is the worst decision in this club last 10 years easily.
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Yeah, I'm praying for anyone other than Lampard at the moment, although unfortunately it seems nailed on. I wouldn't have got rid of Robins for any of the names linked. But even someone like Eustace, I'd be delighted with over Lampard at this stage.

Pretty worrying times if this is the decision we've made and direction we're going in.
 
Frostie

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Tomori and Wilson had one good half season at Hull and Mount had played in the Eredivisie before joining Derby. Lampard developed others at Chelsea and at Everton he gave Gordon his big break through. Credit is given where it’s due.

The point here is that a) it wasn’t that well known these players would be top class and b) Lampard played a role in their development.

I seen a tweet this week saying ‘how did Cov not promoted with this team?’ with a picture of Hamer and Gyokeres below. A cynic could disparage Robins’ record because he had such good talent playing for him if you ignored the work Robins and his team put in with Vik and Hamer specifically.

As a coach, Lampard and his team will be great for our players. The question I have: is he tactically astute enough to get us to the playoffs and beyond to the Premiership?
Click to expand...
I disagree with you on point A.
Within football circles it was well known that these players were tipped for the top. Mount, for example, routinely played up 3-4 years in age group with the Chelsea Academy & scored 14 goals from midfield in the Eredivisie even before his time at Derby.

On point B yes, 100% Lampard helped their development. No question at all & he deserves huge credit for that. I think all football fans love it when a young player is nurtured well & comes of age. However, this only really aided their parent clubs in the long run (ultimately aiding himself at Chelsea of course) but how did Derby really benefit from it in the end? They didn't get promoted & were left with enormous gaps in the squad that they couldn't fill. Especially as Lampard (amongst others) wasted a tonne of money on some poor signings.

With the Hamer & Gyokeres comparison, we took a risk, it was great recruitment & Robins developing these players who weren't sought after by other clubs. We turned them into excellent players for us & then ultimately they became multi million pound superstars which is benefiting us now.

On the tactics side of things, it's a huge concern for me with Lampard. He's been found out many times already & I really struggle to see how he can offer more than Robins.

The underlying data suggests MR would have turned it around whilst the underlying data for Lampard's time in the Championship is simply woeful. They were dragged to a Playoff Final by individual players far too good for the level & he blew that tactically too.
 
N

nunchuckas

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
I disagree with you on point A.
Within football circles it was well known that these players were tipped for the top. Mount, for example, routinely played up 3-4 years in age group with the Chelsea Academy & scored 14 goals from midfield in the Eredivisie even before his time at Derby.

On point B yes, 100% Lampard helped their development. No question at all & he deserves huge credit for that. I think all football fans love it when a young player is nurtured well & comes of age. However, this only really aided their parent clubs in the long run (ultimately aiding himself at Chelsea of course) but how did Derby really benefit from it in the end? They didn't get promoted & were left with enormous gaps in the squad that they couldn't fill. Especially as Lampard (amongst others) wasted a tonne of money on some poor signings.

With the Hamer & Gyokeres comparison, we took a risk, it was great recruitment & Robins developing these players who weren't sought after by other clubs. We turned them into excellent players for us & then ultimately they became multi million pound superstars which is benefiting us now.

On the tactics side of things, it's a huge concern for me with Lampard. He's been found out many times already & I really struggle to see how he can offer more than Robins.

The underlying data suggests MR would have turned it around whilst the underlying data for Lampard's time in the Championship is simply woeful. They were dragged to a Playoff Final by individual players far too good for the level & he blew that tactically too.
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Exactly, King was banging on about relegation, but we're way more at risk of that now than under a manager who has proven to have turned it round from November onwards. It felt like we were on the cusp of doing that following the Luton and Middlesbrough performances, granted the Derby game was crap, but we'll never know if we were about to go on a run and start getting the results our xG/xA were suggesting.

At the moment, I really can't see a scenario where we're not going to go back to the Championship days of old; with a batshit owner and getting through 2 or 3 managers a season when we were under McGinnity.

Hope I'm wrong, but we'd kind of be getting what we deserved for sacking Robins and replacing him with someone like Lampard. I'd be laughing at us if I was a rival fan.
 
R

RobinsSkyBlues

Well-Known Member
Most of us seem to fall into three groups.

Lampard would be a great signing.

Lampard would be a poor signing.

Lampard could be a very good signing but it could also go very wrong.

I'm firmly in the 3rd group. My expectations would be middle of the road. Whoever we get would have my backing. But I won't follow them blindly. They will have to earn praise just like they would have to lose my confidence in them. A poor start won't make them a poor choice just like a good start won't mean success is on its way.
 
Alan Dugdales Moustache

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
Has there been a club statement yesterday's today ? Or is it today ? Or is it all bollocks ?
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
I disagree with you on point A.
Within football circles it was well known that these players were tipped for the top. Mount, for example, routinely played up 3-4 years in age group with the Chelsea Academy & scored 14 goals from midfield in the Eredivisie even before his time at Derby.

On point B yes, 100% Lampard helped their development. No question at all & he deserves huge credit for that. I think all football fans love it when a young player is nurtured well & comes of age. However, this only really aided their parent clubs in the long run (ultimately aiding himself at Chelsea of course) but how did Derby really benefit from it in the end? They didn't get promoted & were left with enormous gaps in the squad that they couldn't fill. Especially as Lampard (amongst others) wasted a tonne of money on some poor signings.

With the Hamer & Gyokeres comparison, we took a risk, it was great recruitment & Robins developing these players who weren't sought after by other clubs. We turned them into excellent players for us & then ultimately they became multi million pound superstars which is benefiting us now.

On the tactics side of things, it's a huge concern for me with Lampard. He's been found out many times already & I really struggle to see how he can offer more than Robins.

The underlying data suggests MR would have turned it around whilst the underlying data for Lampard's time in the Championship is simply woeful. They were dragged to a Playoff Final by individual players far too good for the level & he blew that tactically too.
Click to expand...

Lampard’s Derby team was not stronger than Villa or Leeds. On what metrics was his time in the Championship ‘woeful?’

I don’t think you’re being fair to say Lampard didn’t develop Mount (or anyone else). He came to Derby as an Eredivisie player, became a top Championship player and the season after was a key player for a UCL side. Looking at Yasin Ayari this year, are Robins and Eustace bad managers because they couldn’t get him playing well last season? Of course not.

Tactically, he was found out a few times in the Prem. Which isn’t a blot on your career of 3-4 seasons as a new manager. We’re a Championship side.

You know what, there isn’t actually a better candidate than Lampard out there atm so for the sake of the team and our club, we should all be hoping Lampard will smash it here.
 
S

StrettoBoy

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
It's Friday, we don't have a new manager yet and 'journalists' are giving us the huge news that Carr may be in charge tomorrow, but not definitely :ROFLMAO:
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Even if we announce a new manager today - which I am starting to think is unlikely but it’s obviously possible - I would expect Carr to be in charge tomorrow with the new manager probably sitting in the stands.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Lampard’s Derby team was not stronger than Villa or Leeds. On what metrics was his time in the Championship ‘woeful?’

I don’t think you’re being fair to say Lampard didn’t develop Mount (or anyone else). He came to Derby as an Eredivisie player, became a top Championship player and the season after was a key player for a UCL side. Looking at Yasin Ayari this year, are Robins and Eustace bad managers because they couldn’t get him playing well last season? Of course not.

Tactically, he was found out a few times in the Prem. Which isn’t a blot on your career of 3-4 seasons as a new manager. We’re a Championship side.

You know what, there isn’t actually a better candidate than Lampard out there atm so for the sake of the team and our club, we should all be hoping Lampard will smash it here.
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Yeah, but some have quickly abandoned the idea of giving a manager more than two thirds of a season before sacking him.
 
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