CCFC Ltd cannot be run at a loss... (1 Viewer)

[cloughie]

Well, there you go. ACL will be alright then, won't they?

Yup now get the hell out of town .........Probably try Warwickshire

 

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[torchomatic]

Nope, not forgotten that at all. The way things are going we'll be out of business a good 30 years before that particular deadline.

Actually they said Sisu should get out of Coventry.

Your forgetting that CCFC are contracted to play at the Ricoh until 2045.

Co-operation between Coventry Council and Warwickshire Council would probably prevent it happening anyway, as the Ricoh is an asset Warwickshire benefits from as well.

Even if it did happen, whilst I would except a move out of the city for on a temporary basis, I could not as a matter of principle support a team that has abandoned the city of its birth.

 

[giveusagoal]

I am coming round slightly to the fact that by lowering the expenditure of the club, ie lowering wage bill and what get else they have done, is actually the right thing to do, I didn't agree with it at the time, because it left us behind in comparison to other teams but with the fair play ruling coming in, will it give us tr upper hand when the rule comes into force fully? If we can get on par with income and outcome then like anything well be ok, but the way Sisu went about it first off was wrong, but I could see what they were trying to achieve, they are playing hardball with the council because they want to best possible deal for the club, (wouldn't everyone) now I'm no Sisu lover, but is it actually the council which are screwing us over? Sisu are apparently renowned for getting on the cheap and then selling for a profit, so with this in mind in order for them to sell us for a profit, they will have to have some assets, (surely?) so getting the stadium would be one, I think Sisu mean good, but have gone the total wrong way about doing it, which is why most of us hate Sisu for what they have.

Nat - I sort of agree with what you are trying to say here. The rent is to high - but they have been made an offer to lower the rent.

Don't forget that the Rent also goes towards paying off a mortgage that ACL had to take out to save the club.

Sisu knew what the score was when they took over - if they wanted to turn the business into a profitable one then they should have invested long term.

Make no mistake - the minute SISU sniff a profit they are gone - Some of their company set ups have to questioned - they don't hold CCFC interests at heart.

Hear is a bit more on them - something i apparantley posted in the wrong place

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/26927-Joy-Seppala-and-SISU-Honesty.?p=370506#post370506

 

[giveusagoal]

Who says it has to be in the City? Ryton is in Warwickshire for instance. As for the Ricoh. Who cares, ACL don't. They are very "busy" don't forget and have already said that the Club "should get out of Coventry". Nuneaton Town could move in or there could be lots of rugby games, etc etc. The world is ACL's oyster.

Sorry you have misquoted ACL - they actually said SISU should get out of Coventry not CCFC.

 

[chiefdave]

I believe ACL would have a big struggle on it's hands were CCFC to leave. Whatever you think about the club chances of them getting a new tenant that's as high profile is very remote and that will impact on naming rights, sponsorship etc. And of course whoever comes in will be agreeing rent from scratch, a much better position to be in to get a lower rent. Then they have a huge question, do they keep maintaining the stadium for occasional use (out of use the stadium costs would not be much lower than they are now given that CCFC cover match day costs) or do they try and convert it for some other use which would of course need further investment. Hopefully we'll never know as it won't come to that.

One question I do have, ACL / council talk about the huge potential income from development in the area. If this is the case why are they not doing it themselves? The loan, or bail out depending on how you view it, shows that the council has access to finance at a good rate so why not utilise it if there's a huge profit to be made?

I don't think there's any easy answer to running the football club at a loss. How many clubs actually break even?

It appears SISU tried to operate with a playing budget based around breaking even last year and look how competitive we were. CCFC can't operate in a bubble so unless the Football League, FA etc get to grips with the problem in a meaningful way it would seem that running the club at break-even would mean a constant battle to just tread water and stay in the championship (should we ever get there). I would imagine, given the size of our crowds, we could break even in League 1 but that would mean cutting the playing budget or hoping we get drawn against the likes of Spurs and Arsenal every year, not to mention getting a lower rent. If it was perceived that we weren't making a serious attempt at the promotion how long before the crowds start getting even smaller? At what point would it all bottom out and be self-sustaining?

 

[Jack Griffin]

One of the problems with the championship is that the latest FFP rules for the division allow for a £4M loss at the moment.. and of course teams dropping into it have their parachute payments.

Result - break even means you are at a disadvantage. Unless everyone is forced to break even then the playing field is not level. I think they are moving in that direction but I sense that there is resistance, which is why the finance model is a bit of a compromise. It will be interesting to see what they do after 2015/16.

- Permitted losses will reduce from an acceptable deviation of £4m for 2011/12 to £2m by 2015/16, with additional investment in certain areas of club infrastructure being excluded (e.g. youth development and community programmes).
- The permitted level of shareholder equity investment will reduce from £8m for the 2011/12 season to £3m by 2015/16.

 

[giveusagoal]

I believe ACL would have a big struggle on it's hands were CCFC to leave. Whatever you think about the club chances of them getting a new tenant that's as high profile is very remote and that will impact on naming rights, sponsorship etc. And of course whoever comes in will be agreeing rent from scratch, a much better position to be in to get a lower rent. Then they have a huge question, do they keep maintaining the stadium for occasional use (out of use the stadium costs would not be much lower than they are now given that CCFC cover match day costs) or do they try and convert it for some other use which would of course need further investment. Hopefully we'll never know as it won't come to that.

Some good points - but being in League One will already have had an impact on any future price for sponsorship etc. Don't forget that over 80% off the income from the site comes from conferences, events and exhibitions. The Ricoh deal rolls on untill 2025 - so sometime to go before worrying about re-naming.



One question I do have, ACL / council talk about the huge potential income from development in the area. If this is the case why are they not doing it themselves? The loan, or bail out depending on how you view it, shows that the council has access to finance at a good rate so why not utilise it if there's a huge profit to be made?

Because ACL are not a buisness in the true sense of the word. They was formed to take over the ownership and running of the Arena when CCFC could no longer do so due to financial mismanagement. Remember they were formed to save CCFC. It is a not for profit organisation. ACL is run by the council and a charity and both of these are governed by laws an regulations laid for local government and the charity commission.

I don't think there's any easy answer to running the football club at a loss. How many clubs actually break even?

Unfortunatley you are correct - SISU saw us a route to a quick buck - probably on the say so of Ray Ranson - what they didnt realise was that a football club needs to invest on the pitch to see profit off the pitch.

It appears SISU tried to operate with a playing budget based around breaking even last year and look how competitive we were. CCFC can't operate in a bubble so unless the Football League, FA etc get to grips with the problem in a meaningful way it would seem that running the club at break-even would mean a constant battle to just tread water and stay in the championship (should we ever get there). I would imagine, given the size of our crowds, we could break even in League 1 but that would mean cutting the playing budget or hoping we get drawn against the likes of Spurs and Arsenal every year, not to mention getting a lower rent. If it was perceived that we weren't making a serious attempt at the promotion how long before the crowds start getting even smaller? At what point would it all bottom out and be self-sustaining?

Good question - the FFP rules are a hinderance - and allthough something needed to be done to bring football in line into the real world, this was not the answer. Clubs with bigger gate are allowed to spend more money - thus will grow even bigger - while smaller clubs will never be able to spend enough to catch up - a good idea - badly thought out and poorly implemented in my view.

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[wayne4426]

I dont think we will ever get to the bottom of this mess until SISU go. We are on a merry go round and will continue on this until someone breaks away from it. Either way my head is starting to spin