CCLSC minutes 29th May - Fisher Speaks (10 Viewers)

georgehudson · Jun 4, 2013

just a guess tho' with sisu continuing in charge,
fanbase less than 5,000,
with new owners 15,000 +
the fans have endured 5+ years of catastrophic control under our present owners,
there is a dwindling number as it stands,
diehard fans are becoming increasingly angry,
sisu have admitted mistakes & continue to make more,
yet still seem to plead that they are aggrieved,
if there is any doubt, ask the fans,
sisu through their own crass ineptitude have alienated fans

James Smith · Jun 4, 2013

Just thinking what sort of books you might need to read to be a modern successful football club owner.

A guide to the Cayman Islands by Ivalott Adebt
Where's Joy (a bit dull this one as it's just pages of picture with random women in it as no one knows what she looks like)
How to win court cases and alienate fans by Arthur Mindto & Seeu Incourt
Catastrophic Insolvency for beginners. by Ichar jalot
Building your own stadium quickly, by Usin Glotsof & Leg O'Bricks

SkyblueBazza · Jun 4, 2013

stupot07 said:
Man U
Man c
Arsenal
Tottenham
Chelsea
Liverpool
Everton
Fulham
Norwich
Southampton
Sunderland
Newcastle
Cardiff
Villa
Wednesday
Sheff utd
Ipswich
Forest
Derby
Stoke
Middlesboro
Leicester
Blues
WBA
Wolves
Swansea
Leeds
Bolton
Blackburn
West ham
Qpr
Reading

There's 32 teams that are bigger than us, arguably so are wigan, palace, the there's teams like Watford Burnley and hull charlton that have been in the PL more recently than us.

Portsmouth have an fa cup, PNE have a rich historic past.

This website analysis performance by decade to calculate your size...according to this we're 37th....time to take those skyblue tinted glasses off

http://www.bigclubornot.co.uk/coventrycity.html

A big "OUCH"!

Spionkop · Jun 4, 2013

QPR, Bolton, Blackburn, Swansea, Middlesboro, Stoke, Ipswich, Norwich, Sheffield, Leicester, Reading all POTENTIALLY bigger than them. With the emphasis on POTENTIAL. Sure we're languishing now, but get decent owners and even a whiff of an upward turn and people long starved of hope would come back. I'm a diehard who won't go to Walsall, just can't stand anyone talking down my club.

sky blue john · Jun 4, 2013

At least we don't have to worry about fisher being out of work. He has been approached by the BBC they want to revive Jackanory !!!

Sky Blues · Jun 4, 2013

stupot07 said:
Man U
Man c
Arsenal
Tottenham
Chelsea
Liverpool
Everton
Fulham
Norwich
Southampton
Sunderland
Newcastle
Cardiff
Villa
Wednesday
Sheff utd
Ipswich
Forest
Derby
Stoke
Middlesboro
Leicester
Blues
WBA
Wolves
Swansea
Leeds
Bolton
Blackburn
West ham
Qpr
Reading

There's 32 teams that are bigger than us, arguably so are wigan, palace, the there's teams like Watford Burnley and hull charlton that have been in the PL more recently than us.

Portsmouth have an fa cup, PNE have a rich historic past.

This website analysis performance by decade to calculate your size...according to this we're 37th....time to take those skyblue tinted glasses off

http://www.bigclubornot.co.uk/coventrycity.html

According to your source we are bigger than QPR, Swansea, Reading and Norwich, but smaller than Barnsley, Grimsby, Charlton and Bury...

http://www.bigclubornot.co.uk/bigclubindex.html

stupot07 · Jun 4, 2013

dongonzalos said:
Effectively

SISU screwed ACL in such a way that they and the council were very reluctantly exploring the possibly of SISU taking over half of ACL. With SISU manipulating it to get it for dirt cheap.

This is where the story gets muddy.

If Tims dates are accurate meetings were taking place before we stopped paying rent, and at the time the HoT were signed with with the council we ha only stopped paying rent for 2-3 months and ACL had received payment from the Escrow. So the dates don't tally up with your assertion that the parties only spoke to sisu because they had screwed ACL to such an extent that they were desperate.

skybluesam66 · Jun 4, 2013

its like the end of a marriage - the guilty partner is trying to come up with many actions to justify his actions

I would guess its 80% sisu blame and 20% ACL and council, as there appears to be a difficulty in telling the full truth on both sides
The only thing I really do not get, is what benefit do sisu think they will get by staying around, and they must realise that they are digging a bigger and bigger hole

Godiva · Jun 4, 2013

stupot07 said:
This is where the story gets muddy.

If Tims dates are accurate meetings were taking place before we stopped paying rent, and at the time the HoT were signed with with the council we ha only stopped paying rent for 2-3 months and ACL had received payment from the Escrow. So the dates don't tally up with your assertion that the parties only spoke to sisu because they had screwed ACL to such an extent that they were desperate.

Correct.

It seems pretty obvious that Hoffman/Elliott charmed their way into the hearts of both Higgs and CCC at that time.

stupot07 · Jun 4, 2013

Sky Blues said:
According to your source we are bigger than QPR, Swansea, Reading and Norwich, but smaller than Barnsley, Grimsby, Charlton and Bury...

http://www.bigclubornot.co.uk/bigclubindex.html

I found it after I wrote my list.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jun 4, 2013

Godiva said:
Correct.

It seems pretty obvious that Hoffman/Elliott charmed their way into the hearts of both Higgs and CCC at that time.

"charmed their way" - what an unusual and interesting choice of phrase.....

torchomatic · Jun 4, 2013

Don't forget though when it comes to any criticism of JE, GH, ACL, CCC, PWKH there are a lot of fingers in ears with people going "la, la, la, la".

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
"charmed their way" - what an unusual and interesting choice of phrase.....

Godiva · Jun 4, 2013

ccfcway said:
Meeting with Tim Fisher

They should put a statue of Joy Seppala outside the ground for the £45m she has put into the club.

Sod the statue ... I'd be much more interested in seeing bank statements to support those '£45m' he claim she has put into the club.

dongonzalos · Jun 4, 2013

stupot07 said:
This is where the story gets muddy.

If Tims dates are accurate meetings were taking place before we stopped paying rent, and at the time the HoT were signed with with the council we ha only stopped paying rent for 2-3 months and ACL had received payment from the Escrow. So the dates don't tally up with your assertion that the parties only spoke to sisu because they had screwed ACL to such an extent that they were desperate.

They would have been saying they will not be able to pay the rent before then.

Once it starts getting paid from escrow that is it not getting paid.

SkyblueBazza · Jun 4, 2013

torchomatic said:
Don't forget though when it comes to any criticism of JE, GH, ACL, CCC, PWKH there are a lot of fingers in ears with people going "la, la, la, la".

That's because of the "anything is better than SISU" mentality...Venky's? Bates?...& there are many others who's clubs have ha owners they would recommend (but only out of spite!)

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jun 4, 2013

torchomatic said:
Don't forget though when it comes to any criticism of JE, GH, ACL, CCC, PWKH there is a lot of fingers in ears and people going "la, la, la, la".

I've no problem with factually based criticism however -

Why was it "obvious" that it was "at that time" that (to use a less loaded phrase) contact was made / discussions were had etc etc. I'd expect that discussions had been kept warm since the original GH backed bid had been made. But why not make an assertion and not bother to back it up with any facts.

And after we've done that, why not choose our wording carefully? I've been involved in many business deals and I've yet to hear the phrase "charmed their way...." used. Perhaps it was just a poor choice of words, but "charmed" suggests something slightly underhand, not above board, bit questionable - as in "he charmed his way into her pants".

So let's make an unsubstantiated accusation and add a little loaded phrasing.

If you're happy with that Torchy that's fine. To be honest had it been many other posters I wouldn't have bothered commenting but Godiva is usually better than that.

luwalla · Jun 4, 2013

stupot07 said:
Man U
Man c
Arsenal
Tottenham
Chelsea
Liverpool
Everton
Fulham
Norwich
Southampton
Sunderland
Newcastle
Cardiff
Villa
Wednesday
Sheff utd
Ipswich
Forest
Derby
Stoke
Middlesboro
Leicester
Blues
WBA
Wolves
Swansea
Leeds
Bolton
Blackburn
West ham
Qpr
Reading

There's 32 teams that are bigger than us, arguably so are wigan, palace, the there's teams like Watford Burnley and hull charlton that have been in the PL more recently than us.

Portsmouth have an fa cup, PNE have a rich historic past.

This website analysis performance by decade to calculate your size...according to this we're 37th....time to take those skyblue tinted glasses off

http://www.bigclubornot.co.uk/coventrycity.html

sorry to say but even this list isnt really a true reflection.. youve got clubs like brighton, doncaster, watford, crystal palace etc that are all bigger than us.. in both terms of attendance , league position & prospect.. take away the attendance, and you can even start throwing in clubs like Blackpool etc, IE. those that maybe have slightly lower attendance than us but whom sit in a far better league position & retain a higher profile & possibility to be promoted.

it aint pretty to read , but its time to face facts.. we are nowhere, with very little prospect ( currently at least anyway ).. and its going ot be a had , bloody battle to just get back on par with the likes of Blackpool, Brighton, Doncastor etc.. let alone into the top 25!

dongonzalos · Jun 4, 2013

Godiva said:
Correct.

It seems pretty obvious that Hoffman/Elliott charmed their way into the hearts of both Higgs and CCC at that time.

I think so and who can blame them.

You feel like you are about to be forced to go further into business with someone you don't trust.

That you are hesitant about whether it is the right thing to do or not.

Then someone comes along and says I can give you an alternative and I want to go down the route you want to go down.

Then you see a possible way of removing the people you really don't trust.

What would you do?

mattylad · Jun 4, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
Why would they do that rather than just say straight out no deal would or could be done?

because the greedy farmer realised the golden cow paying its stupidly high rent had clocked on to the fact that it was. To try and placate said cow they offered to let it buy part of the milking shed but only if it paid a golden cow level price for the milk! Golden cow having already been took for a fool once said but its my milk! I produce it! The farmer said ahh yes but we also get milk from other cows. Golden cow then thought well ok you won't need mine then! This made the farmer very angry as he had to get the local laird to bail him out so the bank didnt take the farm back! Now that might sound far fetched but this whole thing is one sick pantomime and this information needs to come out...its the reason why a lot of people have been banging on about the fact that no one is blameless in this!

dongonzalos · Jun 4, 2013

SkyblueBazza said:
That's because of the "anything is better than SISU" mentality...Venky's? Bates?...& there are many others who's clubs have ha owners they would recommend (but only out of spite!)

Venkys, making stupid decisions, alienating the fans. Getting Blackburn tumbling down the league.

Seem to have no idea how to run a football club, sound familiar.

ajsccfc · Jun 4, 2013

This hypothetical hierarchy of 'big teams' is beyond pointless. If we're 24th 'biggest' team, what does that do for us while we languish in league one with no idea what's going to even become of us by August?

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 4, 2013

mattylad said:
Now that might sound far fetched but this whole thing is one sick pantomime and this information needs to come out...its the reason why a lot of people have been banging on about the fact that no one is blameless in this!

I know it's an unfair question so don't feel you have to answer, but what level's your information from?

sky blue john · Jun 4, 2013

torchomatic said:
Don't forget though when it comes to any criticism of JE, GH, ACL, CCC, PWKH there are a lot of fingers in ears with people going "la, la, la, la".

Must be like Sisu's the only game in town ?

dongonzalos · Jun 4, 2013

sky blue john said:
Must be like Sisu's the only game in town ?

Only one of 8 games in town

mattylad · Jun 4, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
I know it's an unfair question so don't feel you have to answer, but what level's your information from?

Its from the club side but not the top of the club.

SkyblueBri · Jun 4, 2013

I have had a season ticket for a long time but now NOT ONE PENNY MORE.

I am sick of all this spin every time SISU call a fans forum just before the new season I have gone and fallen for their story that next season will be better.

Having read these minutes it reminds me of what SISU did to our share holders, they want everything on their terms, the fans and the team do not matter only the bottom line and this they have cocked up big time.

Now I do not care who is right or who is wrong SISU have ground me down.

If we get new owners I will be there again

torchomatic · Jun 4, 2013

And you're no doubt also happy when people say that if SISU had got hold of the stadium then they would have wound the club up and just reaped the rewards of the complex. An "unsubstantiated accusation" that people trot out as truth. There is a lot of mis-information on all sides of this dispute. It's not as black and white as "it's all down to Fisher" regardless of how unpopular that view is.

Constantly repeating "ACL are whiter than white" isn't going to necessarily make it true.

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
I've no problem with factually based criticism however -

Why was it "obvious" that it was "at that time" that (to use a less loaded phrase) contact was made / discussions were had etc etc. I'd expect that discussions had been kept warm since the original GH backed bid had been made. But why not make an assertion and not bother to back it up with any facts.

And after we've done that, why not choose our wording carefully? I've been involved in many business deals and I've yet to hear the phrase "charmed their way...." used. Perhaps it was just a poor choice of words, but "charmed" suggests something slightly underhand, not above board, bit questionable - as in "he charmed his way into her pants".

So let's make an unsubstantiated accusation and add a little loaded phrasing.

If you're happy with that Torchy that's fine. To be honest had it been many other posters I wouldn't have bothered commenting but Godiva is usually better than that.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jun 4, 2013

torchomatic said:
And you're no doubt also happy when people say that if SISU had got hold of the stadium then they would have wound the club up and just reaped the rewards of the complex. An "unsubstantiated accusation" that people trot out as truth. There is a lot of mis-information on all sides of this dispute. It's not as black and white as "it's all down to Fisher" regardless of how unpopular that view is.

Constantly repeating "ACL are whiter than white" isn't going to necessarily make it true.

As I said, had the post been by many people, I'd have ignored it. Whilst I frequently disagree with Godiva, he's a decent poster - which is why I questioned this post.

Re the "if SISU got hold of the stadium....", personally, I prefer to try to stick to the facts.

I was supportive of SISU when they came in - as I would be of any new owner, if some form of takeover were to happen. However the way that they have managed the club, particularly in the last couple of years has convinced me of the need for change.

If you look back, you'll see my criticisms of them have been based on what they've said and done.

To be honest, there's so much ammunition there, there's no need to speculate about other things they might do!

RogerH · Jun 4, 2013

But surely, ACL are only involved in stadium related issues, for 5 years SISU have been in charge of running the football club, and have demonstrated time after time that they are entirely unfit for purpose, however much money they allege they have spent. (Poor communication, no PR or bad PR, alienating fans (customers in their eyes), failure to build proper working relationships with stakeholders, still no credible long term plan that will take fans with them). Strange how ACL, Council and Higgs have had productive discussions with both the Haskell group and the Far East Consortium ? People are just sick of it all and want a fresh start, with a club that is properly run by people who actually care about the club, and of course a team that plays in the City it's supposed to play in. I do not believe we will ever achieve this with SISU in charge.

Sky blue north east · Jun 4, 2013

45 million my ass hole!!! What a complete load bull, well there certainly aint been much going into the playing side,buying freebies and past it players and paying peanut wages!!!!! And build a fecking statue this man is more deluded than tango ken how can anyone take this fat puppett of a man seriously anymore complete and utter knob!!!!!

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 4, 2013

RogerH said:
Strange how ACL, Council and Higgs have had productive discussions with both the Haskell group

Strange indeed.

dongonzalos · Jun 4, 2013

Sky blue north east said:
45 million my ass hole!!! What a complete load bull, well there certainly aint been much going into the playing side,buying freebies and past it players and paying peanut wages!!!!! And build a fecking statue this man is more deluded than tango ken how can anyone take this fat puppett of a man seriously anymore complete and utter knob!!!!!

Tim is looking out for his long term future and sucking up to Joy.

Which is good as his long term future will not involve CCFC.

A judge in open court has questioned Joy's recollection of events in matters such of these.

He just about stopped short of calling her a liar.

This should not be forgotten when Tim reals off this tale, which includes parts only the council and Joy can clarify

play_in_skyblue_stripes · Jun 4, 2013

Maybe this biggest 25 is going off tangent from this thread. However here is my assessment.

This is how I view things base on 45 years of watching football.

14 bigger for sure and maybe 2 or 3 other debatable ones as well. I think about 9 are about the same size.
So absolutely for sure we are in the biggest 25 clubs. The city of Coventry itself is in top 10 for population so thats a clue. The problem Coventry have is limited catchment area, team likes Norwich, Southampton and to a degree Leicester benefit with more outside fans who have no-one else around

Definite Bigger clubs
------------------------
Arsenal
Aston Villa
Chelsea
Everton
Leeds
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United
Nottingham Forest
Newcastle
Sheffield Wednesday
Tottenham
West Ham
Wolves

Possible bigger clubs
-------------------------
Derby
WBA
Sunderland

Similar Size
-------------
Southampton
Norwich
Birmingham
Sheffield United
Portsmouth
Stoke
Ipswich
Crystal Palace
Leicester

Smaller
--------
Fulham
QPR
Reading
Swansea
Wigan
Blackburn
Burnley
Bolton
Blackpool
Bristol City
Brighton
Cardiff - might be similar
Charlton
Huddersfield
Hull
Middlesboro
Millwall
Peterboro
Watford
Barnsley

Teams in league 1 or below all smaller except previously mentioned Portsmouth and Sheffield United which are similar in size

ajsccfc · Jun 4, 2013

How do you personally define 'size'? Because as a club 'smaller' than us, Blackburn have won the league in the last 20 years and been at least partly relevant in the past dozen years.

RPHunt · Jun 4, 2013

When the people running SISU are prepared to be less than truthful in court, it is very likely that they are prepared to stand in front of a group of fans and tell a pack of lies. How anyone can give them any credence baffles me.

CCLSC minutes 29th May - Fisher Speaks (10 Viewers)

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