Who's saying they're trying to Buy it.
Do you think they have a cat in hells chance after this Debacle.
The process is to Knock it over and gain for peanuts ,whats not to get.
CET: Nene park a potential new "home" (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter skyblu3sk
- Start date
Who's saying they're trying to Buy it.
Do you think they have a cat in hells chance after this Debacle.
The process is to Knock it over and gain for peanuts ,whats not to get.
H
Harry Grout
Guest
In total agreement with you OSB, it is and continues to be a PR own goal, he is endearing himself to no-one, other than SISU as their mouthpiece. I can't see the strategy here at all other trying to force ACL out of business and a share of the stadium by default.
Here's a thought though, if any of us had a couple of million lying idle from a lotto win, would we invest it in CCFC (as we all think we would) or in this case send it ACL's way to help ward off the SISU VULTURES?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
haven't got the figures to hand but the shareholders get a return from SBS&L by dividend if they are not going to get their loans repaid. The deficit on SBS&L reserves is £20m +? (i know 2010 was £17m in deficit) That means that the group has to make £20m+ (edit 2011 show 34m losses for the group) profits before it can even think about making a distribution to shareholders. Unless the team is successful making profits then CCFC's value doesnt change from current value £0 so no gain there either. Not going to happen any time soon then.
They could repay some of the loans each year but again to do that they need positive not negative cashflow - they need to make profits to do that. It also means that positive cash flow is not reinvested in the team, because it goes to repay loans and then probably cant be accessed again. Or perhaps they charge interest on all loans to get a return.... that just means bigger losses or less profit at CCFC. Not really what TF has been saying and would not benefit CCFC but a definite possibility
The only income source to the group is CCFC & CCFCH - fact
The only way to get a reasonable return in short or medium term is to add to the balance sheet the long lease ACL holds - not 50% of it as that has a low sell on value because it gives no control - they need 100% (as cheap as they can). If they distress ACL to administration to do it then they dont have to buy through CCFC and can use the purchase through the administrators to directly repay their investors by selling the site on and leave CCFC exactly as it is. Once they have their investors & loans repaid and their fee for doing it then it is not inconceivable that they wind up the SBS&L Group. Not good news for CCFC at all SISU owning the lease
So which is SISU's biggest problem/aim - a struggling L1 team or the repayment of £40m to their investors ? Who employs SISU? Where do SISU make their money ?
Just giving possibilities for future events ..... thinking out loud if you like :thinking about:
They could repay some of the loans each year but again to do that they need positive not negative cashflow - they need to make profits to do that. It also means that positive cash flow is not reinvested in the team, because it goes to repay loans and then probably cant be accessed again. Or perhaps they charge interest on all loans to get a return.... that just means bigger losses or less profit at CCFC. Not really what TF has been saying and would not benefit CCFC but a definite possibility
The only income source to the group is CCFC & CCFCH - fact
The only way to get a reasonable return in short or medium term is to add to the balance sheet the long lease ACL holds - not 50% of it as that has a low sell on value because it gives no control - they need 100% (as cheap as they can). If they distress ACL to administration to do it then they dont have to buy through CCFC and can use the purchase through the administrators to directly repay their investors by selling the site on and leave CCFC exactly as it is. Once they have their investors & loans repaid and their fee for doing it then it is not inconceivable that they wind up the SBS&L Group. Not good news for CCFC at all SISU owning the lease
So which is SISU's biggest problem/aim - a struggling L1 team or the repayment of £40m to their investors ? Who employs SISU? Where do SISU make their money ?
Just giving possibilities for future events ..... thinking out loud if you like :thinking about:
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Why would they wind up a company once they'd covered all loans and fee's? Surely a sell on would be more profitable ...
The long lease is probably also much more worth with a viable football club as tenant.
BurbageSkyBlues
New Member
Just about the most sensible summary of this pathetically insulting situation, contrived by the sisu clowns.
For a start....
1. They are disagreeing over a difference of rent , somewhere in the region of £100k per year (approx)........so how much would it cost to 'move' to Nene park.....? A damn sight more
2. If they can fill the ground, with season ticket holders plus a few more, they lose out on approx 4000 * £15 = £60k per home match
3. Half the season ticket holders demand a refund = 2500* 0.5**£300 =£375k
Total no brainer, pathetic posturing by fisher, and I for one am totally insulted that he thinks we, as CCFC fans, can't see this.
Bluegloucester
New Member
How will they purchase the lease, they are potless?
If sisu has recovered their clients money then they have two options:
1) As OSB says - wind up the company (maybe the unpaid loans provide some tax benefits)
2) Write off the unpaid loans and sell the club at a cut down price (like asset value plus a bit)
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Yes with a viable club it would be worth more but if it still made losses what would you do if your belief was money was king and had no passion for the club, but had a charge over its assets...... maybe keep it going to sell the lease interest then say "it doesnt work we have to shut it down" ? Ok then could sell the assets on but that isnt going to raise much. These people have no compunction about maximising the return then chopping anything that brings that down. I didnt say they would i said they could, maybe they would sell the club but who would buy it with the debts we have?
cloughie
Well-Known Member
Ronnie Lane wrote oh la la including the words 'I wish that i knew now, when I was younger' i
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Crucial thing I suppose is that most of the debt is in the form of accumulated loans from SISU-so the amount of debt to be paid back very much depends on how much they want back. Obviously they'd like the whole hog but accept if they ever want out whilst recouping the maximum amount possible then they will have to take a hit-still looking at tens of millions on this alone mind.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
The club should increase ticket prices by £4 for non season ticket holders and away fans, that would bring in the additional £200k in the remaining 12-13 home games.
That way the council and Higgs don't get shafted and TF gets the level of rent he wants. Everyone's a winner.
That way the council and Higgs don't get shafted and TF gets the level of rent he wants. Everyone's a winner.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
thats why i put the original post as i did BSB though. They get hold of ACL in SBS&L not in CCFC. That means that any loans in SBS&L get paid but the debts in CCFC remain where they are. The club effectively still owe SBS&L 10's of millions but the SISU investors loans will have been repaid largely if not totally
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't even need to do that-also included in the £400k was full access to matchday revenue, which over a year would contribute a fair bit (six figures) in itself.
Its all in the Subtleties is'nt it.:facepalm:
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I was replying to OSB, who said their priorities are: RICOH 1st, CCFC 2nd, (could be true) and if they got the RICOH, they wouldn't support CCFC and wouldn't go on a prem drive... That's why I said for 100% share we'd have to be in the prem, 50% share is max they can get, and that wouldn't make up their money fast enough thus, they'd have make a drive for the prem, to protect their investment.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Funny how people are calling TF an imbecile etc. but realistically it isn't a viable option, anyway, there are better options locally (Nuneaton). This is a scare tactic, and for people to take it in and treatit with such seriousness, they are the imbeciles.
We aren't moving out of the RICOH.
What would I do?
First of all - I am not creative enough to come up with a conspiracy like the one you suggest.
But if I was that cunning, I would make sure the loans were conveted to shares and exchanged with the long lease. This way I (and not my clients) would own the club.
Then I would make sure the club run at a profit (rent at £150k/yr) and then sell it to a consortium lead by a passionate and influential fan.
The sell price would be the assets plus 4-5x the yearly profit.
Maybe it would take a couple of years, but as the profit would end up in my own pocket I would have the necessary patience to wait.
If I can't run the club at a profit including player trades, then I would issue shares - there may be some fans who would buy if the money went to fund player wages.
If the club still can't get into black figures, I would wind it up. (And walk away with the same amount I have spent: £0, but having charged a few quid for my service down the line).
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It which case it's a pretty poor scare tactic.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
The deal offered is decent tbf, I'll admit that, but at the time we got offered 50% the majority said we should've took it*, 4-5 months later they offer 67%, more uproar... If the trend continues we could get a deal that suits CCFC, don't we all want the best deal for CCFC?
Serious question - if the renegade tactics work, and we get 300k, 300k backdated to 8months ago and 100% match day revenue (this is an example). Would you rather, with hindsight, take the current deal, or the new improved deal?
*at this point I said no, don't take, they'll reduce it even more, which they have, and I'm going to predict they'll reduce it even more.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I'd rather we not have to resort to all the pathetic and unprofessional tactics TF has seen fit to employ.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That's not the question - which deal would you prefer!?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Indeed, but it is still a 'scare tactic', ACL should know it's a bluff and it's unviable in many ways etc.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Well...I guess if this comes off all the hard-core "SISU out" brigade will be happy. SISU WILL be OUT...just that they'll be taking the ball with them?
Bennets Afro
Well-Known Member
Are SISU allowed to let the club get wound up if it all goes wrong????
They own the club, but the money used to purchase it, is that of their investors? Would THEY allow it. They obviously want a return else they would of cut their losses ages ago...
They own the club, but the money used to purchase it, is that of their investors? Would THEY allow it. They obviously want a return else they would of cut their losses ages ago...
Billy Blofeld
New Member
Worst case SISU are planning on winding CCFC up and want to paint ACL as the bad guys to blame.....
SkyBlueBlood
Member
Nene Park = 6500 capacity
Bedworth Oval = highest attendance in non league 5127
May as well go up the road
Bedworth Oval = highest attendance in non league 5127
May as well go up the road
Baginton
New Member
Is the Oval anywhere near League approved ? probably not !:thinking about:
sky blue zam
Member
heres my take on it all, i think everybody agrees the current rent is shockingly high.
what if the fisher has gone to rushden council enquiring about nene park and gone through the fa and fl. he may have offered 50k a season to rent their ground so a saving of way over 1million, with permission fro fa and fl.
lets face it the fa have bent over everyway
they could to help pompey and a stadium thats been empty for a while could entice "local" fans back and you will get some die hard season ticket holders there aswell
sisu aint gave a toss about ccfc and never will so why would they not do it.
in my view they should show the passion they claim to have for ccfc and take the acl offer or just feck off.
just my view though si slag off if you will, lol
what if the fisher has gone to rushden council enquiring about nene park and gone through the fa and fl. he may have offered 50k a season to rent their ground so a saving of way over 1million, with permission fro fa and fl.
lets face it the fa have bent over everyway
they could to help pompey and a stadium thats been empty for a while could entice "local" fans back and you will get some die hard season ticket holders there aswell
sisu aint gave a toss about ccfc and never will so why would they not do it.
in my view they should show the passion they claim to have for ccfc and take the acl offer or just feck off.
just my view though si slag off if you will, lol
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Haven't time to look up the rest
But I assure you said those comments.
I know this was about Nene, but this was your stance regarding us moving at all.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So you've proved I didn't say it. Cheers.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
a quick scan of some of the political threads on this forum would suggest so.
