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SBbucks

Well-Known Member
Shannerz said:
Hmm. I concede this. I think you're right, but it's a strange one if no attacking player has played the ball. You'd think the deflection clause is written with a deflection from an attacking pass in mind.

Anyway, it's given, so all good for us.
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Thank you, a voice of reason at last!
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
@SBbucks

I bid you goodnight and leave you with this

here is the whole of law 11 which explains why the norwich player heading the ball before it deflected off the other player would have meant it was onside even if it wasn't a throw in


2. Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
  • interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
  • interfering with an opponent by:
    • preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
    • challenging an opponent for the ball or
    • clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
    • making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

or
  • gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
    • rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
    • been deliberately saved by any opponent
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately played* the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.

*‘Deliberate play’ (excluding deliberate handball) is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:

  • passing the ball to a team-mate;
  • gaining possession of the ball; or
  • clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it)
If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball.

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, can be considered to have ‘deliberately played’ the ball:

  • The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
  • The ball was not moving quickly
  • The direction of the ball was not unexpected
  • The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited
    contact/control
  • A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air
A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

In situations where:

  • a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and impedes the opponent's progress (e.g blocks the opponent) the offence should be penalised under Law 12
  • a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence
  • an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge
3. No offence

There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:
  • a goal kick
  • a throw-in
  • a corner kick
 
Lamps

Lamps

Well-Known Member
SBbucks said:
Thank you, a voice of reason at last!
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Did you not read the FA rules I posted? The ball was deliberately played by the defender. It hit a team mate. If the GK had touched the ball it would have been deemed a save then offside.

Edit. Posted exactly the same as above but not done as clearly.
 
S

skyblue025

Well-Known Member
As a referee of over 20 years, he wasn't offside. To have been offside he would have had to receive a pass/deflection from a team mate. This clears it up.

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately played* the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.
 
Lamps

Lamps

Well-Known Member
skyblue025 said:
As a referee of over 20 years, he wasn't offside. To have been offside he would have had to receive a pass/deflection from a team mate. This clears it up.

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately played* the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.
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Spot on.

The deliberate save would normally be a touch from the GK with the ball going towards the goal.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
SBbucks said:
Pete, as someone who understands the laws of the game, what are your thoughts on the onside/offside debate?
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lol no one does
It looks like the Oxford striker is in an offside position but the Norwich player heads it against a Norwich player and it ricochets to the striker who scores
Goal absolutely fine
If however it Ricochets of an Oxford player and to the striker in an offside position it’s offside
For me the assistant should flag and they should discuss who it came off and they don’t assume the ref was talking to his assistant saying no Oxford touch
It doesn’t matter if the Oxford player deliberately played the ball it only has to touch them

So did it touch an Oxford player??? I can’t tell
 
Shannerz

Shannerz

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
lol no one does
It looks like the Oxford striker is in an offside position but the Norwich player heads it against a Norwich player and it ricochets to the striker who scores
Goal absolutely fine
If however it Ricochets of an Oxford player and to the striker in an offside position it’s offside
For me the assistant should flag and they should discuss who it came off and they don’t assume the ref was talking to his assistant saying no Oxford touch
It doesn’t matter if the Oxford player deliberately played the ball it only has to touch them

So did it touch an Oxford player??? I can’t tell
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No, I don't think so.

This is my gut instinct, it's a throw, only defenders touch the ball, thus it's onside.

*But* the law states that a player who receives the ball in an offside position via a deflection off an opponent (which he did) is then offside.

I no longer know if it's onside or not, and having followed the game for c40 years, to suddenly learn that you don't actually understand the offside law anymore is very embarrassing. 😂
 
Terry_dactyl

Terry_dactyl

Well-Known Member
Shannerz said:
No, I don't think so.

This is my gut instinct, it's a throw, only defenders touch the ball, thus it's onside.

*But* the law states that a player who receives the ball in an offside position via a deflection off an opponent (which he did) is then offside.

I no longer know if it's onside or not, and having followed the game for c40 years, to suddenly learn that you don't actually understand the offside law anymore is very embarrassing. 😂
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If that’s true, it’s news to me also. Crazy.
 
Shannerz

Shannerz

Well-Known Member
Terry_dactyl said:
If that’s true, it’s news to me also. Crazy.
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It's been quoted a few times, but here's the relevant clause:

"gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
  • rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent"
On the face of it, that does cover this. But I know longer no what's true, who I am or what' s even happening anymore. 😂
 
Terry_dactyl

Terry_dactyl

Well-Known Member
Shannerz said:
It's been quoted a few times, but here's the relevant clause:

"gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
  • rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent"
On the face of it, that does cover this. But I know longer no what's true, who I am or what' s even happening anymore. 😂
Click to expand...
I’m stubborn/stupid enough to ignore that. The goal was not offside. There.
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
I'm going to get a poster of law 11 to put up in the toilet.

I might just get it after a few years immersive reducation. 🤭
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Dunno why you’re all bothering yourselves with Boros results when Sunderland can still be caught tbh.
 
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