Ched Evans (1 Viewer)

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Jun 22, 2015

Samo said:
Its good to hear that an innocent man could live his life free of persecution and with no label following him...
Do your 'own opinions' exclude him from playing for a particular football club?

I don't think it would be ideal partly because firstly of the media interest and bad press it could whip up for the club, secondly I'd worry about the general fan reaction and possibly even lowering attendances further and lastly I don't think he is the type of character we should be signing as we've been down the road with signing players with crappy attitudes too many times over the years.

That said for me personally it wouldn't stop me attending, if I excluded everyone who I thought was a shitty human being I'd have had to stop supporting years ago.

Samo · Jun 22, 2015

CCFC said:
I don't think it would be ideal partly because firstly of the media interest and bad press it could whip
up for the club, secondly I'd worry about the general fan reaction and possibly even lowering attendances further and lastly I don't think he is the type of character we should be signing as we've been down the road with signing players with crappy attitudes too many times over the years.

That said for me personally it wouldn't stop me attending, if I excluded everyone who I thought was a shitty human being I'd have had to stop supporting years ago.

I agree it would not be ideal for the practical reasons you mention. Your second point I agree with entirely.
My only worry would be that he remained 'guilty' and was treated as a guilty man, how ever much of a shit he may be.

Astute · Jun 23, 2015

Huckerby said:
Guys a scumbag still, just might not have "raped" her.

I wouldn't mind him here if it was overturned.

Huckerby said:
Where did I say i'd like him to join us? That's not even a subtle twisting of my words...

The bloke is a nasty piece of work. He is still a nasty piece of work even if he gets it overturned. A very good player for our level. But no thanks. Full stop.

Astute · Jun 23, 2015

Samo said:
As I say, I take your point. But interpretation of the law should be left to lawyers. You seemed to suggest earlier that should those lawyers not find in the way you find agreeable then there is room for your own verdict. We are not armed with all the nuances and detail of the case and yet it seems most are more than willing to draw their own conclusions regardless of the legal system.

OK. This is what I remember of the case.

The players were out having a drink. She spent the evening drinking with the other player. I can't remember his name. They ended up going to a hotel room. You saw from the CCTV that she was very unsteady on her feet. The other player sent Evans a text saying he had a bit of stuff in his room. He sent a text back and then joined them Evans got a Taxi and joined them. He didn't go there as he had nowhere else to stay. His parents live 10 minutes away. Why did he go to the room? She couldn't remember what happened. It was the police that brought the case. They are only allowed to bring a case these days where the odds are well on the side of a successful prosecution. He was found guilty by a jury. The other player was found not guilty. Evans lost his appeal.

Which part would put his conviction in doubt?

Otis · Jun 23, 2015

Astute said:
OK. This is what I remember of the case.

The players were out having a drink. She spent the evening drinking with the other player. I can't remember his name. They ended up going to a hotel room. You saw from the CCTV that she was very unsteady on her feet. The other player sent Evans a text saying he had a bit of stuff in his room. He sent a text back and then joined them Evans got a Taxi and joined them. He didn't go there as he had nowhere else to stay. His parents live 10 minutes away. Why did he go to the room? She couldn't remember what happened. It was the police that brought the case. They are only allowed to bring a case these days where the odds are well on the side of a successful prosecution. He was found guilty by a jury. The other player was found not guilty. Evans lost his appeal.

Which part would put his conviction in doubt?

Well Astute, I am not at all showing any bias to Ched Evans at all and as far as I am concerned, he is a shit and I wouldn't want him here, but there are quite a few out there saying his conviction was unsafe.

I am merely saying that notion is out there. I do not subscribe to that myself, but you only need to look on the internet to see that there are people suggesting that is the case.

Otis · Jun 23, 2015

Such as this. This is from a female journalist covering the case - 'Only the Ched Evans story is far more problematic than that of a priapic predator in a dark underpass. I’ve spent two grim days reading about everything the former Welsh international did in a hotel in Rhyl in 2011. I have come to three conclusions. The first is that the verdict of the jury was inconsistent and quite possibly unsafe.'

And before anyone starts breathing down the back of the neck , I am only saying there is the notion out there to some, that the conviction was unsafe. This is not my own personal view on the matter. For me, he was guilty of rape and that still stands.

Huckerby · Jun 23, 2015

Astute said:
The bloke is a nasty piece of work. He is still a nasty piece of work even if he gets it overturned. A very good player for our level. But no thanks. Full stop.

"I wouldn't mind him here" and "I'd like him to join us" are not the same. Did you not realise that when digging up the posts to quote?

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 23, 2015

Otis said:
Such as this. This is from a female journalist covering the case - 'Only the Ched Evans story is far more problematic than that of a priapic predator in a dark underpass. I’ve spent two grim days reading about everything the former Welsh international did in a hotel in Rhyl in 2011. I have come to three conclusions. The first is that the verdict of the jury was inconsistent and quite possibly unsafe.'

And before anyone starts breathing down the back of the neck , I am only saying there is the notion out there to some, that the conviction was unsafe. This is not my own personal view on the matter. For me, he was guilty of rape and that still stands.

It's totally irrelevant what other people say, he was found guilty. People say all kinds of things and if we go Godwin, then Hitler didn't commit genocide t some.

Ultimately if you can't trust the rulings of law then you may as well open the gates to Onley, Strangeways, Dartmoor...

Otis · Jun 23, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's totally irrelevant what other people say, he was found guilty. People say all kinds of things and if we go Godwin, then Hitler didn't commit genocide t some.

Ultimately if you can't trust the rulings of law then you may as well open the gates to Onley, Strangeways, Dartmoor...

I agree. As I say, NW, this is NOT my view. To my mind he was found guilty and IS guilty. All I am saying is that some people seem to think the conviction is unsafe, nothing more.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 23, 2015

Otis said:
I agree. As I say, NW, this is NOT my view. To my mind he was found guilty and IS guilty. All I am saying is that some people seem to think the conviction is unsafe, nothing more.

Then why even mention somebody who says they're not guilty? It's as irrelevant as David Irving.

Astute · Jun 23, 2015

Huckerby said:
"I wouldn't mind him here" and "I'd like him to join us" are not the same. Did you not realise that when digging up the posts to quote?

Digging up posts? It was right before my one. The post that made me comment.

"I wouldn't mind him here" says just that. I would love us to get someone of his quality. But whatever is decided he has too much baggage. So I don't want him here. Not having a go. We have had enough players with baggage.

chiefdave · Jun 23, 2015

Astute said:
She couldn't remember what happened. It was the police that brought the case.

Have to admit I haven't read much on this case but how does this work? If the woman can't remember what happened and didn't make a complaint how do the police even get involved let alone get enough evidence to secure a prosecution.

How did they get from Evans and the other player, both of whom I assume deny rape, and a woman who can't remember what happened to a guilty verdict for one player and not the other?

Otis · Jun 23, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Then why even mention somebody who says they're not guilty? It's as irrelevant as David Irving.

This is why I hate written communication.

If you could hear the intonation of what I was saying you would see I agree with you.

I am only saying that SOME people seem to think the conviction is unsafe. SOME of these people appear to be people who have studied the case. That is why I have mentioned it. These are people who have followed and scrutinised the case.

I believe Evans submitted 'fresh' evidence in January. Just how long does new evidence take to be heard?

All I can reiterate is that he IS guilty, plain and simple. If there is new evidence then let's hear it!

JimmyHillsbeard · Jun 23, 2015

Samo said:
Yes. We were hypothesising about a successful appeal
.

Any news on Marlon King's appeal? I seem to recall that was important to many when he signed for us

Otis · Jun 23, 2015

JimmyHillsbeard said:
Any news on Marlon King's appeal? I seem to recall that was important to many when he signed for us

Yep. As I say, if there is any new evidence, let's hear it!!

The bloke is guilty as charged and words are cheap.

Hobo · Jun 23, 2015

Otis said:
This is why I hate written communication.

If you could hear the intonation of what I was saying you would see I agree with you.

I am only saying that SOME people seem to think the conviction is unsafe. SOME of these people appear to be people who have studied the case. That is why I have mentioned it. These are people who have followed and scrutinised the case.

I believe Evans submitted 'fresh' evidence in January. Just how long does new evidence take to be heard?

All I can reiterate is that he IS guilty, plain and simple. If there is new evidence then let's hear it!

The only thing I can think of was the other guy was with the woman prior to her being totally intoxicated. There may have been an indication sex would take place later, or, at what point didsex take place between them; meant a conviction would be unsafe. That is not to say there wasn't doubts about the ability to consent, hence the trial. But it appears Evans bowled up later for afters, long after she was able to give consent, which is why he was found guilty. That is my interpretation of looking at the evidence, you have to consider the timeline of events, not just two guys have sex with a girl one is found guilty the other innocent.

this was meant as a reply to ChiefDave's post above

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Jun 23, 2015

Hobo said:
The only thing I can think of was the other guy was with the woman prior to her being totally intoxicated. There may have been an indication sex would take place later, or, at what point didsex take place between them; meant a conviction would be unsafe. That is not to say there wasn't doubts about the ability to consent, hence the trial. But it appears Evans bowled up later for afters, long after she was able to give consent, which is why he was found guilty. That is my interpretation of looking at the evidence, you have to consider the timeline of events, not just two guys have sex with a girl one is found guilty the other innocent.

this was meant as a reply to ChiefDave's post above

I could be wrong but I don't think the woman had any more drink between meeting Mcdonald and having sex with Evans, the reason Mcdonald was found not guilty was because he was under the genuine belief he had consent and there was evidence to back that up (met up outside the bar, taxi ride home, willingly going back to the hotel room with Mcdonald). As you say Evans just rocked up later, unknown the the woman when the woman was already in bed with Mcdonald. The only evidence we have that she consented to have sex with Evans was Evans saying she did.

CJ_covblaze · Jun 23, 2015

At present he's guilty and shouldn't be anywhere near a football pitch. If a professional footballer can not hold a DBS he/she shouldn't have the opportunity to be one imo.

As a side note was he really that good? He had one good season and that was in L1. That was three years ago and due to his time inside he hasn't kicked a ball since. He wouldn't be worth the hassle with his criminal record if he had five good seasons in the Premier League let alone one in L1.

BornSlippySkyBlue · Jun 23, 2015

No thanks, not now, not after a successful appeal. Not ever thank you.

After the crap that signing King caused, there is no way on earth that the positives would outweigh the negatives if we signed Evans. And for that reason, I'm out!

PUSB

Hobo · Jun 23, 2015

Regardless of whether King and Evans are guilty or not guilty, one thing that shines through is character traits of arrogance and sulky petulance. A sort of I can because I am a footballer attitude.

I didn't want King here and certainly don't want Evans, because of attitude rather than what they may or may not have done. Potentially scoring loads of goals doesn't over ride their faulty characters/attitude.

Otis · Jun 23, 2015

Hobo said:
Regardless of whether King and Evans are guilty or not guilty, one thing that shines through is character traits of arrogance and sulky petulance. A sort of I can because I am a footballer attitude.

I didn't want King here and certainly don't want Evans, because of attitude rather than what they may or may not have done. Potentially scoring loads of goals doesn't over ride their faulty characters/attitude.

Yep agree. Exactly the sort of player we don't want here.

PlayUpSkyBlue · Jun 23, 2015

I would be extremely happy with the signing of Mr Evans.

Having signed Lee Hughes before why worry about Mr Evans.

sign him up.

Otis · Jun 23, 2015

PlayUpSkyBlue said:
I would be extremely happy with the signing of Mr Evans.

Having signed Lee Hughes before why worry about Mr Evans.

sign him up.

Only we signed Lee Hughes before he committed his crime and he had left the City at least a year before the incident took place.

Samo · Jun 23, 2015

PlayUpSkyBlue said:
I would be extremely happy with the signing of Mr Evans.

Having signed Lee Hughes before why worry about Mr Evans.

sign him up.

Haha! Train now arriving at WUMsville central.

Otis · Jun 23, 2015

Samo said:
Haha! Train now arriving at WUMsville central.

Ahh! So that's the name of the new station at the Ricoh!!

Thanks for that, Samo.

PlayUpSkyBlue · Jun 23, 2015

My bad on the timeframes being incorrect on the Hughes front.

however I believe we should still Sign Ched. We are hardly a family club with a casino in the ground anyway and our fans are already staying away - so where is the problem. We need goals and Mr Evans can score goals in this league. The focus is on AJ now anyway so Evans can sneak back into football.

Shakeitup · Jun 23, 2015

Troll alert. Maybe the Foxes forum is slow!

mark82 · Jun 23, 2015

PlayUpSkyBlue said:
My bad on the timeframes being incorrect on the Hughes front.

however I believe we should still Sign Ched. We are hardly a family club with a casino in the ground anyway and our fans are already staying away - so where is the problem. We need goals and Mr Evans can score goals in this league. The focus is on AJ now anyway so Evans can sneak back into football.

Not sure why you'd want to sign Ched Evans. Didn't he play for your biggest rivals?

skybluetony176 · Jun 23, 2015

PlayUpSkyBlue said:
My bad on the timeframes being incorrect on the Hughes front.

however I believe we should still Sign Ched. We are hardly a family club with a casino in the ground anyway and our fans are already staying away - so where is the problem. We need goals and Mr Evans can score goals in this league. The focus is on AJ now anyway so Evans can sneak back into football.

You're an idiot.

mark82 · Jun 23, 2015

PlayUpSkyBlue said:
My bad on the timeframes being incorrect on the Hughes front.

however I believe we should still Sign Ched. We are hardly a family club with a casino in the ground anyway and our fans are already staying away - so where is the problem. We need goals and Mr Evans can score goals in this league. The focus is on AJ now anyway so Evans can sneak back into football.

Lee Hughes killed one of our own. No ccfc fan wouldn't understand the situation. You've badly misjudged what I'm guessing was supposed to give you a bit of a giggle. Bet you're proud of yourself. Idiot.

Paxman II · Jun 23, 2015

People serve their time for their mistakes and society must accept that. We should not be making secondary judgements ourselves. The law that put him away is the law that let him out a free man now. He is entitled to follow a career path of his choosing. Morally some will have a problem and others not.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 23, 2015

Paxman II said:
People serve their time for their mistakes and society must accept that. We should not be making secondary judgements ourselves. The law that put him away is the law that let him out a free man now. He is entitled to follow a career path of his choosing. Morally some will have a problem and others not.

He wouldn't if he chose to be a teacher.

Or a social worker.

Or even a Librarian in some places.

Many places, he wouldn't even be let through the door to volunteer.

armybike · Jun 23, 2015

Paxman II said:
People serve their time for their mistakes and society must accept that. We should not be making secondary judgements ourselves. The law that put him away is the law that let him out a free man now. He is entitled to follow a career path of his choosing. Morally some will have a problem and others not.

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

PlayUpSkyBlue · Jun 23, 2015

Let's concentrate on football forget the past he's served the time.

sign him up!!!

I don't want us to be sat here in a few years all morally correct and still in League 1 when we can sign Ched and get out this league.

skybluetony176 · Jun 23, 2015

PlayUpSkyBlue said:
Let's concentrate on football forget the past he's served the time.

sign him up!!!

I don't want us to be sat here in a few years all morally correct and still in League 1 when we can sign Ched and get out this league.

You really are an idiot aren't you.

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