Chelsea interest in Callum Wilson (10 Viewers)

[Seaside-Skyblue]

It would need a massive fluke to get into the Premier League without millions pumped in.

Agreed. We'd literally need something along the lines of what Blackpool did and create some serious momentum. Think they only spent under a million (Charlie Adam) when they got into Prem.

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[zuni]

We get fates 3 times bigger than most clubs yet can't field a team which could be considered a force... We pay a peppercorn rent which compared to what it takes to maintain some of the older grounds is laughable... OK they get the money from a few pies and beer... While we pay management fees to the likes of Fisher we are in limbo, agree they have driven discipline but the club is being starved of its income from player sales

 

[Nick]

We get fates 3 times bigger than most clubs yet can't field a team which could be considered a force... We pay a peppercorn rent which compared to what it takes to maintain some of the older grounds is laughable... OK they get the money from a few pies and beer... While we pay management fees to the likes of Fisher we are in limbo, agree they have driven discipline but the club is being starved of its income from player sales

Is it though? People keep going on about the club not getting money from player sales but can never go into much detail about it.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Even from an unbiased perspective, that transfer/loan makes no sense on a number of levels. Firstly, I’m baffled that there is a recall clause in his loan to Milan considering they’d have likely paid a hefty sum for the loan deal to go through. You’ve also got to consider that, whilst he has a reasonable goal scoring record at club level, he’s getting on a bit and has a reputation of missing chances in high-pressure games. I believe he’s worked with Sarri before (may be wrong) but I really can’t see him pulling up trees in the Premier League. Not to say that Wilson wouldn’t be a massive risk considering his relative lack of pedigree and injury issues, but I see far more in a signing like him than Higuain.

I disagree completely. From an unbiased POV, signing Wilson for £70M+ would make no sense on a number of levels. His injury record over the course of his career is appalling for starters and there's a host of other reasons as well.
- He's only ever played one full season in his career without injury I believe.
- At nearly 27 he's not even that young.
- Although he's shown flashes in previous seasons in between injuries, he's not shown whether he can consistently score at the top level.
- Potentially could suffer from big fish in a small pond syndrome.

The Higuain transfer makes complete sense on the other hand.
- Worked with Sarri at Napoli where he got the best out of him
- Fantastic goalscoring record
- Not any evidence to suggest he's injury prone
- Don't have to pay a huge transfer fee. E.g. £70M+. Just big wages/loan fee which they won't be bothered about.
- Can cope with pressure caused by playing for a top club

 

[zuni]

Is it though? People keep going on about the club not getting money from player sales but can never go into much detail about it.

Is that because our owners won't be more open?

 

[SBAndy]

Is that because our owners won't be more open?

Name me a club below Premier League level who are open about their transfer dealings in terms of finances.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Name me a club below Premier League level who are open about their transfer dealings in terms of finances.

Peterborough

 

[Nick]

Is that because our owners won't be more open?

The accounts are open. They are analysed every year when they come out.

Have a look through those threads.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Is that because our owners won't be more open?

No, it’s because it doesn’t happen.

 

[skybluebeduff]

Is it though? People keep going on about the club not getting money from player sales but can never go into much detail about it.

The same for people who say the club gets the money, both sides can't seem to find definitive proof of either.

 

[Nick]

The same for people who say the club gets the money, both sides can't seem to find definitive proof of either.

Go through where the accounts are analysed.....

How many people don't look through those but rant about all the money being taken?

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

The same for people who say the club gets the money, both sides can't seem to find definitive proof of either.

Surely there is only one side we should be focusing on?

 

[skybluebeduff]

Go through where the accounts are analysed.....

How many people don't look through those but rant about all the money being taken?

Sorry mate but thousands who don't use this site aren't going to know that are they? And even in those analysed accounts their is nothing layed out about every penny being accounted for...

 

[fernandopartridge]

The same for people who say the club gets the money, both sides can't seem to find definitive proof of either.

It's pretty definitive as the club publishes it in accounts.

I am unsure how they account for transfer fees, as they're not paid in a lump sum. OSB might be able to advise whether they account for the whole fee or not, I'd imagine they do. There is a line for prepayments and accrued income which show money due in the year, for example in y/e 31/5/17 there is a value of £816k, suspect this is installments on the Maddison fee?

14/15 posted 'Profit on sales of player registrations' of £2.72m (Callum Wilson was sold in this year
15/16 posted 'Profit on sales of player registrations' of £2.48m (James Maddison was sold in this FY)
16/17 posted 'Profit on sales of player registrations' of £252k (unsure what this is made up of)

 

[skybluebeduff]

Surely there is only one side we should be focusing on?

Yeah trying to convince the stayaways that CCFC is more important than anything else, yet it's still an impossible task, because only one fan is analyzing the accounts professionally. It needs to be more public, for every fan to see.

 

[Nick]

Sorry mate but thousands who don't use this site aren't going to know that are they? And even in those analysed accounts their is nothing layed out about every penny being accounted for...

Of course it won't say "15% went on this, 20% went on this, 45% went on this" etc etc.I t does show the general ins and outs.

Surely if thousands of people want to rant about all of the money being taken out of the club the first thing should be to try and have a look to see if it's true or not? I have suggested to various people about a Q and A to give a bit of information but not much appetite for it.

I think the Telegraph have also published that loads of money isn't being taken out.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Go through where the accounts are analysed.....

How many people don't look through those but rant about all the money being taken?

To be honest Nick you've just proven @zuni 's point. The fact fans have to trawl through the club's accounts proves that there clearly exists a lack of communication between club and its fanbase - which in turn causes issues and wild fan theories. Fans shouldn't be expected to look at the clubs accounts to get simple information. The club know transfer fees are a widely discussed subject amongst disgruntled fans so why not just come out and say what the money is being used for. They won't win either way but at least they're being honest. Simply saying nothing doesn't help anything and fuels pessimism.

As paying fans, we shouldn't have to wait until the end of the financial year to find out answers.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's pretty definitive as the club publishes it in accounts.

I am unsure how they account for transfer fees, as they're not paid in a lump sum. OSB might be able to advise whether they account for the whole fee or not, I'd imagine they do. There is a line for prepayments and accrued income which show money due in the year, for example in y/e 31/5/17 there is a value of £816k, suspect this is installments on the Maddison fee?

14/15 posted 'Profit on sales of player registrations' of £2.72m (Callum Wilson was sold in this year
15/16 posted 'Profit on sales of player registrations' of £2.48m (James Maddison was sold in this FY)
16/17 posted 'Profit on sales of player registrations' of £252k (unsure what this is made up of)

Just to add to that, the some will see the word 'profit' and assume that it means those figures have been taken out every year.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

It's pretty definitive as the club publishes it in accounts.

I am unsure how they account for transfer fees, as they're not paid in a lump sum. OSB might be able to advise whether they account for the whole fee or not, I'd imagine they do. There is a line for prepayments and accrued income which show money due in the year, for example in y/e 31/5/17 there is a value of £816k, suspect this is installments on the Maddison fee?

14/15 posted 'Profit on sales of player registrations' of £2.72m (Callum Wilson was sold in this year
15/16 posted 'Profit on sales of player registrations' of £2.48m (James Maddison was sold in this FY)
16/17 posted 'Profit on sales of player registrations' of £252k (unsure what this is made up of)

Cian Harries? (16/17)

 

[skybluebeduff]

Of course it won't say "15% went on this, 20% went on this, 45% went on this" etc etc.I t does show the general ins and outs.

Surely if thousands of people want to rant about all of the money being taken out of the club the first thing should be to try and have a look to see if it's true or not? I have suggested to various people about a Q and A to give a bit of information but not much appetite for it.

I think the Telegraph have also published that loads of money isn't being taken out.

This is just an example, imagine 1000 stayways all saying SISU pocket the money, you show them the analyzed accounts but only 100 of them understand it, we're left with 900 fans still none the wiser.

It would be great to have them published for every fan to understand, that's my opinion anyway because it should help with people who are too confused with it. Just remember so many people are not experts nor anywhere near clued up to understand, which is a problem because they go on to believe things they see that aren't true.

 

[Nick]

To be honest Nick you've just proven @zuni 's point. The fact fans have to trawl through the club's accounts proves that there clearly exists a lack of communication between club and its fanbase - which in turn causes issues and wild fan theories. Fans shouldn't be expected to look at the clubs accounts to get simple information. The club know transfer fees are a widely discussed subject amongst disgruntled fans so why not just come out and say what the money is being used for. They won't win either way but at least they're being honest. Simply saying nothing doesn't help anything and fuels pessimism.

As paying fans, we shouldn't have to wait until the end of the financial year to find out answers.

Do you think if they put a statement on the website people would believe it and think "ah that explains it"?

It's been said multiple times that the money goes into running the club as it's self sufficient, Robins has said it multiple times. It goes ignored. Mainly because you then have people spinning the shit out of "all the money goes to SISU" over and over again on Social Media.

 

[Nick]

This is just an example, imagine 1000 stayways all saying SISU pocket the money, you show them the analyzed accounts but only 100 of them understand it, we're left with 900 fans still none the wiser.

It would be great to have them published for every fan to understand, that's my opinion anyway because it should help with people who are too confused with it. Just remember so many people are not experts nor anywhere near clued up to understand, which is a problem because they go on to believe things they see that aren't true.

It's pretty easy to understand the breakdowns of them.

I am not on about show them a copy of the accounts, just when people break them down and put them into simple terms.

I have given the links to people multiple times who are ranting and they have zero interest in having a look and just carry on as they were.

I made a point of asking fans groups if they would be interested in "myth busting". Why do you think they weren't?

People just generally aren't interesting in seeing if it's true before they say "SISU take all the money" or whatever. When you have people from fans groups giving interviews to the media making up reasons they boycott that aren't true either what do we expect?

 

[skybluebeduff]

To be honest Nick you've just proven @zuni 's point. The fact fans have to trawl through the club's accounts proves that there clearly exists a lack of communication between club and its fanbase - which in turn causes issues and wild fan theories. Fans shouldn't be expected to look at the clubs accounts to get simple information. The club know transfer fees are a widely discussed subject amongst disgruntled fans so why not just come out and say what the money is being used for. They won't win either way but at least they're being honest. Simply saying nothing doesn't help anything and fuels pessimism.

As paying fans, we shouldn't have to wait until the end of the financial year to find out answers.

This is exactly my point James.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Cian Harries? (16/17)

No, it's y/e 31 May 2017, I don't think he left until after that?

 

[Nick]

NEWS: Coventry City FC and parent company publish latest set of accounts

Here's an example of a basic breakdown.

Then you have a reply:



How simple do people want it to be?

It's the same as when SISU's accounts were published and people went apeshit not realising they weren't the clubs.

Unless people are willing to at least try and understand, there's not much point. Mostly, people have no interest and will believe what they want anyway even if it is explained.

 

[skybluebeduff]

NEWS: Coventry City FC and parent company publish latest set of accounts

Here's an example of a basic breakdown.

Then you have a reply:



How simple do people want it to be?

It's the same as when SISU's accounts were published and people went apeshit not realising they weren't the clubs.

Unless people are willing to at least try and understand, there's not much point.

I agree but we still have fans out there who aren't like that but remain just as confused.

 

[Nick]

I agree but we still have fans out there who aren't like that but remain just as confused.

Which is why I suggested to Fans groups to at least try and put a Q and A out with facts to clear them up.

Just found this on the telegraph in an article too:

Have the owners taken any money out of the club?

No - and they have made a commitment not to call in any loans or interest in the “foreseeable future”.

The fans are confused basically because people are purposely trying to mislead them about things like that to get them to boycott / get angry / protest.

It's what pisses me off. People purposely bullshit to try and put others off going to watch their team play. People then repeat it as fact to their mate who then also get wound up and rant.

 

[skybluegod]

I disagree completely. From an unbiased POV, signing Wilson for £70M+ would make no sense on a number of levels. His injury record over the course of his career is appalling for starters and there's a host of other reasons as well.
- He's only ever played one full season in his career without injury I believe.
- At nearly 27 he's not even that young.
- Although he's shown flashes in previous seasons in between injuries, he's not shown whether he can consistently score at the top level.
- Potentially could suffer from big fish in a small pond syndrome.

The Higuain transfer makes complete sense on the other hand.
- Worked with Sarri at Napoli where he got the best out of him
- Fantastic goalscoring record
- Not any evidence to suggest he's injury prone
- Don't have to pay a huge transfer fee. E.g. £70M+. Just big wages/loan fee which they won't be bothered about.
- Can cope with pressure caused by playing for a top club

Agree with a lot of this...
However in today's market Wilson is worth about 50 million simply because he's English, and a striker who can score, and has proven it over the last few years. I agree not worth 70 Million. In reality shouldn't be even 50 million, but just going by reality of the market.

On Higuain: Chelsea Chief executive doesn't think he is the solution, hence why he only agreed to a loan and not transfer. Also 8 goals in 22 appearances? 1 in 3 striker, Wilson's ratios are on the up, would suggest Higuain could be on the way down...

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Do you think if they put a statement on the website people would believe it and think "ah that explains it"?

It's been said multiple times that the money goes into running the club as it's self sufficient, Robins has said it multiple times. It goes ignored. Mainly because you then have people spinning the shit out of "all the money goes to SISU" over and over again on Social Media.

Why wouldn’t they? If as you say everything is laid out in the accounts at the end of the financial year then the club have nothing to lose by either posting a press release on their website or even hosting a Q&A perhaps. IMO whilst it wouldn’t directly solve the issue a statement from Dave Boddy regarding transfer earnings would go a long way and in fact would be appreciated by a significant proporton of our fanbase. Your solution to effectively do nothing is illogical.

Exactly yet again you’ve proven my point. It’s not MR’s job to discuss accounts and the fans know this. He’s in charge of the playing staff and players nothing else. He doesn’t set the budget does he? It’s clear those at board level will tell him beforehand what and what not to say to the press. But again, that’s useless as IMO it needs to come from the board.

That section of fans is never going to be convinced even if they had the accounts stapled to their foreheads. But I reiterate, for the club to remain silent on the matter doesn’t help their cause. Therefore to continue to remain silent will only serve to fuel those who claim “all the money goes to SISU.”

 

[Gibbo]

Yep Hugain in on loan until the end of the season. Looks likely Wilson isn’t going there for £50M

It maybe elsewhere in thread but Bournemouth value him at £75m now

 

[Nick]

Why wouldn’t they? If as you say everything is laid out in the accounts at the end of the financial year then the club have nothing to lose by either posting a press release on their website or even hosting a Q&A perhaps. IMO whilst it wouldn’t directly solve the issue a statement from Dave Boddy regarding transfer earnings would go a long way and in fact would be appreciated by a significant proporton of our fanbase. Your solution to effectively do nothing is illogical.

Exactly yet again you’ve proven my point. It’s not MR’s job to discuss accounts and the fans know this. He’s in charge of the playing staff and players nothing else. He doesn’t set the budget does he? It’s clear those at board level will tell him beforehand what and what not to say to the press. But again, that’s useless as IMO it needs to come from the board.

That section of fans is never going to be convinced even if they had the accounts stapled to their foreheads. But I reiterate, for the club to remain silent on the matter doesn’t help their cause. Therefore to continue to remain silent will only serve to fuel those who claim “all the money goes to SISU.”

No, Mark Robins hasn't got into details about the accounts. He has said that the more money through the gates means more money to him. Especially when there was the cup run last year.

I'm not sure how the club has remained silent over anything? They just get ignored. They do post articles about accounts, they have also corrected people on social media. I have just linked to an article that had links to the accounts.

The telegraph have also then done articles about it and have also said SISU aren't taking all the money to date.

What causes this is people who have an agenda trying to get people worked up or to boycott.

People aren't interested in seeing if it is true, they want to be angry and they want to be given reasons not to bother. You could have Sillett, Houchen and Kilcline drive to their house to explain it personally with the FA cup and they would just be "SISU Stooges lying to them so sisu can take their money"

I don't want people to believe it so they love SISU, I want people to believe it so they go and watch the football club they support.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Agree with a lot of this...
However in today's market Wilson is worth about 50 million simply because he's English, and a striker who can score, and has proven it over the last few years. I agree not worth 70 Million. In reality shouldn't be even 50 million, but just going by reality of the market.

On Higuain: Chelsea Chief executive doesn't think he is the solution, hence why he only agreed to a loan and not transfer. Also 8 goals in 22 appearances? 1 in 3 striker, Wilson's ratios are on the up, would suggest Higuain could be on the way down...

But you can’t base the fact that Higuain is on the decline on one season. And his record this season is a better return than the strikers Chelsea currently have. Plus even if you are right and he is on the decline. Chelsea don’t have to sign him at the end of the season, I think that’ll probably be based on a performance/appearances clause.

Wilson IMO would’ve been a panic buy. In this market I do genuinely believe he’s worth £50M but that’s because I’m biased. But objectively with all the points laid out on the table, a 6-month loan for an established striker in comparison to a £70M minimum fee for a player with injury problems is a far better deal for the club.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Finger naturally points at Mark Robins as he’s the manager, but surely the finger of assumption stretches to Adi Viveash and now Chris Badlan or the since moved on Tommy Widdrington who was the eyes and ears at the time.

Tommy Widdrington did the business in L2 with MR and Steve Taylor, two of them are now gone with the only main ingredient in the coaching staff changing from summer 17/18 to summer 18/19 transfer window being Adi Viveash now assisting MR in recruitment.

How much swing did/does Adi Viveash have on signings or did we just get a few wrong this year, or is it just bad luck on others or other personal factors come into play that we don’t know about.

Some windows everything clicks, sometimes they don’t and it’s emphasised when others things don’t go your way over that season.

Plenty of factors to consider before the finger solely points at Mark Robins


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Looking at our league position, it's an unfair characterisation to say recruitment has been bad. For me, it's been quite good. It's fair to say Brown and Ogogo haven't quite gone as well as planned, but with both of them recovering from knee ligament injuries, there was always a risk. With Ogogo, whilst he hasn't impressed me, he hasn't really had a run in the team and considering both Kelly and Doyle are seemingly Captain and Vice, and Bayliss is our best player. It seems like a bad move and maybe Robins had a plan for him but this has gone out of the window. Clearly, Ogogo is unhappy not playing and made that clear as early as October (iirc) and is probably causing a fuss, I get the impression from @better days that he and Brown are causing issues in the dressing room (if I’ve got that wrong, I apologise, I’m going off recall). If that’s the case, they’ve got to go especially if we’ve got similar/better players in their positions.

Recruitment wasn’t perfect last season, we were very light on the wings when Jones got injured and without the elevation of Shipley and Bayliss (who came out of nowhere), where would we have ended up?

The reality of our situation is that, within 2 years, we’ve gone from relegation to L2 to top half in L1, potentially playoff contention. Recruitment has to be good for us to get to that point. It hasn’t been perfect but there’s going to be gaps when we have had to sign the amount of players we have done, with a budget to adhere to.

Signing players for the development team is a real success of Robins’ recruitment policy. Within one season, we’ve go Hyam and now McCallum turning into first team players. This is the first manager to have any kind of long-term planning in years at this club.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

But you can’t base the fact that Higuain is on the decline on one season. And his record this season is a better return than the strikers Chelsea currently have. Plus even if you are right and he is on the decline. Chelsea don’t have to sign him at the end of the season, I think that’ll probably be based on a performance/appearances clause.

Wilson IMO would’ve been a panic buy. In this market I do genuinely believe he’s worth £50M but that’s because I’m biased. But objectively with all the points laid out on the table, a 6-month loan for an established striker in comparison to a £70M minimum fee for a player with injury problems is a far better deal for the club.

Spurs might be sniffing around too. They need to back Potchettino or risk losing him to Man U. Kane is also injured for 2 months and they need a goal scorer if they are to keep up with the top two. Personally, that’s probably a better fit for Wilson than Chelsea as I don’t trust them to play him.

He’s certainly not worth 75m, not even 50m. But, the prices in January are always inflated and Solanke’s transfer has undoubtedly inflated the prices articifically too. Last but not least, Premiership clubs don’t need to sell like they used to, and it’s a seller’s market. Clubs won’t sell unless the price they set is met.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

No, Mark Robins hasn't got into details about the accounts. He has said that the more money through the gates means more money to him. Especially when there was the cup run last year.

I'm not sure how the club has remained silent over anything? They just get ignored. They do post articles about accounts, they have also corrected people on social media. I have just linked to an article that had links to the accounts.

The telegraph have also then done articles about it and have also said SISU aren't taking all the money to date.

What causes this is people who have an agenda trying to get people worked up or to boycott.

People aren't interested in seeing if it is true, they want to be angry and they want to be given reasons not to bother. You could have Sillett, Houchen and Kilcline drive to their house to explain it personally with the FA cup and they would just be "SISU Stooges lying to them so sisu can take their money"

I don't want people to believe it so they love SISU, I want people to believe it so they go and watch the football club they support.

But isn’t that just a marketing ploy by the club to get more people through the gates? The majority of manages in the EFL will say this at some point during a summer transfer window.

How have they not stayed silent? If you look, the vast majority of their messages about the fincancials specifically regarding player sales they have been filtered through other avenues. E.g. CT or MR. The only time I remember a director coming out and directly saying player sales will be reinvested into the squad was Dave Boddy - and he still messed that up slightly as he then effectively inadvertently retracted the clubs statement and claimed that only some of the McNulty money will be used for incoming signings.

I don’t want fans to believe SISU either as they are in simple terms, liars and bullies. But the club needs to be more proactive and think of ways to figuratively subtly distance themselves from SISU otherwise sections of fans will continue to believe the likes of Dave Boddy are puppets of Joy. When in reality they’re not at all, they’re employees of the club who are trying the best they can in precarious circumstances.