Christmas truce? (1 Viewer)

italiahorse · Dec 22, 2014

Nick said:
How were sisu destroying the infastructure?

Really?

The most obvious is stressing ACL and leaving the bowl empty. The stadium maintenance budget was obviously cut.

Several planning applications for hotels and car showrooms etc have been approved but not yet started, I suggest just in case ACL fold.
Others probably have not yet been put forward yet, but we will need to see what the future holds here.

Local businesses have lost the incomes from visitors to the stadium be it fast food, pubs, hotels, casino, shops, private car parks etc etc.
The knock on to this is not investing in additional facilities and staff.

We know that CCC continually refer to this and again we will need to wait and see.

martcov · Dec 22, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
If you believe that then aren't you saying SISU made a gross error. In actual fact I think the deal was about £20M, but the loins share is in a loan, just think of it as a mortgage.

Anyway, you failed to read my post carefully enough, I said "a major hypocrisy" not "the only hypocrisy".

Not to mention the rumour of parachuting a league 1 club into another town with a lower league team. That is justifiable because it is "ours" whereas Wasps moving into a football stadium is "just wrong"...

italiahorse · Dec 22, 2014

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I saw Fisher & Sepella in a JCB digging pot holes in the roads....

They might as well. At least we would see the damage they have caused rather than blame others as they administer death by a thousand cuts.

Nick · Dec 22, 2014

martcov said:
Not to mention the rumour of parachuting a league 1 club into another town with a lower league team. That is justifiable because it is "ours" whereas Wasps moving into a football stadium is "just wrong"...

It isn't wrong in your opinion though, it is great so your point is invalid.

What did you think of the game on sat?

Nick · Dec 22, 2014

italiahorse said:
Really?

The most obvious is stressing ACL and leaving the bowl empty. The stadium maintenance budget was obviously cut.

Several planning applications for hotels and car showrooms etc have been approved but not yet started, I suggest just in case ACL fold.
Others probably have not yet been put forward yet, but we will need to see what the future holds here.

Local businesses have lost the incomes from visitors to the stadium be it fast food, pubs, hotels, casino, shops, private car parks etc etc.
The knock on to this is not investing in additional facilities and staff.

We know that CCC continually refer to this and again we will need to wait and see.

Acl weren't struggling though, they were going from strength to strength?

chiefdave · Dec 22, 2014

italiahorse said:
The most obvious is stressing ACL and leaving the bowl empty. The stadium maintenance budget was obviously cut.

Several planning applications for hotels and car showrooms etc have been approved but not yet started, I suggest just in case ACL fold.
Others probably have not yet been put forward yet, but we will need to see what the future holds here.

So you're saying when CCC kept talking about how well ACL was doing, CCFC being less than 10% of it's income, busier then ever diary that was all lies?

chiefdave · Dec 22, 2014

martcov said:
Not to mention the rumour of parachuting a league 1 club into another town with a lower league team. That is justifiable because it is "ours" whereas Wasps moving into a football stadium is "just wrong"...

How can you not see a difference between moving 3 miles and moving nearly 100? If we are to move to Bermuda there will be a planning application and plenty of time for people to raise objections, that didn't happen with Wasps move, by the time anyone knew about it the deal was done.

henry the wasp · Dec 22, 2014

chiefdave said:
How can you not see a difference between moving 3 miles and moving nearly 100? If we are to move to Bermuda there will be a planning application and plenty of time for people to raise objections, that didn't happen with Wasps move, by the time anyone knew about it the deal was done.

Hopefully there will be a public inquiry. Like the one we had for the Ricoh. Oh.

chiefdave · Dec 22, 2014

henry the wasp said:
Hopefully there will be a public inquiry. Like the one we had for the Ricoh. Oh.

The Ricoh hardly appeared overnight did it? What was it 98 or 99 when it was first announced with no building starting until 02 or 03, seems plenty of time for people to raise objections.

Ian1779 · Dec 22, 2014

italiahorse said:
Really?

The most obvious is stressing ACL and leaving the bowl empty. The stadium maintenance budget was obviously cut.

Several planning applications for hotels and car showrooms etc have been approved but not yet started, I suggest just in case ACL fold.
Others probably have not yet been put forward yet, but we will need to see what the future holds here.

Local businesses have lost the incomes from visitors to the stadium be it fast food, pubs, hotels, casino, shops, private car parks etc etc.
The knock on to this is not investing in additional facilities and staff.

We know that CCC continually refer to this and again we will need to wait and see.

The same CCC that refused to support a report into the lost income and effect on local business during our hiatus?
The same CCC that said time and time again that ACL did not need the football club - and that it was going from strength to strength?
The same CCC that said CCFC moving to Sixfields was morally wrong and went against the ideology of a sports team playing in it's home town?
The same CCC that openly invited a franchise from London to buy the stadium management company without even the slightest notion of their hypocrisy?
The same CCC that did not want a nasty hedge fund to 'rip off' a charity... and in doing so allowed another one to do the same?

CCFC only rented the bowl for 23 days a year did they not? Were the club still responsible for the remaining 340 days??

Perhaps if you pulled your head out of Anne's arse long enough you could realise how much shit you talk.

henry the wasp · Dec 22, 2014

chiefdave said:
The Ricoh hardly appeared overnight did it? What was it 98 or 99 when it was first announced with no building starting until 02 or 03, seems plenty of time for people to raise objections.

Warwickshire county council wanted a public inquiry. John Two Jags said there was no need for one.

chiefdave · Dec 22, 2014

henry the wasp said:
Warwickshire county council wanted a public inquiry. John Two Jags said there was no need for one.

Maybe there should have been one, to be honest I was living abroad for a lot of that time so you would know better than me if there was a lot of opposition locally. But the point remains objections could have been made at the planning stage and there was years between the stadium first being announced and the build starting during which people could have voiced their concerns.

MichaelCCFC · Dec 22, 2014

Well this thread has gone swimmingly. Arguing with fellow City fans is clearly preferable to trying to think about ideas to save ccfc!

Senior Vick from Alicante · Dec 22, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Well this thread has gone swimmingly. Arguing with fellow City fans is clearly preferable to trying to think about ideas to save ccfc!

Sorry Michael but until some one comes up with a cast iron idea that everyone gets behind their will always be arguments. I for one would love a blanket ban on home attendance to try to starve them out, it will never work though. The people who attended Sixfields argued that they were supporting the team not the owners and would probably do the same again its their right. Of course though, the football that's on offer at the moment will probably lead to low attendances in the long run. It will be interesting to see the attendance for the next Wasps game though, their may be city fans who would rather spend £22 on rugger that watching the mediocre offerings on a Saturday. City is most peoples first love but how can you keep loving something that gives nothing back? Sad times!

Ian1779 · Dec 22, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Well this thread has gone swimmingly. Arguing with fellow City fans is clearly preferable to trying to think about ideas to save ccfc!

I'm not sure what you expect.... it's no different to arguing about whether the manager is shit, or any of the players. Everyone has an opinion.

Lets be honest - the only people that are capable of saving the club are CCC and SISU. The best chance we have got is that they can find a way to give the club a foothold for the future. That means SISU have to start delivering in regards to a new stadium. And if they were to then CCC have to support them every step of the way.

If not - then we stay at the Ricoh as tenants... but that means only one thing whether SISU remain or not - we will be stuck in and around this level for the foreseeable future.

They are only going to leave when they choose to.. people can go on about NOPM forever and a day. It won't make one jot of difference to SISU.

There will be no knight in shining armour, no fan owned club. The wheels were set in motion the day we sold HR and this is the net result.

oldbloke · Dec 22, 2014

This is the best thread ever. Some twat say's lets stop arguing and it causes an argument. Fucking class.

chiefdave · Dec 22, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Well this thread has gone swimmingly. Arguing with fellow City fans is clearly preferable to trying to think about ideas to save ccfc!

To be honest Michael I have a very real fear that the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps means the club can't be saved. We are now in a fairly unique position. We own no stadium, don't have a long term lease that gives us stadium revenues or any option to buy a stadium. The only other team i can think of that have been in this situation are Wimbledon, and we know how that ended, and Brighton, who I believe had a single benefactor who financed the stadium.

Let's look at the options (numbered but in no particular order):

1) Buy the Ricoh - unless Wasps plan goes badly wrong not going to happen.

2) Lease at the Ricoh long term - find it hard to see Wasps giving us a lease that will give us all matchday revenues, share in other revenues such as naming rights, use of the stadium on non-matchdays for things like todays JSB event, club offices and club shop. That's what we need really and I can't see it happening.

3) Build a new stadium in Coventry - the best option but the general consensus seems to be there is no possible site in the city. Of course even if there was you have the issue of how it will be financed given that we have no existing stadium to sell to offset the cost.

4) Build a new stadium as close as possible to Coventry - if a new stadium is happening this seems the most likely option. As above questions over the financing and the impact this will have on us in years to come.

At the best of times its a struggle for any football club to be successful without incurring losses, certainly the case in the Championsip and PL. All options to me look fairly bleak. I fear the future is either one of struggling with decades with huge debts, another round of administration, or trying to operate and break even and staying in L1 or even L2 for years to come.

I'd love to see a bright future and give you a plan to save CCFC but other than someone who is a fan rather than a businessman coming in and being prepared to write off tens of millions I can't see anything but further decline going forward.

duffer · Dec 22, 2014

Just to bring this briefly back to the OP, at the end of the day we're all city fans. We're in the fairly unique situation though of not just being able to grumble about the players, the manager, and our owners, but also a whole bunch of third-parties like CCC, ACL, Higgs and now Wasps. Inevitably we're going to disagree on some of this.

For my part, I wish everyone here well over Christmas and New Year - and as ever offer a sincere apology to anyone I've offended during the year by stating (or more likely overstating) my opinion.

I'd always hope that I could walk into a pub anywhere in Coventry, and have a friendly chat to any other fan that I bumped into, even if we held vastly different opinions on everything - because the most important thing is that we're daft enough to follow the same team. That, at the end of the day, is why we're here.

stupot07 · Dec 22, 2014

duffer said:
Just to bring this briefly back to the OP, at the end of the day we're all city fans. We're in the fairly unique situation though of not just being able to grumble about the players, the manager, and our owners, but also a whole bunch of third-parties like CCC, ACL, Higgs and now Wasps. Inevitably we're going to disagree on some of this.

For my part, I wish everyone here well over Christmas and New Year - and as ever offer a sincere apology to anyone I've offended during the year by stating (or more likely overstating) my opinion.

I'd always hope that I could walk into a pub anywhere in Coventry, and have a friendly chat to any other fan that I bumped into, even if we held vastly different opinions on everything - because the most important thing is that we're daft enough to follow the same team. That, at the end of the day, is why we're here.

Here here.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 22, 2014

turlykerd said:
Just seen my first home game for ages on Saturday with my lad and we had a great time

I've missed the banter and the whole match day experience

And maybe, we have a new fan for life too (I'm proud and sorry at the same time)

I've still had away games to tide me over every once in a while but the social side is worth going for regardless of the football. Looking forward to it.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Dec 22, 2014

Merry Christmas everybody,like Duffer I'm sorry for any abuse,there wont be anymore from me.I've decided after watching the Fleetwood game that I'll be going to the Chritmas games because I've got tickets and then after supporting City for 56 years thats me done, getting tickets for Cov after that.

Nick · Dec 22, 2014

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Merry Christmas everybody,like Duffer I'm sorry for any abuse,there wont be anymore from me.I've decided after watching the Fleetwood game that I'll be going to the Chritmas games because I've got tickets and then after supporting City for 56 years thats me done, getting tickets for Cov after that.

Have you been sharing your password with Italia? I can reset it for you if you want?

ps. Fair play for it being Cov too

MichaelCCFC · Dec 23, 2014

torchomatic said:
What we need is a fans' organisation that can fight on our behalf.

Genuine question and definitely not looking for an argument...During sixfields we ended up with 3 fan groups. At the time I thought that was bad but in hindsight maybe it worked out ok and as everyone is never going to agree maybe having more than one group is necessary to reflect different views within any fanbase. At quite a few clubs there are more than one fans' group. What would be the aims, actions etc of a fans' organisation that you would support?

Ian1779 · Dec 23, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Genuine question and definitely not looking for an argument...During sixfields we ended up with 3 fan groups. At the time I thought that was bad but in hindsight maybe it worked out ok and as everyone is never going to agree maybe having more than one group is necessary to reflect different views within any fanbase. At quite a few clubs there are more than one fans' group. What would be the aims, actions etc of a fans' organisation that you would support?

Getting the club in a position where it makes as much as it spends.. so self sufficient as a minimum

Getting the club a stadium of it's own

Anything else I'm afraid pales into insignificance.

MichaelCCFC · Dec 23, 2014

Ian1779 said:
Getting the club in a position where it makes as much as it spends.. so self sufficient as a minimum

Getting the club a stadium of it's own

Anything else I'm afraid pales into insignificance.

Self sufficiency is a good starting point because it should get widespread support (apart from those who dream of a billionaire deciding owning ccfc is the one missing element in their quest for happiness/world domination).

With a new stadium, does that suggest putting pressure on sisu to get on with identifying land and submitting a planning application or is there another course of action you would propose?

Grendel · Dec 23, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Genuine question and definitely not looking for an argument...During sixfields we ended up with 3 fan groups. At the time I thought that was bad but in hindsight maybe it worked out ok and as everyone is never going to agree maybe having more than one group is necessary to reflect different views within any fanbase. At quite a few clubs there are more than one fans' group. What would be the aims, actions etc of a fans' organisation that you would support?

Well for a start I would suggest the people who are on the board as representatives would be more interested in the club than a Strictly Come Dancing Final or a degrading spectacle if franchise sport engineered by the local council and a franchise hedge fund.

MichaelCCFC · Dec 23, 2014

Grendel said:
Well for a start I would suggest the people who are on the board as representatives would be more interested in the club than a Strictly Come Dancing Final or a degrading spectacle if franchise sport engineered by the local council and a franchise hedge fund.

Ok, those are things you wouldn't want. But what aims and actions would you like to see?

Grendel · Dec 23, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Ok, those are things you wouldn't want. But what aims and actions would you like to see?

I would personally like a statement discouraging any association with Wasps and an explanation that if they default on their lease that the likelihood is that they will have to relinquish ownership of ACL. The reason is this long term is for the benefit of the football club. I certainly wouldn't be costing up to a franchise sporting team as that makes any objection to moving says football club rather foolish.

MichaelCCFC · Dec 23, 2014

Grendel said:
I would personally like a statement discouraging any association with Wasps and an explanation that if they default on their lease that the likelihood is that they will have to relinquish ownership of ACL. The reason is this long term is for the benefit of the football club. I certainly wouldn't be costing up to a franchise sporting team as that makes any objection to moving says football club rather foolish.

That suggests a couple of starting points of a principled objection to franchising/relocation of clubs and a more specific objection to wasps being here and disassociation from them. Are there actions you would suggest to back up these points and then more generally, actions to try to get ccfc moving in a positive direction?

Nick · Dec 23, 2014

Everybody keeps going on about getting a better deal with wasps, open letter to wasps see what deal they are offering..

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 23, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Ok, those are things you wouldn't want. But what aims and actions would you like to see?

The aim should be to support the club to get a stake in their home stadium, ask Wasps would they be open to a 50:50 partnership of the Ricoh if they were approached by the football club as in their own words they couldn't survive on a rental deal and needed 365 day revenue, very much like ourselves. Ask CCFC why they haven't approached Wasps with such a proposal, what do the club need to be successful at the Ricoh? That can then be put forward to ACL and if it isn't acceptable to them we can move on with a new stadium.

Then the fans can get on board and support the clubs attempts for a new stadium, but trying to get that stadium built within Coventry. Ask the club have they even looked at potential sites in Coventry and approached the CCC with plans to build in Coventry, if not then why not and do they plan to? Ask CCC have the club ever approached them with plans to build in Coventry, if not would they work with the club if they were approached or would they oppose it?

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Dec 23, 2014

Michael never,never,never ask for a truce again for gods sake:facepalm:

skybluebeduff · Dec 23, 2014

Go ask Alice, as she's 10ft tall.
When the men on the chessboard, get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom..

Oops posted on the wrong drug site, carry on as normal...

chiefdave · Dec 23, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Ok, those are things you wouldn't want. But what aims and actions would you like to see?

This is not an exhaustive list just off the top of my head:

1) oppose franchising of any team in any sport, provide support and advise to the trust of any team who are being treated with such a move.

2) work with all stakeholders in a professional manner to the advantage of supporters no matter if they agree with the actions of the stakeholders. To give an example when we moved to Sixfields the trust could have said something along the lines of "we are totally opposed to the move to Sixfields but believe in the right of every supporter to decide if they will attend. We will work with SISU to ensure that the best arrangements possible are in place for those who do wish to attend with particular attention to groups who may need assistance such as youngster, pensioners and the disabled". You don't have to agree with someone to work with them.

3) to question all stakeholders in any given situation. Not to take sides unless there is a clear mandate from the membership to do so. If a stance such as SISU out is taken it should be under regular review.

4) work with the likes of SBITC and JSB on community initiatives. In particular to bring new supporters to the club.

5) be a point of contact for any 'day to day' issues, things like there's no hot water in the toilets, ran out of beer too soon etc. Fans should be able to easily contact the trust and the trust should have open dialogue with the club to resole these issues. similarly any suggestions about improving PR, items in the shop etc could be routed through the trust.

Sure there's other things but that's just off the top of my head.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 23, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Genuine question and definitely not looking for an argument...During sixfields we ended up with 3 fan groups. At the time I thought that was bad but in hindsight maybe it worked out ok and as everyone is never going to agree maybe having more than one group is necessary to reflect different views within any fanbase. At quite a few clubs there are more than one fans' group. What would be the aims, actions etc of a fans' organisation that you would support?

Personally I always see/saw it as a political party. You can be a member of Labour/Conservatives, but not have to agree witgh all their policies, more the ethos around their existence. Leaders come and go and, when they do, the tone changes. Problem is, as soon as you form an SDP, say, you weaken the voice of the original party.

So, generally, I'm all for one strong organisation rather than a bunch of factions, Peoples Fronts of Judea.

Likewise criticising doesn't have to mean not supporting the general aims.

Ultimately we're all CCFC fans, but none of us (none of us) are strong enough to lead and unite together, so we can accept each others' differences. Somehow we need to *embrace* the difference and no, I don't have the answers.

We're also losing (lost?) sight of what we should be standing up for, we should be a single issue campaign group.

And yes, 'to support the interests of Coventry City Football Club' is so vague, it's hard to unite under that aim when we'd all have different ideas.

I appreciate it's easier to offer criticism than solution. I am however highly, highly concerned. And from someone who tends towards glass half empty, I fear a year ago was the high watermark of optimism in recent times(!) It's that bad...

Christmas truce? (1 Viewer)

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