Clouting on CWR (1 Viewer)

SkyBlueMania said:

So SISU are pumping in 500k each month to the club, selling every business asset we own, trying to offload every player possible for cash and are refusing a takeover bid. They won't make cash unless we get promoted, we won't get promoted unless we keep our best players and use our profitable assets to invest in the team. What exactly are they in it for, I am totally stumped as to how they expect to make money from this venture, which they must if they are refusing to sell?! Can anyone business minded enlighten me as to how a profit from this scenario could be plausible?

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Nick said:

I think online petitions are pointless. How often do they ever work?

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Nonleagueherewecome said:

My attitude is they own the club, therefore it aint loans, it's losses. We owe them nothing. There will be no-way a takeover is feasible if they continue to see it thhis way and hold out for (say) 10-20m.

I thought a quid was the realsitic first offer a few days ago, tbh-if they're losing that much money by covering costs (which they obviously don't think they are, as it's a "loan" to their thinking..) surely you'd just get out to stop the bleeding?

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oldskyblue58 said:

just my opinion/thoughts/questions................

I am not comfortable with this being negotiated in public.
Who are these mysterious backers for GH.
Its no good saying its not for sale, these are serious businessmen on both sides and everything has a price
I am inclined to agree with University football expert quoted on CWR who thinks GH's offer is not enough - ok go for a discount but at least make it tempting
Not comfortable with GH's comments about former shareholders because it has nothing to do with the deal that is being put together now
Is the option still valid because it was written off in the SBS&L accounts in 2010?
Think SISU were the wrong investors in the first place but i do not think we had much choice.
SISU are the wrong people to run this club - have always thought so, but they are right to cut expenses etc we cant continue to live beyond our means
Think SISU need to be clearer about what their plans are the funding they can bring in the future if any
Got to be honest if I am given an offer to buy my business not signed on blank paper I am not going to take it that seriously - cant believe that someone running Northern Rock took that path.
I would love to see the back of SISU.
If SISU go are we just jumping from frying pan to fire
Losses to be repaid over period SISU been here ?- so that would be £17.8m up to 31/05/10 and more since - doesnt seem to leave much in the pot for AT does it
If you were owed £24m in loans would you accept a reported £13m to go ?
The shares are worthless - its the loans that need to be repaid that are the problem
There are other creditors for the group - some loans PAYE VAT etc who is paying those- does it come out of the £20m "investment"
Think that GH's offer will still under fund the club
Is Geoffery Robinson one of the backers for GH?


Overall feel is smoke and mirrors on both sides. Not comfortable with much of it. Just get it done or not stop the posturing

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oldskyblue58 said:

Except the investment so far has been by way of legally constituted loans from the private equity funds that SISU manage for their clients. SISU themselves do not own the shares the private equity funds do.

Anyone coming in as a new owner is going to have to deal with the loans that are there. Last thing a new owner needs is for them to get the company and the loans are called in. The loans either get settled or remain a liability of the company. The sticking point, amongst other things, is how much of the loans will get to be repaid.

The selling of the shares isnt the hard bit, the loans and how much is repaid is. SISU could easily say there are the shares for£1 and sit back with the loans their clients made and effectively still control the club because of the size of the debt even charge interest on the debt. That would be unacceptable to any new buyer obviously. Both GH and SISU are playing brinksmanship and we the fans are stuck in the middle of it whilst they test their nerve

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Scott 79 said:

can't someone set up an online petition for any who feels SISU should get out - i would do it myself but not sure of the appropriate wording -

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chiefdave said:

is this not the same situation we were in when SISU took over with the club having loans from GR and possibly others? You clearly know more about the finances than I do but to me it looks like GH is trying to do the same thing that SISU did and take on the debt with conditions (ie: only repayable if we get promoted within 3 years)

also, assuming SISU have no investor in the wings, can they realistically hold on. Surely sooner or later they will have to put the club into admin unless they want to keep covering the losses or put a big investment in. They don't seem willing to keep covering the losses judging by recent events and they don't seem to have a investor to come in.

could they just be hanging on as long as possible in the hope that an investor comes in. if we do go into admin would SISU be better off than if they sold to GH as they would get the proceeds of player sales being the biggest creditor?

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ericagradus said:

Interesting hearing Clouting's reaction to Hoffman on CWR this morning.

1. The club is not for sale.
2. The club are however looking for investors
3. Hoffmans offer, was not signed and details of the buyers were not disclosed
4. Sisu invest £500k a month to cover running costs
5. Clouting can be quoted as saying, Hoffman on 1st July confirmed that any offer had now been withdrawn.

So if all the above is true - there is no offer on the table.

Is Hoffman trying to use the fans to bully the club into selling?!

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Paxman II said:

I think my fellow talkster olderskyblue has just about summarised everything correctly from what we know.

All I can add is that Hoffman by his own admission come across as a bit of a clown. His 'offer' was derisory as far as SISU are concerened a point I made a few days ago. I wonder who is wasting who's time here? Hoffman should know better. So given all this has come out publicly then he should now make clear his intentions again and place them in written and serious form asap.
It smacked of such amateurism that SISU would likely be dismissive.

If SISU are saying they continue to look for investors or even a sale (and obviously the door is open to that) given a fit and proper offer then they will in the short to medium term not want to put in any more money other than what was absolutely necessary for the club to continue in business. So committed to that they are.
It makes sense then that initially they will use whatever assets they have to generate this money until those options are dried up and then they will fund it themselves at the presumed rate of some 500k a month. (which is a figure diminishing by the way) That sustainability will be judged when it happens...possibly at the end of the coming season.
Hoffman then has to re-visit with his investors and come back with a serious bid that will appeal better to SISIU and who would blame SISU for that considering they are holding the 'debt' of some 23m?
SISU hold the cards here and those stadium rights are a big reason why anyone will still have an interest in taking on CCFC.

One thing for sure in the short term Andy Thorn will not have the means to bring in players other than 'loans' and then to fund those will have some of the savings made from the loss of the 'big 3' to pay for them. He has a very tough task but with a couple of good loans he may well have a decent squad at this point in time. Gunnarsson was not anything special to the squad and though King seemed like the goal scorer we all wanted to keep perhaps - just perhaps a new man under Thorn is about to emerge from the shadows? The Juke's ratio was pretty impressive towards the latter part of last season when we played a completely different style under a completely different manager. he certainly eclipsed King's performances. Even Sheffer's played in the hole where he flourishes and I see that combination doing well.

SISU will keep the ship steady as possible for now....and sounds like they will be willing to fund the monthly cost override when necessary up to a point. A good cup run and a good season will inevitably remove a lot of that monthly override too. So yes the Hoff must get more inventive and serious in his approach if he is to be taken seriously.

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Paxman II said:

I think my fellow talkster olderskyblue has just about summarised everything correctly from what we know.

All I can add is that Hoffman by his own admission come across as a bit of a clown. His 'offer' was derisory as far as SISU are concerened a point I made a few days ago. I wonder who is wasting who's time here? Hoffman should know better. So given all this has come out publicly then he should now make clear his intentions again and place them in written and serious form asap.
It smacked of such amateurism that SISU would likely be dismissive.

If SISU are saying they continue to look for investors or even a sale (and obviously the door is open to that) given a fit and proper offer then they will in the short to medium term not want to put in any more money other than what was absolutely necessary for the club to continue in business. So committed to that they are.
It makes sense then that initially they will use whatever assets they have to generate this money until those options are dried up and then they will fund it themselves at the presumed rate of some 500k a month. (which is a figure diminishing by the way) That sustainability will be judged when it happens...possibly at the end of the coming season.
Hoffman then has to re-visit with his investors and come back with a serious bid that will appeal better to SISIU and who would blame SISU for that considering they are holding the 'debt' of some 23m?
SISU hold the cards here and those stadium rights are a big reason why anyone will still have an interest in taking on CCFC.

One thing for sure in the short term Andy Thorn will not have the means to bring in players other than 'loans' and then to fund those will have some of the savings made from the loss of the 'big 3' to pay for them. He has a very tough task but with a couple of good loans he may well have a decent squad at this point in time. Gunnarsson was not anything special to the squad and though King seemed like the goal scorer we all wanted to keep perhaps - just perhaps a new man under Thorn is about to emerge from the shadows? The Juke's ratio was pretty impressive towards the latter part of last season when we played a completely different style under a completely different manager. he certainly eclipsed King's performances. Even Sheffer's played in the hole where he flourishes and I see that combination doing well.

SISU will keep the ship steady as possible for now....and sounds like they will be willing to fund the monthly cost override when necessary up to a point. A good cup run and a good season will inevitably remove a lot of that monthly override too. So yes the Hoff must get more inventive and serious in his approach if he is to be taken seriously.

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