Club debt (1 Viewer)

[leicesterskyblue]

When SISU took over there was talk of either no debt or £30million. Now there are claims of £70million. Any ideas where that £40million has come from?

Theoretically, obviously, would it be possible for a hedge fund owner of a sporting club to essentially load that club with its own debts and then walk away? Basically a big debt sink hole? OR create massive theoretical debts to its other companies so that should the company fold or be be sold the other companies could benefit from either outcome???

 

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[Sky Blue Harry H]

In a few minutes time, you are going to get several posts taking up half a page each - and having read them, you'll have a headache (and only be a little wiser!)

 

[ccfc92]

When SISU took over there was talk of either no debt or £30million. Now there are claims of £70million. Any ideas where that £40million has come from?

Theoretically, obviously, would it be possible for a hedge fund owner of a sporting club to essentially load that club with its own debts and then walk away? Basically a big debt sink hole? OR create massive theoretical debts to its other companies so that should the company fold or be be sold the other companies could benefit from either outcome???

agree with all of that. i've always believed they could sink debts into CCFC. but also, the club was almost breakeven last season, and we have had no real high earners since our relegation season so where has the 40 million gone.....

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

To be fair, Mr Fisher has explained that the accounts were "a bit of a mess".

 

[ConnorDevine]

When SISU took over there was talk of either no debt or £30million. Now there are claims of £70million. Any ideas where that £40million has come from?

Theoretically, obviously, would it be possible for a hedge fund owner of a sporting club to essentially load that club with its own debts and then walk away? Basically a big debt sink hole? OR create massive theoretical debts to its other companies so that should the company fold or be be sold the other companies could benefit from either outcome???

that's a very interesting thought actually, i hadn't even thought of that, I'd assume it was very possible that's what they'd do, although SISU are not keen at all to sell at this moment in time, so maybe watching how debts increase/decrease from here will be interesting.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

agree with all of that. i've always believed they could sink debts into CCFC. but also, the club was almost breakeven last season, and we have had no real high earners since our relegation season so where has the 40 million gone.....

To be fair - this is not quite half a page - but I'm still hopeful.........................:thinking about:

 

[RFC]

Much more important and vital issues, like getting behind Steven Pressley his SUPERB staff and our WONDERFUL young players and those with vast experience who are taking our TEAM forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! PLEASE!
SP has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of OUR club & erase ALL the NEGATIVE elements, NOT JUST AMOEST THE PLAYING SQUAD but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
We've been playing the 'blame game for more years than I care to remember', so please put club ownership OFF the agenda otherwise the club I both LOVE & have supported for almost 58 years WILL DIE IMHO.
Those who kill it will be those who 'DON't ATTEND OUR HOME GAMES" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL & 99% of League Clubs, NOT IN THE POSITION TO SELECT or PREFER WHO OUR OWNERS ARE!

 

[DaleM]

Much more important and vital issues, like getting behind Steven Pressley his SUPERB staff and our WONDERFUL young players and those with vast experience who are taking our TEAM forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! PLEASE!
SP has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of OUR club & erase ALL the NEGATIVE elements, NOT JUST AMOEST THE PLAYING SQUAD but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
We've been playing the 'blame game for more years than I care to remember', so please put club ownership OFF the agenda otherwise the club I both LOVE & have supported for almost 58 years WILL DIE IMHO.
Those who kill it will be those who 'DON't ATTEND OUR HOME GAMES" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL & 99% of League Clubs, NOT IN THE POSITION TO SELECT or PREFER WHO OUR OWNERS ARE!

The only people who are killing the club are SISU. "Don't attend home games"it's a 70 mile round trip now numbnuts .

 

[Gray]

Much more important and vital issues, like getting behind Steven Pressley his SUPERB staff and our WONDERFUL young players and those with vast experience who are taking our TEAM forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! PLEASE!
SP has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of OUR club & erase ALL the NEGATIVE elements, NOT JUST AMOEST THE PLAYING SQUAD but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
We've been playing the 'blame game for more years than I care to remember', so please put club ownership OFF the agenda otherwise the club I both LOVE & have supported for almost 58 years WILL DIE IMHO.
Those who kill it will be those who 'DON't ATTEND OUR HOME GAMES" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL & 99% of League Clubs, NOT IN THE POSITION TO SELECT or PREFER WHO OUR OWNERS ARE!

We are also not in the position to drive all the way to another county to watch Coventry play. By all means do what you want but let others decide what they want to do

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Much more important and vital issues, like getting behind Steven Pressley his SUPERB staff and our WONDERFUL young players and those with vast experience who are taking our TEAM forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! PLEASE!
SP has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of OUR club & erase ALL the NEGATIVE elements, NOT JUST AMOEST THE PLAYING SQUAD but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
We've been playing the 'blame game for more years than I care to remember', so please put club ownership OFF the agenda otherwise the club I both LOVE & have supported for almost 58 years WILL DIE IMHO.
Those who kill it will be those who 'DON't ATTEND OUR HOME GAMES" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL & 99% of League Clubs, NOT IN THE POSITION TO SELECT or PREFER WHO OUR OWNERS ARE!

If he wants to erase the negative elements, tell him to start with Mr Fisher.

P.S. You might want to invest in a new keyboard. That one seems to put the caps lock on at random intervals.

 

[RFC]

It puts the. 'Caps' on when I'm in charge of the keyboard (at least that's what I believe, grow-up FGS!

 

[RFC]

It puts the. 'Caps' on when I'm in charge of the keyboard (at least that's what I believe, grow-up FGS!"

 

[Ripbuster]

Much more important and vital issues, like getting behind Steven Pressley his SUPERB staff and our WONDERFUL young players and those with vast experience who are taking our TEAM forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! PLEASE!
SP has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of OUR club & erase ALL the NEGATIVE elements, NOT JUST AMOEST THE PLAYING SQUAD but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
We've been playing the 'blame game for more years than I care to remember', so please put club ownership OFF the agenda otherwise the club I both LOVE & have supported for almost 58 years WILL DIE IMHO.
Those who kill it will be those who 'DON't ATTEND OUR HOME GAMES" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL & 99% of League Clubs, NOT IN THE POSITION TO SELECT or PREFER WHO OUR OWNERS ARE!

PSGM1 done THAT with THE caps :thinking about:
What are your thoughts on the Trust?

 

[sky blue john]

Much more important and vital issues, like getting behind Steven Pressley his SUPERB staff and our WONDERFUL young players and those with vast experience who are taking our TEAM forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! PLEASE!
SP has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of OUR club & erase ALL the NEGATIVE elements, NOT JUST AMOEST THE PLAYING SQUAD but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
We've been playing the 'blame game for more years than I care to remember', so please put club ownership OFF the agenda otherwise the club I both LOVE & have supported for almost 58 years WILL DIE IMHO.
Those who kill it will be those who 'DON't ATTEND OUR HOME GAMES" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL & 99% of League Clubs, NOT IN THE POSITION TO SELECT or PREFER WHO OUR OWNERS ARE!

The only vital issue is getting rid of Sisu !!!

 

[blueflint]

Much more important and vital issues, like getting behind Steven Pressley his SUPERB staff and our WONDERFUL young players and those with vast experience who are taking our TEAM forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! PLEASE!
SP has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of OUR club & erase ALL the NEGATIVE elements, NOT JUST AMOEST THE PLAYING SQUAD but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
We've been playing the 'blame game for more years than I care to remember', so please put club ownership OFF the agenda otherwise the club I both LOVE & have supported for almost 58 years WILL DIE IMHO.
Those who kill it will be those who 'DON't ATTEND OUR HOME GAMES" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL & 99% of League Clubs, NOT IN THE POSITION TO SELECT or PREFER WHO OUR OWNERS ARE!

go away moron your getting to be a pain

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

It puts the. 'Caps' on when I'm in charge of the keyboard (at least that's what I believe, grow-up FGS!

I assumed it must be random as I didn't think anyone would be so childish as to do it deliberately

 

[Paxman II]

What happened to this thread? I think the original question is better answered by OSB tbh. I wouldn't even attempt to try and explain it!

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

When SISU took over there was talk of either no debt or £30million. Now there are claims of £70million. Any ideas where that £40million has come from?

Theoretically, obviously, would it be possible for a hedge fund owner of a sporting club to essentially load that club with its own debts and then walk away? Basically a big debt sink hole? OR create massive theoretical debts to its other companies so that should the company fold or be be sold the other companies could benefit from either outcome???

When Sisu took over the wrote off the debts in Sky blue sports & leisure, the ultimate parent company. They didn't write off the debts in CCFC ltd and Holdings. The subsidiaries of SBSL.

They injected around 29 million up to May 2011. They may have had some of that back (poss £8 million) but will have injected more in the last 2 years. Probably around £3-4million a year.

Theoretically you could use any company to transfer debts around.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Much more important and vital issues, like getting behind Steven Pressley his SUPERB staff and our WONDERFUL young players and those with vast experience who are taking our TEAM forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! PLEASE!
SP has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of OUR club & erase ALL the NEGATIVE elements, NOT JUST AMOEST THE PLAYING SQUAD but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
We've been playing the 'blame game for more years than I care to remember', so please put club ownership OFF the agenda otherwise the club I both LOVE & have supported for almost 58 years WILL DIE IMHO.
Those who kill it will be those who 'DON't ATTEND OUR HOME GAMES" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL & 99% of League Clubs, NOT IN THE POSITION TO SELECT or PREFER WHO OUR OWNERS ARE!

There you are again putting H in your posts please stop it

 

[Cranfield Sky Blue]

much more important and vital issues, like getting behind steven pressley his superb staff and our wonderful young players and those with vast experience who are taking our team forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! Please!
Sp has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of our club & erase all the negative elements, not just amoest the playing squad but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
we've been playing the 'blame game for more years than i care to remember', so please put club ownership off the agenda otherwise the club i both love & have supported for almost 58 years will die imho.
Those who kill it will be those who 'don't attend our home games" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like coventry city council & 99% of league clubs, not in the position to select or prefer who our owners are!

wanker!

 

[SonOfSnoz]

Only Joy, Tim, the board/s & the FL know the truth!
We are just wasting time, conspiring!

 

[Sisued]

I'm interested to know why in may 2012 Fisher states that the accounts are looking better and that sisu have put in 40 mil. Yet a year later the accounts are in such a mess we don't even knew what goes where and sisu are suddenly owed 60-70 mil.
How does that happen?

 

[Sky blue north east]

Best home game performance in years the fans got behind the team no boo boys no sisu out chants because face it they go when there ready im already looking forward to the carlisle game then back to fortress sixfields oh what a scab i am and anyone trying put leaflet in my hand trying stop me watching my sky blues will get a good pasting PUSB

 

[Sisued]

Best home game performance in years the fans got behind the team no boo boys no sisu out chants because face it they go when there ready im already looking forward to the carlisle game then back to fortress sixfields oh what a scab i am and anyone trying put leaflet in my hand trying stop me watching my sky blues will get a good pasting PUSB

Do what you feel you must. But gloating about it will not win you any friends.
Will you administer this pasting to an 80 year old fan who believes he is doing the best for his club?

 

[longjohnskyblue]

Sisu need a sink hole for debts. You can obtain mortgages against equity of property. The Ricoh is a highly expensive piece of real estate. They haven't grown the club in half a decade. They have asset stripped everything and sold the players well below market value. They have applied management charges of between 4 and 5 million (about the same as the rent interestingly enough)

I wonder why they are so desperate to get hold of the ricoh.........

 

[WiganSkyBlue]

PSGM1 done THAT with THE caps :thinking about:
What are your thoughts on the Trust?

No reply from RFC/PSGM1 - think you may have sussed him out.

 

[valiant15]

Best home game performance in years the fans got behind the team no boo boys no sisu out chants because face it they go when there ready im already looking forward to the carlisle game then back to fortress sixfields oh what a scab i am and anyone trying put leaflet in my hand trying stop me watching my sky blues will get a good pasting PUSB

No sisu out chants because the game was being watched by a bunch of clapping seals, yes men and selfish self centred arseholes who want the majority to boycott for them.

 

[mattylad]

no one knows where we are following last week's "recapitalisation" of the club and given the history of not publishing accounts I doubt we will find out any time soon.

 

[Sky_Blue_Ste]

When SISU took over there was talk of either no debt or £30million. Now there are claims of £70million. Any ideas where that £40million has come from?

Theoretically, obviously, would it be possible for a hedge fund owner of a sporting club to essentially load that club with its own debts and then walk away? Basically a big debt sink hole? OR create massive theoretical debts to its other companies so that should the company fold or be be sold the other companies could benefit from either outcome???

SISU are a private equity firm - any money they spend on the club needs to be recorded as its not their money & this will manifest itself as debt in the accounts. When Tim says that SISU have bank rolled the club, they have but just added it to the debt.

The club has been losing money hand over fist for years, estimates at one point were over £400k per month & we've not heard since but the attendances have almost halved up to this season. Whilst we've cut ack on players etc., we've also dropped income through relegation etc. & the savings won't out weigh the costs I doubt.

Cue a few posters completely rubbishing this & says that Tim says we're breaking even - all I say is, 'Really? You believe Tim?'

 

[oldskyblue58]

Hard to give an exact figure but you have to look at the debt of the whole Sky Blues Sports & Leisure Group Ltd. As of 31/05/11 that Group owed SISU 29.7m that wont have been altered by the administration or Otium. Per the administration ARVO Master fund was owed 10.75m by the group. Otium have paid 1.5m to the administrator so that must have been borrowed as Otium has no income. Losses for 2012 and 2013 can be estimated at 3m per year. Add to that the legal costs of the dispute say another 2m

estimate of debt owed by the SBS&L group £50m and getting worse every day

 

[WiganSkyBlue]

Hard to give an exact figure but you have to look at the debt of the whole Sky Blues Sports & Leisure Group Ltd. As of 31/05/11 that Group owed SISU 29.7m that wont have been altered by the administration or Otium. Per the administration ARVO Master fund was owed 10.75m by the group. Otium have paid 1.5m to the administrator so that must have been borrowed as Otium has no income. Losses for 2012 and 2013 can be estimated at 3m per year. Add to that the legal costs of the dispute say another 2m

estimate of debt owed by the SBS&L group £50m and getting worse every day

Sol, could this be why Appleton saw Otium as the preferred bidder - they would guarantee to pay his 1.5m bri ........... err, fee.

 

[Sisued]

So they paid 1.5mil to the administrator but wouldnt pay 1.2 mil for the rent....says it all really

 

[shmmeee]

Much more important and vital issues, like getting behind Steven Pressley his SUPERB staff and our WONDERFUL young players and those with vast experience who are taking our TEAM forward. If you don't want to be a part of it, go support someone else! PLEASE!
SP has made it crystal clear that he wants to change the "total mentality of OUR club & erase ALL the NEGATIVE elements, NOT JUST AMOEST THE PLAYING SQUAD but also the 'fickle' and "disruptive" fans."
We've been playing the 'blame game for more years than I care to remember', so please put club ownership OFF the agenda otherwise the club I both LOVE & have supported for almost 58 years WILL DIE IMHO.
Those who kill it will be those who 'DON't ATTEND OUR HOME GAMES" and that really saddens me, we have to move on, we are just like COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL & 99% of League Clubs, NOT IN THE POSITION TO SELECT or PREFER WHO OUR OWNERS ARE!

You're a sad piece of shit aren't you. Mummy not hug you enough?

 

[shmmeee]

Best home game performance in years the fans got behind the team no boo boys no sisu out chants because face it they go when there ready im already looking forward to the carlisle game then back to fortress sixfields oh what a scab i am and anyone trying put leaflet in my hand trying stop me watching my sky blues will get a good pasting PUSB

Big man. Threatening to beat up city fans. Hope you do and get the banning order you deserve.

 

[blueflint]

Best home game performance in years the fans got behind the team no boo boys no sisu out chants because face it they go when there ready im already looking forward to the carlisle game then back to fortress sixfields oh what a scab i am and anyone trying put leaflet in my hand trying stop me watching my sky blues will get a good pasting PUSB

someone will come to you personally to hand you a leaflet i bet one million you won't paste her