Come on guys - You don't have to be a brain scientist (2 Viewers)

japandy · Oct 25, 2013

SISU are now involved in a court case stating that CCC, unfairly, pumped £14million into ACL with the intent of sending them, SISU, out of business. So what do SISU do? They move out of ACL's stadium and to a ground 35 miles away. How does this look with 2 scenerios to the judge - (1) Stay in Northampton (thus homeless) pleading to be the victim. (2) Go back to the Ricoh, having crowds of 15,000 and looking like our relationship with ACL is now settled. - which looks more appealing to SISU's case? - If the judge judges CCC's action unfair that may mean ACL has to be sold, or the judge may offer compensation to SISU thereby helping finance the building of their new stadium. If, on the other hand, the judge deems CCC's action fair then SISU can either negotiate with ACL to return or go ahead with the new stadium.

Hobo · Oct 25, 2013

Or get rid of the club?

ajsccfc · Oct 25, 2013

What if you're a rocket surgeon?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 25, 2013

I'm a space cowboy...

letsallsingtogether · Oct 25, 2013

Sisu full of them

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I'm a cowboy...

standupforcity · Oct 25, 2013

ajsccfc said:
What if you're a rocket surgeon?

Love to start the day with a good laugh, and you've given me one...thanks! Silly sense of humour I know but hey!!!

Astute · Oct 25, 2013

A judge won't have to be a brain scientist or rocket surgeon to work out that SISU forced CCC's hand by not paying rent. And it was refinancing that has been done, not money from CCC's funds.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 25, 2013

Can see where you are coming from, however wont the case be decided upon by the evidence at the time of the decisions rather than the supposed results of circumstances that are strongly contested 9 months later? In any case are not those supposed circumstances matched and to some degree at least cancelled by the fact SISU stopped paying the rent in April 2012, well before any supposed plan was apparently evident to SISU or anyone else?

Of course SISU will dress things up to their best advantage, I would expect nothing less. However so will CCC wont they? It will be up to the judge to decide based on the barristers arguments and based on the facts at the time....... and to cut through any show dressing on either side.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 25, 2013

japandy said:
SISU are now involved in a court case stating that CCC, unfairly, pumped £14million into ACL with the intent of sending them, SISU, out of business. So what do SISU do? They move out of ACL's stadium and to a ground 35 miles away. How does this look with 2 scenerios to the judge - (1) Stay in Northampton (thus homeless) pleading to be the victim. (2) Go back to the Ricoh, having crowds of 15,000 and looking like our relationship with ACL is now settled. - which looks more appealing to SISU's case? - If the judge judges CCC's action unfair that may mean ACL has to be sold, or the judge may offer compensation to SISU thereby helping finance the building of their new stadium. If, on the other hand, the judge deems CCC's action fair then SISU can either negotiate with ACL to return or go ahead with the new stadium.

How about another option. They could also include Northampton Town's Sixfields stadium in their Judicial Review; as they were also awarded a £12m loan by Northampton Council last year. Isn't that also 'state aid'?

You see, if they don't, it looks like they're only picking on Coventry unilaterelly for what reason? To reverse the loan, thereby leaving ACL's financing looking perilous? Whatever could the motivation for that be? :thinking about:

covmark · Oct 25, 2013

ajsccfc said:
What if you're a rocket surgeon?

quality
Mobile like

davebart · Oct 25, 2013

japandy said:
SISU are now involved in a court case stating that CCC, unfairly, pumped £14million into ACL with the intent of sending them, SISU, out of business. So what do SISU do? They move out of ACL's stadium and to a ground 35 miles away. How does this look with 2 scenerios to the judge - (1) Stay in Northampton (thus homeless) pleading to be the victim. (2) Go back to the Ricoh, having crowds of 15,000 and looking like our relationship with ACL is now settled. - which looks more appealing to SISU's case? - If the judge judges CCC's action unfair that may mean ACL has to be sold, or the judge may offer compensation to SISU thereby helping finance the building of their new stadium. If, on the other hand, the judge deems CCC's action fair then SISU can either negotiate with ACL to return or go ahead with the new stadium.

This is only a Judicial Review. Can the judge actually award damages? I would have thought not.

Even if the council lose the argument will it benefit SISU in any way? What have they lost as a result of the loan? Nothing. Their self imposed exile to Northampton is what has cost them. And that is nothing to do with the council.

sky blue john · Oct 25, 2013

It is interesting that a secret mayfair hedge fund who had at one time some council members tied up with nda's regarding discussions now want to force the council to supply info regarding meetings Sisu were not party to !!!

oldskyblue58 · Oct 25, 2013

This might help explain things that can result

remedies for a Judicial Review

http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/downloads/RemediesInJR.pdf

process details are here

http://uk.practicallaw.com/9-385-9310?service=property

James Smith · Oct 25, 2013

davebart said:
This is only a Judicial Review. Can the judge actually award damages? I would have thought not.

Even if the council lose the argument will it benefit SISU in any way? What have they lost as a result of the loan? Nothing. Their self imposed exile to Northampton is what has cost them. And that is nothing to do with the council.

I think they're expecting ACL to be so buggered by the fact that the loan from the council would have to be repaid possibly in full if the JR goes their way. Sisu are probably hoping to get hold of ACL this way on the cheap, but they must then have a plan for getting the freehold as well as Joy won't rent. This may not work if ACL can prove to an alternative lender that they're now on a more sound footing and are able to borrow from them.

ExmouthNeil · Oct 25, 2013

Too many Space Cadets out there today...:claping hands:

covcity4life · Oct 25, 2013

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I'm a space cowboy...

bebop

smouch1975 · Oct 25, 2013

ExmouthNeil said:
Too many Space Cadets out there today...:claping hands:

Is that a Sieria in you profile pic?

ExmouthNeil · Oct 25, 2013

smouch1975 said:
Is that a Sieria in you profile pic?

No it's my Honda CRX... My baby...

SkyBlueCharlie · Oct 25, 2013

ajsccfc said:
What if you're a rocket surgeon?

6 hours later and I'm still smiling at that! Made my morning....thanks.

TheRoyalScam · Oct 25, 2013

Reminded me of 'My Brain Hurts...' - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUMuZY5Bt34

Cleese/Palin on top form.

japandy · Oct 25, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
Can see where you are coming from, however wont the case be decided upon by the evidence at the time of the decisions rather than the supposed results of circumstances that are strongly contested 9 months later? In any case are not those supposed circumstances matched and to some degree at least cancelled by the fact SISU stopped paying the rent in April 2012, well before any supposed plan was apparently evident to SISU or anyone else? Of course SISU will dress things up to their best advantage, I would expect nothing less. However so will CCC wont they? It will be up to the judge to decide based on the barristers arguments and based on the facts at the time....... and to cut through any show dressing on either side.

Sorry if this is conceited but I was the one who told you this was happening because a dear friend is a lawyer working for SISU on the case. The only outcome, in my opinion, is a SISU failure because it would set a precedence the country couldnt cope with BUT if SISU win the Ricoh will be their within 6 months. You heard it here first. lol.

pugwash · Oct 26, 2013

japandy said:
Sorry if this is conceited but I was the one who told you this was happening because a dear friend is a lawyer working for SISU on the case. The only outcome, in my opinion, is a SISU failure because it would set a precedence the country couldnt cope with BUT if SISU win the Ricoh will be their within 6 months. You heard it here first. lol.

a) legal decisions are based on the law, not on the possible consequences
b) IF Sisu won, and IF that resulted in the loan having to be repaid, and IF ACL couldn't get another loan, and IF Sisu were the highest bidder for ACL then they might get the rights to OPERATE the Ricoh. That's a lot of IFs, and I still can't see them getting the freehold - which is apparently the only thing Sisu want.

RegTheDonk · Oct 26, 2013

IF the ccc loan was ruled as invalid are ccc forced to sell to sisu? Now limited is going to be liquided is there now no clause to make ccc sell to the club? If acl is as non reliant on football as they reckon they are, surely some other business is free to buy it. Ccc dont have to sell to sisu do they?

oldskyblue58 · Oct 26, 2013

japandy said:
Sorry if this is conceited but I was the one who told you this was happening because a dear friend is a lawyer working for SISU on the case. The only outcome, in my opinion, is a SISU failure because it would set a precedence the country couldnt cope with BUT if SISU win the Ricoh will be their within 6 months. You heard it here first. lol.

Yes japandy you were indeed the one to first say it, but I am guessing that like me you post any information to be helpful rather than to be able to say "I was the first" or "I told you so". Personally I would encourage you to keep posting such information - anything that helps us all understand what is going on is helpful

Still that doesnt actually answer the questions I posed, but to be honest there are times that I pose questions for others to think about rather than expect definitive answers in reply. This was one of those times

I tend to agree with you the likely outcome is a SISU fail on the JR but it isn't nailed on. Court cases are never clear cut although the previous judgement was strongly in favour of CCC. Even if CCC lost the case the solution might not be what SISU seek to achieve. Clearly they (SISU) believe that the JR is a key to their objectives. But I also feel the increase in PR etc from the SISU side is an indication that they are not anywhere near 100% confident of a result in their favour. Yes ACL CCC have also spoken recently but I suspect it wont be a regular occurrence this side of 28/11

The worst but a potential result could be that any judgement comes down on the CCC side but is to some degree diluted and so gives SISU encouragement for even more legal action....... and the saga drags on and on with no resolution in sight. Even if they (SISU) do win the appeal that gives them leave to move to the next stage, not victory on the JR, that will mean it drags on for at least another 6 months.

Right now most people including me are heartily fed up of the legal shenanigans......

ohitsaidwalker king power · Oct 26, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
Yes japandy you were indeed the one to first say it, but I am guessing that like me you post any information to be helpful rather than to be able to say "I was the first" or "I told you so". Personally I would encourage you to keep posting such information - anything that helps us all understand what is going on is helpful

Still that doesnt actually answer the questions I posed, but to be honest there are times that I pose questions for others to think about rather than expect definitive answers in reply. This was one of those times

I tend to agree with you the likely outcome is a SISU fail on the JR but it isn't nailed on. Court cases are never clear cut although the previous judgement was strongly in favour of CCC. Even if CCC lost the case the solution might not be what SISU seek to achieve. Clearly they (SISU) believe that the JR is a key to their objectives. But I also feel the increase in PR etc from the SISU side is an indication that they are not anywhere near 100% confident of a result in their favour. Yes ACL CCC have also spoken recently but I suspect it wont be a regular occurrence this side of 28/11

The worst but a potential result could be that any judgement comes down on the CCC side but is to some degree diluted and so gives SISU encouragement for even more legal action....... and the saga drags on and on with no resolution in sight. Even if they (SISU) do win the appeal that gives them leave to move to the next stage, not victory on the JR, that will mean it drags on for at least another 6 months.

Right now most people including me are heartily fed up of the legal shenanigans......

Hi OSB- I'd encourage you to be careful with your use of the word "They" associated with SISU- You will have the Us v's Them pilice tracking you down- casting you aside as not being a true CCFC supporter..

Grendel · Oct 26, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
Hi OSB- I'd encourage you to be careful with your use of the word "They" associated with SISU- You will have the Us v's Them pilice tracking you down- casting you aside as not being a true CCFC supporter..

Not at all as sisu are being talked of as a separate entity to the club. However anyone calling ACL "we" deserves scrutiny.

japandy · Oct 26, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
Yes japandy you were indeed the one to first say it, but I am guessing that like me you post any information to be helpful rather than to be able to say "I was the first" or "I told you so". Personally I would encourage you to keep posting such information - anything that helps us all understand what is going on is helpful Still that doesnt actually answer the questions I posed, but to be honest there are times that I pose questions for others to think about rather than expect definitive answers in reply. This was one of those times I tend to agree with you the likely outcome is a SISU fail on the JR but it isn't nailed on. Court cases are never clear cut although the previous judgement was strongly in favour of CCC. Even if CCC lost the case the solution might not be what SISU seek to achieve. Clearly they (SISU) believe that the JR is a key to their objectives. But I also feel the increase in PR etc from the SISU side is an indication that they are not anywhere near 100% confident of a result in their favour. Yes ACL CCC have also spoken recently but I suspect it wont be a regular occurrence this side of 28/11 The worst but a potential result could be that any judgement comes down on the CCC side but is to some degree diluted and so gives SISU encouragement for even more legal action....... and the saga drags on and on with no resolution in sight. Even if they (SISU) do win the appeal that gives them leave to move to the next stage, not victory on the JR, that will mean it drags on for at least another 6 months. Right now most people including me are heartily fed up of the legal shenanigans......

How cool not to be abused THANK YOU If it was an ideal world of course we would

ohitsaidwalker king power · Oct 27, 2013

Grendel said:
Not at all as sisu are being talked of as a separate entity to the club. However anyone calling ACL "we" deserves scrutiny.

Rubbish.

SonOfSnoz · Oct 27, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
Yes japandy you were indeed the one to first say it, but I am guessing that like me you post any information to be helpful rather than to be able to say "I was the first" or "I told you so". Personally I would encourage you to keep posting such information - anything that helps us all understand what is going on is helpful

Still that doesnt actually answer the questions I posed, but to be honest there are times that I pose questions for others to think about rather than expect definitive answers in reply. This was one of those times

I tend to agree with you the likely outcome is a SISU fail on the JR but it isn't nailed on. Court cases are never clear cut although the previous judgement was strongly in favour of CCC. Even if CCC lost the case the solution might not be what SISU seek to achieve. Clearly they (SISU) believe that the JR is a key to their objectives. But I also feel the increase in PR etc from the SISU side is an indication that they are not anywhere near 100% confident of a result in their favour. Yes ACL CCC have also spoken recently but I suspect it wont be a regular occurrence this side of 28/11

The worst but a potential result could be that any judgement comes down on the CCC side but is to some degree diluted and so gives SISU encouragement for even more legal action....... and the saga drags on and on with no resolution in sight. Even if they (SISU) do win the appeal that gives them leave to move to the next stage, not victory on the JR, that will mean it drags on for at least another 6 months.

Right now most people including me are heartily fed up of the legal shenanigans......

So only two things can happen....

1) the legals make a load of dosh

2) it buys Sisu more time?

skybluefred · Oct 27, 2013

I see this charade in a different light, My view is CCC the nigh on £60m from Tesco and the various grants received
paid for the Ricoh to be built. Therefore it is a community Stadium for the benefit of the local community. The two
shareholders are the CCC & the Higgs charity who in their wisdom set up ACL to run the complex for them.Because the
main client using the Stadium illegally withheld payment of rent it was causing ACL cash flow problems which CCC solved
by buying out ACL's mortgage and making a loan at a more manageable rate. In other words CCC have just protected
their own investment.

Seppala's own statement was that she would endeavor to involve CCC in expensive legal cases as often as she could,
There is no chance of her winning this one so the the expense will be all her's, and long may that continue.

robbiethemole · Oct 27, 2013

Surely all these legal claims are just a way of gagging the Council and stop them revealing something SISU don't want in the public eye??

Didn't it come hot on the heels of Ann Lucas's statement that everything would be in the public domain after the JR, so yet again everything is sub judicea

Mr T - Sukka! · Oct 27, 2013

JapAndy,

There are many worries about SISU ownership of the Ricoh.

1) They (SISU/Otium) would charge CCFC rent. Therefore there would be no benefit of CCFC at all. In fact we would be worse off as debt to SISU would increase further.

2) They mortgage the Ricoh if they own it, past evidence shows they done this with Ryton.

3) Alot of fans want SISU out and they have moved us out of Coventry, ultimate no no as 90% fans have shown they wont go. Lost fan (customer) base.

Even you can admit they are playing a very dangerous game and some one is going fall massively. CCC (ACL) or SISU (Otium)?

asb · Oct 27, 2013

robbiethemole said:
Surely all these legal claims are just a way of gagging the Council and stop them revealing something SISU don't want in the public eye??

Didn't it come hot on the heels of Ann Lucas's statement that everything would be in the public domain after the JR, so yet again everything is sub judicea

I am not so sure, it would seem that most if not all things are already in the public eye.

The issue here is which version of the truth is seen as the winner.

There are many very concerning claims about SISU and the handling of the club in the public eye at the moment.

There are also similar claims about the Council and ACL which if true could be damaging.

Everything claimed has been denied, or explained away as unimportant.

The Judicial Review gives the winner the chance to support their version of the truth with the only truly independent assessment of the situation, via a Judge in the High Court.

I don't see it solving anything.

Come on guys - You don't have to be a brain scientist (2 Viewers)

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

New Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency