Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (366 Viewers)

CCFCSteve · Jun 13, 2021

clint van damme said:
Once the vast majority are vacinnated I can't see what else we can do.
I think there have been people in this thread calling for us'to learn to live with it' far too early in the pandemic but I do think we are approaching that point.
Hopefully the scientific community can keep working to improve vacinnes and there's an effective ongoing vacinnation program with a good uptake from the public.

Agree with this. Don’t mind waiting two more weeks to get over 50s second doses fully effective and a few more young uns jabbed, and to just finalise assessment of data but surely that should be sufficient (still see guidance like masks etc remaining though)

As I mentioned yesterday I think it should then come down to personal choice and persona responsibility unless numbers are putting a strain on nhs (I know I’m going against professional modellers but I still can’t quite get my head around this (unless we get a vaccine resistant strain) especially the worst case scenarios - I read yesterday that we are currently running 50% lower covid inpatients/hospitalisation than even Sages best case scenario ! - For context this was in an article advocating a short delay, not immediate full reopening on 21 June but goes to show why we can’t just rely solely on long term forecasts when making decisions)

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 13, 2021

Evo1883 said:

Seriously what next? On the streets? Big riots

Grendel · Jun 13, 2021

Sky Blue Pete said:
Seriously what next? On the streets? Big riots

If stricter measures are applied I think businesses should get together and ignore rules - the Lloyd Webber approach

clint van damme · Jun 13, 2021

Grendel said:
If stricter measures are applied I think businesses should get together and ignore rules - the Lloyd Webber approach

It's already started. Can't remember who but I read one major company (possibly pub chain) have said here sticking to the 21st June deadline.
Feel sorry for the police if they're then asked to enforce any extension.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

Sky Blue Pete said:
Seriously what next? On the streets? Big riots

If they want to reimpose things in September when all adults will be double jabbed and boosters are here for the winter I would fully support civil disobedience and businesses defying the regulations. The state cannot prevent death and as stated many times we tolerate sometimes tens of thousands of flu deaths in a year.

jordan210 · Jun 13, 2021

Sky Blue Pete said:
Seriously what next? On the streets? Big riots

There another march planed for tomorrow. Not that any of the other ones have made the news.

I expect this one will turn nasty. Others have been fairly peaceful.

Philosoraptor · Jun 13, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
If they want to reimpose things in September when all adults will be double jabbed and boosters are here for the winter I would fully support civil disobedience and businesses defying the regulations. The state cannot prevent death and as stated many times we tolerate sometimes tens of thousands of flu deaths in a year.

The UK covid map does look like we are going in the wrong direction and it is spreading everywhere again. Think it may be wishful thinking for any more restrictions to be reduced at the moment. In some places, if this carries on how it is, there may even be a need for a tightening up of restrictions.

Think it depends on how the NHS can cope with its present number of cases and backlog.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

Philosorapter said:
The UK covid map does look like we are going in the wrong direction and it is spreading everywhere again. Think it may be wishful thinking for any more restrictions to be reduced at the moment. In some places, if this carries on how it is, there may even be a need for a tightening up of restrictions.

Think it depends on how the NHS can cope with its present number of cases and backlog.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map

You tell me why weddings where everyone in attendance is vaccinated should carry on being restricted.

Philosoraptor · Jun 13, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You tell me why weddings where everyone in attendance is vaccinated should carry on being restricted.

Vaccination does not necessarily mean you can't be a spreader. Your symptoms are usually a lot milder. I don't know the research on the infection rate from the group of people who are vaccinated compared to other groups.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

Philosorapter said:
Vaccination does not necessarily mean you can't be a spreader. Your symptoms are usually a lot milder. I don't know the research on the infection rate from the group of people who are vaccinated compared to other groups.

So you think we should never be able to have a normal wedding then?

stupot07 · Jun 13, 2021

Anyone else aware there was one rule for the general public and businesses and a different set of rules for government business?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Philosoraptor · Jun 13, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
So you think we should never be able to have a normal wedding then?

It is a good question. I don't think you can label any event with what's going on at the moment as 'normal'. For me, there would be two options. Sit and wait, and hope things clean up, or have the wedding when there are as few restrictions as possible. Passage of time and all that.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

stupot07 said:
Anyone else aware there was one rule for the general public and businesses and a different set of rules for government business?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

What a fucking weasel. Still gets the working man I guess

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

Philosorapter said:
It is a good question. I don't think you can label any event with what's going on at the moment as 'normal'. For me, there would be two options. Sit and wait, and hope things clean up, or have the wedding when there are as few restrictions as possible. Passage of time and all that.

We have already pushed it back for a year, as have tens of thousands of other couples. Sorry, I don't think you really get it-quite simply, it just isn't fair at this point when vaccination is all anyone can reasonably ask

COV · Jun 13, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
So you think we should never be able to have a normal wedding then?

not being funny at all here, but you need to get your head around the fact that not everyone is a teacher, and not everyone is getting married- it’s not all about you and your situation.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

COV said:
not being funny at all here, but you need to get your head around the fact that not everyone is a teacher, and not everyone is getting married- it’s not all about you and your situation.

You don't see me pissing over other people's legitimate concerns and worries. Sick of being called selfish for daring to express them to be honest

COV · Jun 13, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You don't see me pissing over other people's legitimate concerns and worries. Sick of being called selfish for daring to express them to be honest

errrr you were just calling for civil disobedience

Grendel · Jun 13, 2021

COV said:
not being funny at all here, but you need to get your head around the fact that not everyone is a teacher, and not everyone is getting married- it’s not all about you and your situation.

The point is though people have bought into the bargain and the governments part is to open up once and for all as over 70 million vaccines have been delivered. We are still doing half a million a day so that’s another 5 million by the date and all people at risk have had the opportunity to be vaccinated

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

COV said:
errrr you were just calling for civil disobedience

In a specific situation where in September they want to bring back restrictions despite all adults being fully vaccinated and booster shots ready for the winter months. Mr Lloyd Webber I assume is also selfish for daring to reopen his theatres on the 21st, not everyone works in theatre you know...

Grendel · Jun 13, 2021

COV said:
errrr you were just calling for civil disobedience

People have delivered their part of the contract so of course if there is a breach people will be angry

Philosoraptor · Jun 13, 2021

It is a good question that BSB asks. I think after you have offered everyone in the UK a vaccination you can't just simply open up the doors and let the virus grow rampant through the country. People who are vaccinated are also going to be caught in that melee with the NHS at full stretch or much worse.

COV · Jun 13, 2021

Philosorapter said:
It is a good question that BSB asks. I think after you have offered everyone in the UK a vaccination you can't just simply open up the doors and let the virus grow rampant through the country. People who are vaccinated are also going to be caught in that melee with the NHS at full stretch or much worse.

yep

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

Philosorapter said:
It is a good question that BSB asks. I think after you have offered everyone in the UK a vaccination you can't just simply open up the doors and let the virus grow rampant through the country. People who are vaccinated are also going to be caught in that melee with NHS at full stretch or much worse.

The hospitalisation data is heavily skewed towards the totally unvaccinated, which at this point consists mostly of the under 30s and whose time in hospital is much shorter than for older Covid patients. We tolerate thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of flu deaths each year despite having an established vaccination programme for it each year. Covid we must accept to be the same unless people wish to advocate for permanently shutting off a large chunk of society.

Grendel · Jun 13, 2021

Philosorapter said:
It is a good question that BSB asks. I think after you have offered everyone in the UK a vaccination you can't just simply open up the doors and let the virus grow rampant through the country. People who are vaccinated are also going to be caught in that melee with the NHS at full stretch or much worse.

How can it go rampant if most have been vaccinated and what’s the answer then. Live in a bunker for eternity

Deleted member 4439 · Jun 13, 2021

jordan210 said:
There another march planed for tomorrow. Not that any of the other ones have made the news.

I expect this one will turn nasty. Others have been fairly peaceful.

Stand up for your rights!

Philosoraptor · Jun 13, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The hospitalisation data is heavily skewed towards the totally unvaccinated, which at this point consists mostly of the under 30s and whose time in hospital is much shorter than for older Covid patients. We tolerate thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of flu deaths each year despite having an established vaccination programme for it each year. Covid we must accept to be the same unless people wish to advocate for permanently shutting off a large chunk of society.

Grendel said:
How can it go rampant if most have been vaccinated and what’s the answer then. Live in a bunker for eternity

I think Govt is waiting on the evidence of what happens when more people are vaccinated. There are going to be people in hospitals with covid who are vaccinated or not vaccinated.

Deleted member 4439 · Jun 13, 2021

stupot07 said:
Anyone else aware there was one rule for the general public and businesses and a different set of rules for government business?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

https://giphy.com/xT5LMLlXiP01RYaAmc

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

Philosorapter said:
I think Govt is waiting on the evidence of what happens when more people are vaccinated. There are going to be people in hospitals with covid who are vaccinated or not vaccinated.

You can look at the data yourself. The much higher % is for those unvaccinated, very very few double jabbed. Without wishing to be called selfish for mentioning my profession, the sector contributing the most to infections at this moment in time is being kept open despite it being very much an indoors setting with many different households mixing.

These people speak for me and I imagine quite a lot of others

'We'll lose thousands if wedding rules don't change' - BBC News

clint van damme · Jun 13, 2021

How often is Johnson going to make big, Bold, over my dead body statements only to renege on them before people wake up to the fact we've got an incompetent bullshitter at the helm?

Philosoraptor · Jun 13, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You can look at the data yourself. The much higher % is for those unvaccinated, very very few double jabbed. Without wishing to be called selfish for mentioning my profession, the sector contributing the most to infections at this moment in time is being kept open despite it being very much an indoors setting with many different households mixing.

These people speak for me and I imagine quite a lot of others

'We'll lose thousands if wedding rules don't change' - BBC News

The Government though still has a duty to put restrictions on Liberty if the health service gets overwhelmed. You can't force people to be vaccinated. You have a duty of care on both groups to provide health services that are not overwhelmed.

clint van damme · Jun 13, 2021

Philosorapter said:
I think Govt is waiting on the evidence of what happens when more people are vaccinated. There are going to be people in hospitals with covid who are vaccinated or not vaccinated.

The evidence is Johnson is becoming an international pariah and is now having to curry favour with maniacs like Modi to try and drum up trade deals which is ultimately why planes kept landing from India and this variant has started to run riot.

skybluetony176 · Jun 13, 2021

clint van damme said:
How often is Johnson going to make big, Bold, over my dead body statements only to renege on them before people wake up to the fact we've got an incompetent bullshitter at the helm?

At least the length of this term, maybe one more.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 13, 2021

Philosorapter said:
The Government though still has a duty to put restrictions on Liberty if the health service gets overwhelmed. You can't force people to be vaccinated. You have a duty of care on both groups to provide health services that are not overwhelmed.

You cannot force people to be vaccinated, but the take up has been excellent in every age group and particularly so in those most at risk of serious illness. You seem to be in favour of a zero Covid strategy which is fair enough, but it isn't realistic or pragmatic when we do in fact have a precedent with the flu vaccination programme.

I'll ask again-do you want to permanently close businesses that operate indoors?

shmmeee · Jun 13, 2021

We shouldn’t have made such concrete plans before everyone was vaccinated really. It was always a danger there’d be a variant with vaccine escape.

Talking of which it’s gone very quiet on vaccination progress. I see the French are doing more per week now. Anyone know why we’ve slowed down?

shmmeee · Jun 13, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
At least the length of this term, maybe one more.

There’ll be an election next year I bet. Solidify his lead while the honeymoon is still fresh.

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (366 Viewers)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 4439

Guest

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 4439

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency