Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (13 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I’m sure you’re uneasy of proof of vaccination for events being used to coerce and manipulate behaviour aren’t you?

I very much doubt he is. When it comes down to it he’s very selective in his stance on authoritarian behaviour by the state

 

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[COV]

I’m not lauding anything and I don’t personally believe I have the right to judge what is valid and what isn’t.

I have also pointed out it’s not forced vaccination but a restriction in peoples ability to enjoy freedoms if they reject it. Perhaps they should all have to wear an orange boiler suit with a COVID emoji when they leave the house so we know who they are

I’m not sure what you mean by the last sentence. I do know piers Corbyn was fined £10,000 for organising a rally that broke COVID rules last year. I have looked but I can’t see evidence of other, far larger but more popular gatherings receiving the same treatment - how very odd

Every time someone says something you launch into an attack on various other countries (particularly Italy?) and various people who have nothing to do with what is being talked about as far as I can see

 

[wingy]

I’m sure you’re uneasy of proof of vaccination for events being used to coerce and manipulate behaviour aren’t you?

What percentage are we talking here Pete?

 

[Grendel]

Every time someone says something you launch into an attack on various other countries (particularly Italy?) and various people who have nothing to do with what is being talked about as far as I can see

I’m answering a question on protests - I’d like you to provide evidence on attacks on other counties. Interestingly many posters on here attack their own country but I guess that’s ok

 

[COV]

I’m sure you’re uneasy of proof of vaccination for events being used to coerce and manipulate behaviour aren’t you?

I genuinely see your point.

But wouldn't you say that with the current situation as it is, saying that its a means of "coercive behaviour" and "manipulation" is a bit over-dramatic?

Far as I can see people are talking about whether there is a way for as many people as possible to do what they want without putting others at risk- where is the problem with that?

 

[Grendel]

I genuinely see your point.

But wouldn't you say that with the current situation as it is, saying that its a means of "coercive behaviour" and "manipulation" is a bit over-dramatic?

Far as I can see people are talking about whether there is a way for as many people as possible to do what they want without putting others at risk- where is the problem with that?

So in countries that are now vaccinating school children would you deny their liberty if the do not have it and if not why not as they are high risk spreaders

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m answering a question on protests - I’d like you to provide evidence on attacks on other counties. Interestingly many posters on here attack their own country but I guess that’s ok

The government isn’t the country.

 

[COV]

I’m answering a question on protests - I’d like you to provide evidence on attacks on other counties. Interestingly many posters on here attack their own country but I guess that’s ok

I haven't attacked any country (at least knowingly ), but in the last couple of hours alone you've had a pop at Italy, Australia, Hungary, and boasted about how we'll be top of the vaccination league (which may well be true actually from the big nations), and thats without trawling through all the rest of all this.

I don't think you particularly have anything against any other country per se- but the second anyone says anything even mildly negative about us, you go all out to point out how everyone else is terrible. I don't know if its a diversion or if as someone else said you're a uber-nationalist- no big deal either way... but why the strange fascination with how Italy are getting it all wrong?

I mean- you bang on about protests everywhere else but fail to address someone calling for doctors & nurses to be "outed" and executed in our own capital city- which is more sinister to you?

 

[COV]

So in countries that are now vaccinating school children would you deny their liberty if the do not have it and if not why not as they are high risk spreaders

Are we vaccinating school children?

 

[Grendel]

I haven't attacked any country (at least knowingly ), but in the last couple of hours alone you've had a pop at Italy, Australia, Hungary, and boasted about how we'll be top of the vaccination league (which may well be true actually from the big nations), and thats without trawling through all the rest of all this.

I don't think you particularly have anything against any other country per se- but the second anyone says anything even mildly negative about us, you go all out to point out how everyone else is terrible. I don't know if its a diversion or as someone else says you're a uber-nationalist- no big deal either way... but why the strange fascination with how Italy are getting it all wrong?

I haven’t had a pop at anyone - we all know this is what you do

When you made an arse of yourself last time on here you disappeared for 6 months and crawled under a rock

I showed a factual link regarding protests in Italy and France - that’s it

 

[COV]

I haven’t had a pop at anyone - we all know this is what you do

When you made an arse of yourself last time on here you disappeared for 6 months and crawled under a rock

I showed a factual link regarding protests in Italy and France - that’s it

lol, that was not "it", you're doing it again

Everyone can see, its ok.

 

[Grendel]

lol, that was not "it", you're doing it again

Everyone can see, its ok.

Oh whose “everyone else”

 

[Deleted member 9744]

That rules out all of Europe then. Not North Korea though

So it was right to let these people die?

 

[Grendel]

So it was right to let these people die?

Are you being serious? Globally about 4 million have is it? What do you think - pit every government in the dock?

 

[COV]

Are you being serious? Globally about 4 million have is it? What do you think - pit every government in the dock?

You're doing it again, he is talking about us in the UK and the things we got wrong (care homes, trips to India would be two I'd guess), but you immediately start talking about everywhere else.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Are you being serious? Globally about 4 million have is it? What do you think - pit every government in the dock?

Our record is far worse than most. And Australia 's one of the best. So crazy that you are criticising them but praising our incompetence

 

[SBT]

Who said it? (No Googling)

“I’ve said before that we should be open-minded, and frankly, what I’d say is that when the state provides services to people then it’s a two-way street – you’ve got to take your responsibilities, too,”

“So I think there’s a very strong argument for having compulsory vaccinations for children when they go to school, because otherwise they’re putting other children at risk.”

“I think there’s a very strong argument for movement to compulsory vaccination, and I think the public would back us.”

 

[COV]

Our record is far worse than most. And Australia 's one of the best. So crazy that you are criticising them but praising our incompetence

I don't think we're the absolute worst in the world, but some huge mistakes were made and we're right up there unfortunately, I don't think anyone could doubt that. That Brazilian nutter, he's probably be my pick for the worst, maybe Trump pushes him though.

What I don't get is why its apparently impossible to be proud of your country but also acknowledge that we get it really badly wrong on some things, thats just life, nobody is perfect.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Are you being serious? Globally about 4 million have is it? What do you think - pit every government in the dock?

Do you think it was right not to protect care homes, to let people return to them with covid?
Was it right to discourage people from wearing masks at the start?
Was it right to delay putting India on the red list while countries with lower incidence were in it?
Do people who made these mistakes not have to face up to this?

Shouldn't countries that have had very few deaths like Australia and New Zealand and who have had much more of their societies open throughout not be what we aspire to?

 

[COV]

Who said it? (No Googling)

I would guess one of Johnson/ Javid/ Hancock?

 

[Grendel]

Oh dear the full sixth form master debating society is out in force - I’ll come back when they’ve gone to bed

 

[COV]

Oh dear the full sixth form master debating society is out in force - I’ll come back when they’ve gone to bed

That won't be long if I'm included in that gang (and I'm honoured)- not slept for days with this blasted heat and I need a lie down with some ice cream and netflix

...but when you do come back will you even attempt to answer him?

 

[Grendel]

Who said it? (No Googling)

I know who said it. Do I get measles as a reward

 

[Grendel]

That won't be long if I'm included in that gang (and I'm honoured)- not slept for days with this blasted heat and I need a lie down with some ice cream and netflix

...but when you do come back will you even attempt to answer him?

Why bother answering. It’s a political agenda ridden question with someone who has an agenda

 

[Sick Boy]

I need a lie down with some ice cream and netflix

Can’t imagine what that’s a euphemism for.

 

[COV]

Why bother answering. It’s a political agenda ridden question with someone who has an agenda

Fair enough, not how I see it though and even if it was an agenda they are genuine questions surely, I would like to hear what you think on those questions, I don't think I've ever heard your opinions about those things, just about every other country. I know you think that by answering you'll potentially be jumped on but who cares? Its a football forum. I think you'd get less grief if you were more honest and less obvious in trying to avoid anything thats not 100% pro UK/ Conservatives

 

[COV]

For what its worth, my twopenneth:

Do you think it was right not to protect care homes, to let people return to them with covid? NO, PEOPLE NEED LOCKING UP FOR THAT
Was it right to discourage people from wearing masks at the start? NO, BUT THAT WAS IGNORANCE NOT MALELOVANCE
Was it right to delay putting India on the red list while countries with lower incidence were in it? NO, THATS ON JOHNSON
Do people who made these mistakes not have to face up to this? YES... BUT IN WHAT WAY?

Shouldn't countries that have had very few deaths like Australia and New Zealand and who have had much more of their societies open throughout not be what we aspire to? IN SOME WAYS BUT THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, CAN'T DIRECTLY COMPARE.. ON COVID.. YES

 

[SBT]

I know who said it. Do I get measles as a reward

Were you upset at the idea of mandatory vaccines for schoolkids at the time? Or have you changed your mind since all the recent protests you’ve been following?

 

[Grendel]

Were you upset at the idea of mandatory vaccines for schoolkids at the time? Or have you changed your mind since all the recent protests you’ve been following?

I’ve always been against

Vaccine compulsory strategy for any age groups
Identity cards
Voter identity proof

I’m not following any protests I do support right to do so however and am against selective punishment of certain protests and protesters based on a popularity contest

 

[COV]

I’ve always been against

Vaccine compulsory strategy for any age groups
Identity cards
Voter identity proof

I’m not following any protests I do support right to do so however and am against selective punishment of certain protests and protesters based on a popularity contest

Not even the woman who was essentially inciting people to go after doctors & nurses?

Where is your line

 

[skybluetony176]

Who said it? (No Googling)

Good old MHancock. Whatever happened to him?

 

[Grendel]

Not even the woman who was essentially inciting people to go after doctors & nurses?

Where is your line

That’s not a protest though is it that’s inciting violence. The politicians like Patel get threats and abuse all the time and that also isn’t acceptable is it?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What percentage are we talking here Pete?

Percentage of events? Or people? I’ve changed my mind I don’t think any level is ok.

 

[SBT]

I’ve always been against

Vaccine compulsory strategy for any age groups
Identity cards
Voter identity proof

I’m not following any protests I do support right to do so however and am against selective punishment of certain protests and protesters based on a popularity contest

Classic (Piers) Corbyn-lover response!

Nah that’s fair enough. I don’t really see compulsory vaccination as directly comparable to something like compulsory ID cards, but that’s a whole different argument.

I was honestly surprised by how many vaccines are already mandatory in places like France though. Amazing how easily people can be whipped up into a frenzy against something which is already common practice.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I genuinely see your point.

But wouldn't you say that with the current situation as it is, saying that its a means of "coercive behaviour" and "manipulation" is a bit over-dramatic?

Far as I can see people are talking about whether there is a way for as many people as possible to do what they want without putting others at risk- where is the problem with that?

As I say the danger for the fruit loops is it looks like the vaccine doesn’t stand or fall on its own merit. I need to understand a little more about why double vaccinated people are getting seriously ill and dying to be certain of my opinion. I genuinely see your opinion too. I don’t trust johnson and Javid