Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (194 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Could also be that younger people don’t like the government or politicians in general, can only speak for me but when I was younger I would have had zero interest whatsoever an anything a politician said.

70% have taken a dose

 

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[COV]

I’m hardly prickly - Hungary used the Sputnik vaccine as the EU procurement policy was so negligent they had no supply - they broke ranks and used an inferior vaccine

I’m sure as Ring of Steel you were very scathing we didn’t go the Eu procurement route didn’t you? I’ll try and find it

But who is talking about Hungary? You should look at the info on the link, Hungary are way down the list with Malta and Iceland top. I’m saying that when you have a population of under a million you’re very likely going to have a higher rate than a country with 60m- way harder to influence so many people. I don’t think the UK will be highest in Europe, although we may well be higher than the other ‘big’ nations. As for the rest of it no problem, I’ll be someone else tomorrow

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I have the right to be protected against people who are willing to put me at risk as much as people have the choice to be vaccinated. If I go to the cinema I want people in there with me to have done as much to protect me as I have to protect them.
The people who are refusing the vaccine are selfish, is it unfair on them to exclude them or unfair on everyone else to be put at what is at the end of the day avoidable risk?

I think selfish is unfair. But more importantly you reduce the trust in the vaccine by coercing and manipulating people to take it that’s my point

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

There isn’t one. We have never forced MMR we have never forced flu vaccines. You encourage take up not force. Democratic societies don’t force or then victimise those concerned about it

The choice is to take the vaccine or not. The argument needs to be won on the grounds of being right not manipulation and coercion. I’ve changed my mind now having seen the vitriol. Science and evidence wins not threats. It’s not about slippery slope it’s just wrong to coerce people to take vaccines. I may change my mind again if someone can show me facts about the issues the minority are causing

But in the past it's been easier to encourage take up because it wasn't as easy for the nutcases opposing it to interact with and influence millions of people almost immediately via the internet and being given as much publicity as those qualified to talk about it. Take this woman ranting in London. Beforehand such a thing would have never got much further than those few nutters listening in that park, and where it did it would spread slowly and be manageable. Now everyone around the country knows about it in the space of a few hours and it can cause far more widespread damage much more quickly

Now you've got that problem you've got to stamp down to stop these unfounded rumours and conspiracies, but that's going to take time. We don't have that time to deal with a healthcare emergency so you're going to have to use as much carrot and stick as you can to get people vaccinated. I think forcing people can be counter-productive and, in this society, will see people push back against authority because they don't like being told what to do. It just adds to the conspiracy theories because if they're forcing you what is it they're not telling you.

But even if you use a soft approach like offering incentives, tax breaks or even cash to get people on board it won't stop those theories. Again if anything adds fuel to the fire. A harder approach, such as telling people refusal of the vaccine will lead to restrictions on your ability to work, travel, recreation or at an extreme level refusal of treatment for Covid complications should they arise, would be the same but are seen as authoritarian, callous and uncaring.

 

[Sick Boy]

They’re also making doctors and nurses who refuse vaccination to take unpaid leave here.
Anecdotally these are those who don’t believe the virus is real and the vaccine is related to a global conspiracy to control people.

 

[shmmeee]

This happened today also.

Anti-vax protesters try to storm Covid test centre as thousands join demos

ANTI-vaccine protesters have tried to storm a Covid test centre in Manchester today. Police were forced to guard the centre as banner-waving activists gathered outside. Thousands also descended on …

www.google.co.uk

Morons

Arrest the lot of them. Or section them

Had it with these pricks now. Freedom of speech is fine, when it spills over into this shite it’s no different from Abu Hamza spouting shot that makes people commit terrorism. Lock the fuckers up for inciting violence.

If you couldn’t be arsed to pay attention in school and can’t parse info on the internet that’s your look out. They’re not babies and we need to stop mollycoddling them.

 

[COV]

They’re also making doctors and nurses who refuse vaccination to take unpaid leave here.

For how long?

 

[skybluetony176]

I think selfish is unfair. But more importantly you reduce the trust in the vaccine by coercing and manipulating people to take it that’s my point

The opposite of that is you reduce the trust in the vaccine when we can’t reach a point of heard immunity because selfish adults are refusing it. They’re the ones holding us all to ransom. Like I said, I want to go to a cinema safe in the knowledge that everyone in there has done everything that they can to protect me as I have to protect them. It’s up to them. I shouldn’t be put of from going anywhere because heard immunity hasn’t been achieved thanks to a minority. Selfish is absolutely the right word if you ask me.

 

[Sick Boy]

For how long?

For the rest of the year, so far.

 

[Grendel]

They’re also making doctors and nurses who refuse vaccination to take unpaid leave here.
Anecdotally these are those who don’t believe the virus is real and the vaccine is related to a global conspiracy to control people.

That’s different. Doctors and nurses have had to take vaccines as a condition for their job - does it apply to the biggest spreader of interest though - the domestic carer?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

There is the argument that the people who are refusing the vaccine are driving the need and therefore the decision to have a vaccine passport in the first place.

Passport and legally limiting freedoms needs a high bar. I do understand that argument just don’t agree with it

 

[Sick Boy]

That’s different. Doctors and nurses have had to take vaccines as a condition for their job - does it apply to the biggest spreader of interest though - the domestic carer?

The culture around domestic care is quite different and most live with families or the individual permanently and the contract is managed by the family.

 

[Grendel]

The culture around domestic care is quite different and most live with families or the individual permanently and the contract is managed by the family.

I’m sure there are plenty of domestic caters in Italy employed by private contractors.

 

[Sick Boy]

I’m sure there are plenty of domestic caters in Italy employed by private contractors.

I’m there are but the majority won’t be.

 

[Grendel]

I’m there are but the majority won’t be.

Which is the same as every country but again isn’t the point - your Sterling nationalism for your adopted homeland though is charming

Shame you didn’t some here from Italy - you’d be spreading your legs for Boris every 5 minutes on here

 

[Sick Boy]

Which is the same as every country but again isn’t the point - your Sterling nationalism for your adopted homeland though is charming

Shame you didn’t some here from Italy - you’d be spreading your legs for Boris every 5 minutes on here

What a bizarre post.
No one spreads their legs for Johnson as much as you.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The much heralded Australia looks like it’s zero Covid policy was not a smart move

Australia Covid: Arrests at anti-lockdown protests - BBC News

Thousands take to the streets in Sydney, with further protests in Melbourne and Brisbane.

www.google.co.uk

Why? Because there's been protests? Like there have been here, despite the fact we were never under anywhere near as heavy restrictions as they have been. Only they haven't suffered from Covid anywhere near as badly as we have.

You have this obsession with populism. Just because people believe or want something doesn't make it right. For centuries popular belief fought heliocentricty and people were killed for it. They were wrong and it put the progression of knowledge back centuries. We had a popular belief that witches were the cause of disease etc and popular opinion wanted them discovered and killed. It was complete bollocks.

 

[COV]

Which is the same as every country but again isn’t the point - your Sterling nationalism for your adopted homeland though is charming

Shame you didn’t some here from Italy - you’d be spreading your legs for Boris every 5 minutes on here

err.. have you checked your avatar?

 

[Sick Boy]

err.. have you checked your avatar?

He's the most nationalist Johnson sycophant on the whole forum.

 

[COV]

It represents about 1% of the total, it's a non story and Peston is an idiot

Correct

 

[fernandopartridge]

Going forward, you'd assume it will increase as a %age however.

And FWIW, surely it's in government's interests to include it, as what it then does is make %age of infected people suffering seriously from Covid... lower? Going forward, if people get reinfected but do relatively OK, that's surely a very valuable thing to know, and also to see playing out?

The likelihood is though that a reinfection will be milder due to vaccine and / or prior infection.

I think the issue is that we're in the transition from epidemic to endemic and some of the previous reporting becomes a bit less relevant. We don't report all other endemic virus to the same extent.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The likelihood is though that a reinfection will be milder due to vaccine and / or prior infection.

That was kind of my point, that you want to telegraph that, rather than not report it... especially if you want full confidence to return.

 

[fernandopartridge]

That was kind of my point, that you want to telegraph that, rather than not report it... especially if you want full confidence to return.

I know but on the other hand reporting it just produces a headline

 

[David O'Day]

The choice is to take the vaccine or not. The argument needs to be won on the grounds of being right not manipulation and coercion. I’ve changed my mind now having seen the vitriol. Science and evidence wins not threats. It’s not about slippery slope it’s just wrong to coerce people to take vaccines. I may change my mind again if someone can show me facts about the issues the minority are causing

The government has a duty of care to people and is well within it's rights to say "Feel free to not have a vaccine but there will be things you will need to be vaccinated for".

 

[David O'Day]

Why? Because there's been protests? Like there have been here, despite the fact we were never under anywhere near as heavy restrictions as they have been. Only they haven't suffered from Covid anywhere near as badly as we have.

You have this obsession with populism. Just because people believe or want something doesn't make it right. For centuries popular belief fought heliocentricty and people were killed for it. They were wrong and it put the progression of knowledge back centuries. We had a popular belief that witches were the cause of disease etc and popular opinion wanted them discovered and killed. It was complete bollocks.

I'd say that the zero covid policy attached to a frankly awful vaccine program has meant that the have a scarily low amout of immunity at the moment so outbreaks will spread like wildfire

 

[COV]

The government has a duty of care to people and is well within it's rights to say "Feel free to not have a vaccine but there will be things you will need to be vaccinated for".

I don’t see a problem with this, you wouldn’t leave car insurance or buying fags & booze under 18 to individual choice would you

 

[shmmeee]

Don’t see the problem with workplaces making requirements TBH. I’ve had to remove piercings and cut/change my hair to keep different jobs. It was my choice whether I wanted the job more than I wanted my freedom of expression.

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[COV]

So they end up kicking off with each other. Why do they all hate the police so much?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'd say that the zero covid policy attached to a frankly awful vaccine program has meant that the have a scarily low amout of immunity at the moment so outbreaks will spread like wildfire

Yep they got a head start, and are in danger of squandering it.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

The much heralded Australia looks like it’s zero Covid policy was not a smart move

Australia Covid: Arrests at anti-lockdown protests - BBC News

Thousands take to the streets in Sydney, with further protests in Melbourne and Brisbane.

www.google.co.uk

No. Better to have 130,000 dead than a few protests.

 

[COV]

No. Better to have 130,000 dead than a few protests.

Hard to argue with that

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I don’t know why you get sensitive - I’m pointing out acts of this diet can’t be ignored. If 80 cities in the U.K. say had thousands protesting against the Johnson government and its handling of the pandemic you would just dismiss them as cranks?

So why didn't we listened to the substantial greater numbers who protested against Brexit?

 

[Grendel]

So why didn't we listened to the substantial greater numbers who protested against Brexit?

Well they weren’t the majority anyway just a bunch of cranks. Also they had a democratic vote and lost