Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (75 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

Its hard to know what to think about the variant. Still early days and more data needed but some reports seem to suggest nothing to worry about while others indicate the opposite. This one from Reuters for example.

OHANNESBURG, Dec 14 (Reuters) - Pfizer-BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine has been less effective in South Africa at keeping people infected with the virus out of hospital since the Omicron variant emerged last month, a real-world study published on Tuesday showed.

Between Nov. 15 and Dec. 7, people who had received two doses of the shot had a 70% chance of avoiding hospitalisation, down from 93% during the previous wave of Delta infections, the study showed.

When it came to avoiding infection altogether, the study by South Africa's largest private health insurance administrator, Discovery Health, showed that protection against catching COVID-19 had slumped to 33% from 80% previously.

The findings from the real-world analysis are some of the first about the protection vaccines offer against Omicron outside of laboratory studies, which have so far shown a reduced ability to neutralise the virus.

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

I have work early , I think I've already several times over made my feelings known on this , I actually agree with Jeremy corbyn this is probably going to be one of those things where in 20 years time , people look back , like they did when he was in charge of the opposition and say " he was right and nobody listened "

Dangerous precedent, slippery slope , will never be for it

Slippery slope is an argument put forward when a person is not able to argue in full the merits of the proposal at hand. It is a dangerous precedent and has to be based on evidence which as you say has not been made.
I think on balance I’m against forcing anyone unless there is incontrovertible evidence that it will make a difference. Ie you can’t get it or transmit it or if you pass it on the fatality rate is very high
Slippery slope is rubbish unless what is being said is evidence is not important in making difficult decisions

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Good news if that’s a reputable tweeter

 

[fernandopartridge]

I've started looking into going private.

Dont have a pot to piss in most months with expendable income but id rather be destitute and know my children, partner and myself could get a lump checked out or blood tests done within a fortnight instead of being pushed down the list because of a variant

It's almost as if the plan is working isn't it?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What i wanna know is, with the NHS already severely understaffed, how are these 60000 doctors and nurses and care workers (lets take off 34000 that may be in day an admin role) going to be replaced?

Let alone fucking adding numbers of them.

Its going to collapse, the whole system. We're already at 6 millions on waiting lists, We're already seeing people struggling to see GP's, i really see this as the end of the NHS. Cant see it carrying on after this whatsoever

If Nick is correct (and I think he is) this was about getting people boosted rather than anything else and it had the desired effect

 

[Nick]

Yeah but if everybody gets boosted then there will be no need for Pfizers new wonder pill? The one that helps you with the Omicron.

 

[chiefdave]

If you're arguing that due to a lack of staff the NHS shouldn't require vaccination against covid shouldn't you also be against the existing vaccination requirements for NHS staff or is there some particular reason it should only apply to the covid vaccine?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

EDIT: Ahh fuck it!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yeah but if everybody gets boosted then there will be no need for Pfizers new wonder pill? The one that helps you with the Omicron.

You do make it hard to agree with you. Maybe you’re right this is all a capitalist conspiracy to maximise profits for the pharmaceutical industry. I hope not but it’s a reasonable argument. Need evidence though

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If you're arguing that due to a lack of staff the NHS shouldn't require vaccination against covid shouldn't you also be against the existing vaccination requirements for NHS staff or is there some particular reason it should only apply to the covid vaccine?

I checked as someone challenged me, some trusts expect other vaccinations but not the nhs. Some roles do too for things like hepatitis but not all roles. Losing European resource means it’s not a good time to reduce the pool we are fishing in if you pardon the pun

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Aren't the NHS going to deploy people away from front line rolls rather than sack them?

Either way, if the hospitals start getting overwhelmed having an ICU nurse either on the dole or shuffling papers in an office doesn't make sense just because she's not jabbed.

I don't want to see people lose their jobs or see workers taken away from the front line which is where many of the problems lie, but if ICU was being overwhelmed and a nurse is on the dole or shuffling papers does it make sense just because they won't wash their hands or wear protective equipment? Or does it pose an unnecessary risk of infection that could easily be mitigated and there would rightly be uproar and recriminations if said nurse were allowed to continue doing their job and endanger patients?

If patients are seeking or undergoing medical treatment there is a much higher chance that they will be in one of the vulnerable categories that puts them at higher risk. It's also an environment that is likely to have covid present and so easier to catch and transmit to others. This makes it potentially a very dangerous environment and all things must be done to reduce that danger.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I don't want to see people lose their jobs or see workers taken away from the front line which is where many of the problems lie, but if ICU was being overwhelmed and a nurse is on the dole or shuffling papers does it make sense just because they won't wash their hands or wear protective equipment? Or does it pose an unnecessary risk of infection that could easily be mitigated and there would rightly be uproar and recriminations if said nurse were allowed to continue doing their job and endanger patients?

If patients are seeking or undergoing medical treatment there is a much higher chance that they will be in one of the vulnerable categories that puts them at higher risk. It's also an environment that is likely to have covid present and so easier to catch and transmit to others. This makes it potentially a very dangerous environment and all things must be done to reduce that danger.

Well reasoned that

 

[David O'Day]

I really do live rent-free in your head don’t I Mavis?

Not really, I only really think of you when you make a fool of yourself on here which to be fair is a lot these days.

 

[Nick]

I don't want to see people lose their jobs or see workers taken away from the front line which is where many of the problems lie, but if ICU was being overwhelmed and a nurse is on the dole or shuffling papers does it make sense just because they won't wash their hands or wear protective equipment? Or does it pose an unnecessary risk of infection that could easily be mitigated and there would rightly be uproar and recriminations if said nurse were allowed to continue doing their job and endanger patients?

If patients are seeking or undergoing medical treatment there is a much higher chance that they will be in one of the vulnerable categories that puts them at higher risk. It's also an environment that is likely to have covid present and so easier to catch and transmit to others. This makes it potentially a very dangerous environment and all things must be done to reduce that danger.

This is a genuine question as I don't know.

Are nurses / hospital staff doing weekly / daily COVID tests?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

This is a genuine question as I don't know.

Are nurses / hospital staff doing weekly / daily COVID tests?

I don't know. Ideally they would but that's going to be a lot of tests and we're struggling to fill demand.

 

[Nick]

I don't know. Ideally they would but that's going to be a lot of tests and we're struggling to fill demand.

So there could actually be staff wondering about with a symptomless infection anyway?

This latest variant "so far" looks to be spreading more in Vaccinated people too. I'm double jabbed so yeah that includes me.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So there could actually be staff wondering about with a symptomless infection anyway?

This latest variant "so far" looks to be spreading more in Vaccinated people too. I'm double jabbed so yeah that includes me.

I don't know. Maybe one of those that works or has a relative working in healthcare can enlighten us.

 

[Nick]

I don't know. Maybe one of those that works or has a relative working in healthcare can enlighten us.

You would think they are being tested before their run of shifts at the very least?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Covid vaccine: People told to travel 100 miles to register overseas jab

People vaccinated abroad must register their jab in person - but only 16 sites are available to do so.

www.bbc.co.uk

View attachment 23145

hahaha you couldn’t make it up. This place really is a fucking joke

Try a Birmingham post code.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So there could actually be staff wondering about with a symptomless infection anyway?

This latest variant "so far" looks to be spreading more in Vaccinated people too. I'm double jabbed so yeah that includes me.

My sister said people in hospital just in medical secretary offices weren’t masked or doing social distancing so I’m sure testing isn’t daily. You would think lateral flow testing would be a no brainer for anyone in that environment daily. I know in the prison I volunteer at they do multiple times a week

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You would think they are being tested before their run of shifts at the very least?

I would certainly hope so, yes.

 

[PVA]

NHS staff are supposed to test themselves twice a week.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

NHS staff are supposed to test themselves twice a week.

Same as school. Surprised labour havent raised that. It’s more of a risk than unvaccinated people working in hospitals.

 

[Nick]

NHS staff are supposed to test themselves twice a week.

I assume that will be carrying on even when everybody who works is jabbed?

 

[chiefdave]

I checked as someone challenged me, some trusts expect other vaccinations but not the nhs. Some roles do too for things like hepatitis but not all roles. Losing European resource means it’s not a good time to reduce the pool we are fishing in if you pardon the pun

The pandemic has certainly highlighted a lot of self inflicted issues. As with anything if you're trying to run on the minimum of resources you can get away with when something unexpected happens you've got a problem.

We've seen the NHS in crisis every winter for years with ambulances queuing outside hospitals and people dying on trollies because no beds are available but it just seems to be an accepted thing now. The system simply doesn't have the capacity to cope with any additional pressures hence we're seeing treatment for other conditions pushed aside just to try and cope with covid.

 

[Nick]

I checked as someone challenged me, some trusts expect other vaccinations but not the nhs. Some roles do too for things like hepatitis but not all roles. Losing European resource means it’s not a good time to reduce the pool we are fishing in if you pardon the pun

So it's not mandatory to have any other vaccinations in the NHS other than the COVID one?

I can see they didn't decide to make Flu Jabs mandatory yesterday.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

So it's not mandatory to have any other vaccinations in the NHS other than the COVID one?

I can see they didn't decide to make Flu Jabs mandatory yesterday.

Yep....Hep B is mandatory for some limited specialist roles but ALL OTHER vaccinations are advised through best practice, but not mandated......

..until now!

 

[Nick]

Have they said why they chose not to make Flu Jabs mandatory?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Have they said why they chose not to make Flu Jabs mandatory?

No....but i'm guessing its cos flu is not "as deadly" or "as contagious" and the flu jabs are less effective than the covid jabs.....

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yep....Hep B is mandatory for some limited specialist roles but ALL OTHER vaccinations are advised through best practice, but not mandated......

..until now!

Some trusts make it mandatory but not Hmrc as a whole

 

[fernandopartridge]

No....but i'm guessing its cos flu is not "as deadly" or "as contagious" and the flu jabs are less effective than the covid jabs.....

If you're a nurse looking after immunocompromised patients flu is very dangerous

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

If you're a nurse looking after immunocompromised patients flu is very dangerous

I still think the notion that no one died of it last year is bollocks.

 

[Nick]

I still think the notion that no one died of it last year is bollocks.

They did didn't they?

• Deaths involving Influenza and Pneumonia (underlying or secondary cause): 111,957
• Deaths due to Influenza and Pneumonia (underlying cause): 20,523

 

[clint van damme]

I don't want to see people lose their jobs or see workers taken away from the front line which is where many of the problems lie, but if ICU was being overwhelmed and a nurse is on the dole or shuffling papers does it make sense just because they won't wash their hands or wear protective equipment? Or does it pose an unnecessary risk of infection that could easily be mitigated and there would rightly be uproar and recriminations if said nurse were allowed to continue doing their job and endanger patients?

If patients are seeking or undergoing medical treatment there is a much higher chance that they will be in one of the vulnerable categories that puts them at higher risk. It's also an environment that is likely to have covid present and so easier to catch and transmit to others. This makes it potentially a very dangerous environment and all things must be done to reduce that danger.

Not washing your hands has never been acceptable.
Not being vacinnated was OK yesterday today its not.

As for PPE, they worked for months without adequate PPE thanks to the crooks in charge.

 

[Nick]

Not washing your hands has never been acceptable.
Not being vacinnated was OK yesterday today its not.

As for PPE, they worked for months without adequate PPE thanks to the crooks in charge.

What I don't get is that they pushed it all through after the scare stories they "created" about Omicron.

Shouldn't they have waited to find out more first? What happens if it turns out that in real terms that they will be potentially getting rid of people over not much statistical risk. (assuming they are all being tested often still).