Do you have medical experience or expertise?
So nobody should state what the experts have said but it is OK for you to state 3 to 4 weeks?
Where was the bullshit so I’m perfectly safe after 12 weeks am I?Not recently they haven't, not trying to be a twat just trying to understand why people spew so much absolute bullshit in a time where there is so little information around and people are scared to fuck about it
But you had a go at someone else quoting other experts.That's what the experts have said, we are 3 to 4 weeks behind Italy
"COBRA meeting is happening at 5pm so there won’t be PM press conference - but still expect to hear from Boris Johnson later on tonight"
Lockdown announcement later?
And back to your 3 to 4 week statement.....I'm not the one pulling figures out of their arse and presenting it as facts, that's my issue with the whole situation right now... It's not a personal attack on yourself just an observation that's all
Italy peak is now, some of the experts are saying we are 2/3 weeks behind them thats why the peak is 3 weeks away
But you had a go at someone else quoting other experts.
The truth is nobody knows. Especially as we have many ignoring all advice.
That’s ok I was just doing what the politicians and scientists are doing. Oh and I do know the difference between peak and eradication do you?It wasn't ment as having a go it was a genuine interest as to where the 6 month figure came from (turns out it was out of his arse) I'm just so sick and tired of people presenting opinion as fact as it's fucking dangerous
But it is all opinion. Some have a better qualified opinion than others but that is it. We don't have lots of knowledge on the subject.It wasn't ment as having a go it was a genuine interest as to where the 6 month figure came from (turns out it was out of his arse) I'm just so sick and tired of people presenting opinion as fact as it's fucking dangerous
I read another article that dismissed it as regardless of the air temperature body temperature is a constant and it’s in the body where the virus manifests not the open air.Did anyone see the article in a weekend newspaper that shows that the vast majority of cases are in a band across the globe with a temperature range of 5c to 12c?
Could that offer a glimmer of hope?
That’s ok I was just doing what the politicians and scientists are doing. Oh and I do know the difference between peak and eradication do you?
I read another article that dismissed it as regardless of the air temperature body temperature is a constant and it’s in the body where the virus manifests not the open air.
The article seems to be describing exactly the way the UK is trying to handle itDon’t know if it’s been posted before but this is a very interesting read and would suggest that social distancing is the way to go.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwixyJTQgLHoAhUJa8AKHabSB-8QFjAAegQIBhAC&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/&usg=AOvVaw0SB095-JWF150KLERdkmdN
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The heart rate monitor makes the little tune....Ten days after you visited McDonalds when you should have been at home, you're in hospital dying, your lungs are being eaten away by the virus, you burp and still taste Big Mac sauce, smile to your sobbing loved ones and gasp "i'm lovin' it"
I read another article that dismissed it as regardless of the air temperature body temperature is a constant and it’s in the body where the virus manifests not the open air.
"COBRA meeting is happening at 5pm so there won’t be PM press conference - but still expect to hear from Boris Johnson later on tonight"
Lockdown announcement later?
I don’t know but look what happened in Hong Kong it reduced then came backI only quote peak as once we get out of that the restrictions will start to get lifted (as they have in China for example) eradication will take much much longer than that, you cant surely believe that we will have these restrictions in place until eradication....
I don’t know but look what happened in Hong Kong it reduced then came back
12000?The article seems to be describing exactly the way the UK is trying to handle it
There was an interesting article in the Sunday Times yesterday of an expat's experience in Rome as things escalated
See below
Looks like we are following the same path
Coronavirus in Italy: for once, peace reigns in anarchic Rome. We’ve learnt to love the lockdown
It was hard weaning people off their sociability, but Romans have responded to the new reality, writes the novelist Matthew Kneale
The Pantheon has few visitors
Matthew Kneale
Sunday March 22 2020, 12.01am, The Sunday Times
Share
Save
Tuesday, March 10
I have a sensitivity, even slight paranoia, concerning plagues. Perhaps it’s because I owe my existence to one. In 1918, my grandfather, who was a theatre and opera critic in Berlin, married for the first time. He was 51 and his bride was 19 (I make no comment). Within months she was pregnant and a few months later she was dead. The Spanish flu, in mirror image to Covid-19, spared the old and was most dangerous for those in young adulthood, and especially to pregnant women. Two years later, my grandfather married again, to one of the bridesmaids of his first wedding, also 19 (again I make no comment) — my grandmother.
Any news of alarming new diseases catches my sense of danger. Many of our friends found it very amusing when, during the 2003 Sars epidemic, they saw my stock of pasta, cheese and long-life milk. They were right — Italy had only four Sars cases and no deaths. We never did drink the long-life milk.
This time, the government was absolutely right to bring in a lockdown. Something is being done, and there’s a palpable sense of relief that we know where we are. The Romans, who I’ve always viewed as being amiably anarchic, seem to be getting quite into it all, rather to my surprise.
As my son, Alexander, needed to get out of the house, we went to a bakery and cafe. It was very quiet and the cash girl had put flower pots in front of the till desk so you couldn’t stand near her when you paid, with black tape on the floor to make it even clearer. Empty cups were collected by a man wearing rubber gloves. They had an air of busy correctness, a pride, too, for doing their part against the virus.
When Alexander and I got back from our coffees, Cinzia, our portiere, gave me the latest news. She’s a very Roman presence in all the best ways: warm, extremely loud and possessed of a strong and tough sense of humour. She told me — shouting through the glass of her cubicle — that there was insanity at all the supermarkets: huge queues and people being let in two at a time. They’ll all have given each other the virus in the crowds. I’ll shop in a day or two when they’ll be quiet again.
Alexander and Tatiana, my daughter, are in pretty good spirits. Their school’s online lessons are coming together, and they can enjoy seeing their teachers look foolish as they try to cope with the tech.
Wednesday, March 11
Alexander and I took a stroll round the boundaries of our new, more limited world. Except for work, we have to stay in our postal code area, 00153 Roma. It includes Trastevere, where we live, the Aventino area and Testaccio, which has the best food market in Rome. This was very quiet today but still functioning — with new arrangements. When I started to pick some oranges, the stallholder told me, in a friendly enough way, that these could only be touched with gloves. As I had none, she chose them for me.
We can still walk up the Gianicolo hill to Villa Sciarra park and the huge fountain, where the Acqua Paola aqueduct arrives in the city, and to Porta Settimiana in the old city wall. But no further. Our Rome has shrunk. The Pantheon, Piazza Navona and the Campo de’ Fiori, which I used to stroll through almost daily, are now off limits.
Very quiet but functioning: Testaccio has the city’s best food market
MATTHEW KNEALE
Even within our postal code area, going out is discouraged. I heard tonight that the police arrested 161 people today for not having a good reason to be where they were. In the past couple of days, however, our main concern has not been how to escape this narrowing world but rather how to get into it. Last Friday, when all seemed so different, my wife, Shannon, flew to Canada to visit her parents — a trip arranged months ago. Yesterday evening she rang, very upset, as she’d just heard that her flight back, booked for next Sunday, had been cancelled. Ryanair, easyJet and BA had ended all their flights to Italy and she wondered if she’d ever be able to get home. After some fretting, she bought a ticket via Frankfurt. Even then the airline staff couldn’t guarantee that the Frankfurt-Rome flight would fly. After a stressful wait in the airport, watching flight after flight cancelled, she got home early this evening.
Concerned that I should have a good meal ready for her, I went out shopping. There’s nothing like a dose of plague to change one’s sense of space. As I walked along the pavements, I found myself stepping away from people coming towards me, and they did the same. This new virus dance is more awkward in supermarkets where every inch of space is filled. In a smallish grocery shop we often go to, I found myself awkwardly stepping by someone as we were edged close together by a huge bank of Easter eggs. The queue, which is normally a tightly packed scrum, had a strangely spread-out look. Pieces of tape had been laid out on the ground marked “1 metre” to separate the queuers from one another. Staff at the tills were guarded from customers’ breath by Perspex shields.
I also visited our delicatessen, a local legend run by Roberto and his wife, Anna. They told me that, regretfully, they were going to close for at least a couple of weeks. Operating in the virus lockdown was too hard. I suspect it will be a lot longer than two weeks. What’s striking about this crisis is the speed with which things change. A week ago we were reeling from the news that our children’s school had closed. Under the latest decree, all shops must shut apart from pharmacies and supermarkets. I should have got more of Roberto’s pecorino cheese — the best in Rome — while I still had the chance.
In some way it’s all beginning to feel a little Mussolini-like. A ban on all gatherings, including dinner parties. Police checking everyone who’s outside. Arrests for those who don’t have a good reason to be where they are and don’t have the right piece of paper. I’m struck by how easily people have adapted. It’s almost as if some part of them has been ready. Of course the authorities are right to do all of this. They have little choice. Last night the numbers of new cases seemed to be slowing a little, but tonight they leapt up again by 2,000 people to more than 12,000.
Part two to follow
They may do on and off for those at risk .I only quote peak as once we get out of that the restrictions will start to get lifted (as they have in China for example) eradication will take much much longer than that, you cant surely believe that we will have these restrictions in place until eradication....
Not sure that stands up either given a ski resort in Austria has been identified as the entry point of the virus into Europe so cold doesn’t seem to be killing it and hot countries in the middle of their summer (in the 30’s in Saudi Arabia at the moment) are having issues with it. Even many areas of Spain were enjoying a heatwave until very recently with Costa Blanca especially seeing temperatures in the mid 20’s for a good few weeks.But surely if the outside temperature is above 12c, it will help kill off the virus on surfaces etc?
Cases at that time12000?
They may do on and off for those at risk .
The article seems to be describing exactly the way the UK is trying to handle it
There was an interesting article in the Sunday Times yesterday of an expat's experience in Rome as things escalated
See below
Looks like we are following the same path
Coronavirus in Italy: for once, peace reigns in anarchic Rome. We’ve learnt to love the lockdown
It was hard weaning people off their sociability, but Romans have responded to the new reality, writes the novelist Matthew Kneale
The Pantheon has few visitors
Matthew Kneale
Sunday March 22 2020, 12.01am, The Sunday Times
Share
Save
Tuesday, March 10
I have a sensitivity, even slight paranoia, concerning plagues. Perhaps it’s because I owe my existence to one. In 1918, my grandfather, who was a theatre and opera critic in Berlin, married for the first time. He was 51 and his bride was 19 (I make no comment). Within months she was pregnant and a few months later she was dead. The Spanish flu, in mirror image to Covid-19, spared the old and was most dangerous for those in young adulthood, and especially to pregnant women. Two years later, my grandfather married again, to one of the bridesmaids of his first wedding, also 19 (again I make no comment) — my grandmother.
Any news of alarming new diseases catches my sense of danger. Many of our friends found it very amusing when, during the 2003 Sars epidemic, they saw my stock of pasta, cheese and long-life milk. They were right — Italy had only four Sars cases and no deaths. We never did drink the long-life milk.
This time, the government was absolutely right to bring in a lockdown. Something is being done, and there’s a palpable sense of relief that we know where we are. The Romans, who I’ve always viewed as being amiably anarchic, seem to be getting quite into it all, rather to my surprise.
As my son, Alexander, needed to get out of the house, we went to a bakery and cafe. It was very quiet and the cash girl had put flower pots in front of the till desk so you couldn’t stand near her when you paid, with black tape on the floor to make it even clearer. Empty cups were collected by a man wearing rubber gloves. They had an air of busy correctness, a pride, too, for doing their part against the virus.
When Alexander and I got back from our coffees, Cinzia, our portiere, gave me the latest news. She’s a very Roman presence in all the best ways: warm, extremely loud and possessed of a strong and tough sense of humour. She told me — shouting through the glass of her cubicle — that there was insanity at all the supermarkets: huge queues and people being let in two at a time. They’ll all have given each other the virus in the crowds. I’ll shop in a day or two when they’ll be quiet again.
Alexander and Tatiana, my daughter, are in pretty good spirits. Their school’s online lessons are coming together, and they can enjoy seeing their teachers look foolish as they try to cope with the tech.
Wednesday, March 11
Alexander and I took a stroll round the boundaries of our new, more limited world. Except for work, we have to stay in our postal code area, 00153 Roma. It includes Trastevere, where we live, the Aventino area and Testaccio, which has the best food market in Rome. This was very quiet today but still functioning — with new arrangements. When I started to pick some oranges, the stallholder told me, in a friendly enough way, that these could only be touched with gloves. As I had none, she chose them for me.
We can still walk up the Gianicolo hill to Villa Sciarra park and the huge fountain, where the Acqua Paola aqueduct arrives in the city, and to Porta Settimiana in the old city wall. But no further. Our Rome has shrunk. The Pantheon, Piazza Navona and the Campo de’ Fiori, which I used to stroll through almost daily, are now off limits.
Very quiet but functioning: Testaccio has the city’s best food market
MATTHEW KNEALE
Even within our postal code area, going out is discouraged. I heard tonight that the police arrested 161 people today for not having a good reason to be where they were. In the past couple of days, however, our main concern has not been how to escape this narrowing world but rather how to get into it. Last Friday, when all seemed so different, my wife, Shannon, flew to Canada to visit her parents — a trip arranged months ago. Yesterday evening she rang, very upset, as she’d just heard that her flight back, booked for next Sunday, had been cancelled. Ryanair, easyJet and BA had ended all their flights to Italy and she wondered if she’d ever be able to get home. After some fretting, she bought a ticket via Frankfurt. Even then the airline staff couldn’t guarantee that the Frankfurt-Rome flight would fly. After a stressful wait in the airport, watching flight after flight cancelled, she got home early this evening.
Concerned that I should have a good meal ready for her, I went out shopping. There’s nothing like a dose of plague to change one’s sense of space. As I walked along the pavements, I found myself stepping away from people coming towards me, and they did the same. This new virus dance is more awkward in supermarkets where every inch of space is filled. In a smallish grocery shop we often go to, I found myself awkwardly stepping by someone as we were edged close together by a huge bank of Easter eggs. The queue, which is normally a tightly packed scrum, had a strangely spread-out look. Pieces of tape had been laid out on the ground marked “1 metre” to separate the queuers from one another. Staff at the tills were guarded from customers’ breath by Perspex shields.
I also visited our delicatessen, a local legend run by Roberto and his wife, Anna. They told me that, regretfully, they were going to close for at least a couple of weeks. Operating in the virus lockdown was too hard. I suspect it will be a lot longer than two weeks. What’s striking about this crisis is the speed with which things change. A week ago we were reeling from the news that our children’s school had closed. Under the latest decree, all shops must shut apart from pharmacies and supermarkets. I should have got more of Roberto’s pecorino cheese — the best in Rome — while I still had the chance.
In some way it’s all beginning to feel a little Mussolini-like. A ban on all gatherings, including dinner parties. Police checking everyone who’s outside. Arrests for those who don’t have a good reason to be where they are and don’t have the right piece of paper. I’m struck by how easily people have adapted. It’s almost as if some part of them has been ready. Of course the authorities are right to do all of this. They have little choice. Last night the numbers of new cases seemed to be slowing a little, but tonight they leapt up again by 2,000 people to more than 12,000.
Part two to follow
People flying back into HK from overseas, thats all it took.
Yep ,That's my point (not eloquently put) I'm very very lucky in that I'm not in an at risk group but logic would dictate that if we carry on as we are, the restrictions would be lifted within 12 weeks for the people who are not classed as at risk, hence why talking about 6 months time annoyed me so much as it's just not logically correct based on the facts, I think the isolation is getting to me
As I am in Saudi Arabia i can offer some first hand experience. Firstly social distancing is the norm here al the time and there is a country wide curfew from 7pm to 6am and a lockdown of all non essential industries. There are 561 reported cases which a daily increase of 10% it seems.Not sure that stands up either given a ski resort in Austria has been identified as the entry point of the virus into Europe so cold doesn’t seem to be killing it and hot countries in the middle of their summer (in the 30’s in Saudi Arabia at the moment) are having issues with it. Even many areas of Spain were enjoying a heatwave until very recently with Costa Blanca especially seeing temperatures in the mid 20’s for a good few weeks.
You get what you pay for. We elected an after dinner speaker for prime minister. And that was what we got.
But when you buy cheap, the real cost always reveals itself. There's a proper crisis now, the kind with a severe toll in human life, social change and emotional demand. And we've got Boris Johnson as prime minister.
He seemed frankly quite bored at Thursday's covid press conference. "I don't propose to spend a very long time at this particular one," he told reporters. "I don't want to weary you with these occasions." But that's not what he meant. What he meant was that he couldn't be bothered. He was tired of them.
It's just not very jolly and upbeat. It doesn't play to his strengths. He can't make a gag, or get away with pretending things will be simple, because the bleak and terrible reality of what is happening is apparent to everyone. He can't use it for personal advantage.
So instead, in his boredom, and in his assumption that people would feel the same way, he started to introduce arbitrary timetables. This should all be over with in 12 weeks, he decided. "I'm absolutely confident that we can send coronavirus packing," he said.
Except that's not right. The Imperial report showed this is going to be with us for a very long time, until we find a vaccine, which will probably be at least 18 months. There will be times that the anti-covid measures are relaxed, but when they are, the cases will creep up again, and they will have to be re-introduced. We will, in all likelihood, go through blocks of isolation, then have short periods of relaxation of the rules, then isolate again. This is long term.
No-one likes the idea of that. It is almost beyond comprehension. After what for most of us has been just a week or so at home, it's already starting to grate. It's particularly difficult for those with young children, and those who struggle with anxiety when deprived of social contact.
And it's going to get worse. Looking at our relative progress next to countries like Italy and France, we seem to be on the same course as them. We will probably also see the police cars with loudspeakers telling us to stay in our homes. Things will get scary.
You can understand that people will need some reassurance that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. But fake timetables are a fake certainty. They are the 'Get Brexit Done' of covid. They will dispel public trust in government messages once people realise they are not true.
They are also potentially a public health problem. One of the greatest dangers is that we face a second pulverising wave of infections once the controls are relaxed. And that is much more likely if you have a prime minister suggesting to everyone that "we'll get this thing done" in a few weeks.
It could have been worse. Johnson shares qualities with Donald Trump, but he is not quite Britain's Trump. He has not renamed coronavirus the "Chinese" virus and explicitly tried to manipulate it to a racist narrative.
But it could have also been very much better. France has not exactly covered itself in glory in its handling of covid before this week. But even there, Emmanuel Macron's speech to the nation stood in contrast to Johnson's efforts. "We are at war," he said. "The enemy is there - invisible, elusive - and it is advancing." There was clarity in the severity of the situation.
There was also help, in the form of waived social-security payments, utility bills and rent, alongside loans, job protection and unemployment pay. "No business, no matter what its size, will risk failure," he said. "No Frenchwoman or Frenchman will be left without resources." Britain had to wait considerably longer for similar measures.
He was able to end with "vive la republique, vive la France". Even now, embroiled as he's been in national disputes, the French president still has access to a reserve of national solidarity.
But most of all there was a sense of professionalism, of focus. Macron is not perfect, In many senses he is a disappointment. But he is at least someone who is capable of seriousness. And that makes it easier, in times of crisis and severe uncertainty, to follow a message and to have some degree of confidence in what is taking place in government.
We do not have that luxury. And that is not a coincidence. It is not bad luck. It is because of our choices. We elected a prime minister who does not speak in plain terms, but in winks and innuendo. A prime minister who is incapable of telling the truth. We elected a prime minister who is slow to assess political situations in any manner that does not reflect his own capacity for personal advantage. And we elected one who dealt in easy tribalism and traded in culture war to achieve victory.
So that's what we've got. The chat show guest. The after-dinner speaker. The cynical tribalist. The nation is on the operating table and he comes in at midnight, in black tie with the shirt untucked, half cut, and absentmindedly grabs a scalpel.
There's no getting rid of him in the short term. The most we can pray for is that he shows the foresight and responsibility - or perhaps the sense of political calculation - of perhaps forming a government of national unity, or a wise-heads council of former prime ministers, to oversee this thing. But that too is highly unlikely. We've got what we've got. And now we're going to have to live with it, at the worst possible time.
Smell and taste according to ENT story yesterday where two professionals became infectedI wouldn't necessarily believe any of this stuff, just focus on looking after yourself & your family and doing the right thing. I also don't think people are making things up, but the virus is mutating- they are now saying that loss of sense of smell is reported in 60%+ of all positive tests- but its moving so fast, mutating & there is so much info I would be inclined to just worry about what you can control- stay safe and stay inside as much as you can.
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