Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (70 Viewers)

[tisza]

I think one reason the numbers are holding up may be due to a segment of the population acting on their own initiative ahead of official advice.
This was coming down the tracks liike train from mid January.
Of course that may have been negated by the folk who initially ignored recommendations.

we've got 2 reasons why our numbers are probably low here.
1. Didn't have any testing kits until China sent some this week !!
2. Major cities and towns here people did follow Govt advice and people have been staying home. Non-essential shops can still open here until 3 o'clock - just nobody in them. Some have just closed for financial reasons.

 

---

[Astute]

And by the same token, could Italy and Spain have had it worse because they are a bit more huggy/kiss on the cheek types for greetings?

How about France?

When my lad started school there he refused to do their traditional greeting. 'I'm not kissing my teacher twice all the time' he said. They were astonished when they found out teachers in the UK don't greet their pupils with a kiss on both cheeks.....

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Because hes a

Because he's a racist twat who hates this country.

Coventrian and Grendel, a very well suited tag team

 

[tisza]

 

[Jcap]

Yes the tubes and bars are crowded - especially the bars in the underground - actual lack of physical contact may be more significant than we thought. Latin America (so I assume Spain as well) is the opposite - men and women invade your space and are always hugging and embracing

News coming out today not so positive though. They are now fearing a second wave.

 

[tisza]

How about France?

When my lad started school there he refused to do their traditional greeting. 'I'm not kissing my teacher twice all the time' he said. They were astonished when they found out teachers in the UK don't greet their pupils with a kiss on both cheeks.....

Here kissing on both cheeks close friends the norm - male and female.
Handshaking with everyone - had one worker used to shake my hand everytime he saw during the day 6/7 times a day.
Anyone you have any sort of relationship with - personal or work - you are expected to greet this way when you meet and when you leave.

 

[shmmeee]

I agree.
Look at San Marino and Andorra. The per capita still impacts on the community but there would be a bigger impact on London of course. The London rate is probably going to have a steep climb. I will be more concerned about London hitting San Marino figures although the population may have similar concentration of people.

Hitting is the key word. Once all this is over per cap stats will be useful but in terms of seeing where each country is in the initial stages of an outbreak and how well they’re controlling spread absolute numbers are best.

 

[Astute]

Seeing as you’re not being xenophobic with that I will honour you with an answer. I don’t remember that but maybe you’re right. But having now studied and modelled all of the various schemes, it is a fact that they are not what they appear to be. By a long stretch. And like I said before, they’re rushing this through in 3 weeks when it would normally take a year, so it’s not a complete pop at them, but this is not the “assistance” people think it is.

It is constant Boris attacks.

And those who do the constant Boris attacks will not say how earlier they would have done lockdown. Because then you would have to consider what would have been in place financially for those affected. Also you would have had hardly any cases for the NHS whilst we would have gone into financial meltdown.

Then you get some who make up the rules on how we should be compared to other countries. They must be right....

To me the most telling is how the other political parties have hardly had a go at the Tories. What surprised me the most is how the expats that have been affected the most by Brexit actually praise the way the situation has been handled in the UK.

 

[Astute]

The same can also be said for some of our diverse groups in Coventry. If nothing else I now realise a lot of people don’t know what 2 metres is. Interesting that the Dutch are advised to stay 1.5 metres away from each other.

Especially when BBQ's are involved.

 

[MalcSB]

i think this is right. The official advice was so bad and the evidence from elsewhere so stark, a lot of people took it upon themselves to do the right thing. There was even uproar when football stopped before any kind of government info was rolled out, but they sure got it right.

They really should have cancelled Cheltenham races.

 

[Astute]

Hitting is the key word. Once all this is over per cap stats will be useful but in terms of seeing where each country is in the initial stages of an outbreak and how well they’re controlling spread absolute numbers are best.

So there shouldn't be any difference between a small country that has 10,000 cases of infection against a large country that has 20,000 cases of infection?

Of course 'per capita' shows how well any country is coping. The higher the percentage of infection the less chance there is of them coping.

 

[cc84cov]

Russian war ships being shadowed by the Navy after unusual levels of activity in the Chanel & North Sea

 

[Astute]

Here kissing on both cheeks close friends the norm - male and female.
Handshaking with everyone - had one worker used to shake my hand everytime he saw during the day 6/7 times a day.
Anyone you have any sort of relationship with - personal or work - you are expected to greet this way when you meet and when you leave.

When his teachers found out they were happy just to shake his hand.

Can you imagine if a teacher tried to kiss every child at a school in the UK? Their first day would be their last.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It is constant Boris attacks.

And those who do the constant Boris attacks will not say how earlier they would have done lockdown. Because then you would have to consider what would have been in place financially for those affected. Also you would have had hardly any cases for the NHS whilst we would have gone into financial meltdown.

Then you get some who make up the rules on how we should be compared to other countries. They must be right....

To me the most telling is how the other political parties have hardly had a go at the Tories. What surprised me the most is how the expats that have been affected the most by Brexit actually praise the way the situation has been handled in the UK.

I know, who would have thought it- people badly cock up and other people call them out for it. Disgraceful.

Flippancy apart, there is no possible way to defend the herd immunity fiasco. You just can't. You also can't deny that the lack of resources was a disgrace- although to be balanced nobody knew that a pandemic was on the way.

But its wrong to say that people who made catastrophic mistakes should be given a free pass. Had it been Corbyn or any of the others then they also would have had to face the consequences of their actions.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Russian war ships being shadowed by the Navy after unusual levels of activity in the Chanel & North Sea

They're probably delivering caviar & vodka to Boris & Cummings.

 

[clint van damme]

It is constant Boris attacks.

And those who do the constant Boris attacks will not say how earlier they would have done lockdown. Because then you would have to consider what would have been in place financially for those affected. Also you would have had hardly any cases for the NHS whilst we would have gone into financial meltdown.

Then you get some who make up the rules on how we should be compared to other countries. They must be right....

To me the most telling is how the other political parties have hardly had a go at the Tories. What surprised me the most is how the expats that have been affected the most by Brexit actually praise the way the situation has been handled in the UK.

I've actually given Boris some praise, though mixed in with criticism which I think is valid.
What I'm not letting go of is how under prepared we are and how 10 years of Tory government has left us more vulnerable than we should be in this situation.

People saying now isn't the time, well I'm sorry, now is deci itely the time,If for no other reason than to spur them into action.
We have 6 ICU beds per 100,000 to Germany's 29.
We have ICU staff without PPE or been asked to share PPE.
We have a shortage of ventilators even though the government were warned in 2016.

It's not good enough.

 

[clint van damme]

When his teachers found out they were happy just to shake his hand.

Can you imagine if a teacher tried to kiss every child at a school in the UK? Their first day would be their last.

We had teachers who did that, tongues as well!

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I've actually given Boris some praise, though mixed in with criticism which I think is valid.
What I'm not letting go of is how under prepared we are and how 10 years of Tory government has left us more vulnerable than we should be in this situation.

People saying now isn't the time, well I'm sorry, now is deci itely the time,If for no other reason than to spur them into action.
We have 6 ICU beds per 100,000 to Germany's 29.
We have ICU staff without PPE or been asked to share PPE.
We have a shortage of ventilators even though the government were warned in 2016.

It's not good enough.

It is noticable that the narrative is already being prepared- "now isn't the time for talking about this".

 

[clint van damme]

It is noticable that the narrative is already being prepared- "now isn't the time for talking about this".

It's been obvious from the start.
The British public should not let go of this until we know if it's ever repeated the health service has what it need

 

[Astute]

I know, who would have thought it- people badly cock up and other people call them out for it. Disgraceful.

Flippancy apart, there is no possible way to defend the herd immunity fiasco. You just can't. You also can't deny that the lack of resources was a disgrace- although to be balanced nobody knew that a pandemic was on the way.

But its wrong to say that people who made catastrophic mistakes should be given a free pass. Had it been Corbyn or any of the others then they also would have had to face the consequences of their actions.

I haven't denied anything.

So what have they done wrong? What should they have done instead? If it was lockdown earlier then hiw much earlier should it have been? Were they wrong to advise on social distancing whilst putting financial plans together? Or should they have just shut the UK and left everyone in the shite?

It is easy to say what they have done wrong. But those who keep saying that they have done it wrong never come out with a plan that covers financial matters.

 

[Otis]

The same can also be said for some of our diverse groups in Coventry. If nothing else I now realise a lot of people don’t know what 2 metres is. Interesting that the Dutch are advised to stay 1.5 metres away from each other.

Is that so they can light each other's reefers?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What I'm not letting go of is how under prepared we are and how 10 years of Tory government has left us more vulnerable than we should be in this situation.

Yep, that's the bit I do think is fair to point out. Of course some of us have been saying this for years too.

What I am worried about is that afterwards. NHS funding will be increased at the expense of so-called non-essential services. We really, really need to start to learn that you get what you pay for, and accept that might mean paying a bit more tax to improve all of our standards of living.

 

[wingy]

Is that so they can light each other's reefers?

Top form!!

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I haven't denied anything.

So what have they done wrong? What should they have done instead? If it was lockdown earlier then hiw much earlier should it have been? Were they wrong to advise on social distancing whilst putting financial plans together? Or should they have just shut the UK and left everyone in the shite?

It is easy to say what they have done wrong. But those who keep saying that they have done it wrong never come out with a plan that covers financial matters.

Part of that is there seems to be a clear line between those who are only focussing on the human aspect, and those who prioritise the financial/ economic aspect. Trump is clearly at one end of that spectrum... To nail my colours to the mast, I'm on the human aspect side of things- and even though I know it won't happen, would love to see the 'humanists' win out, whatever the cost, and then there be a rethink of the way society operates in general, because as long as we have systems that promote inequality and accumulation of wealth as the ultimate life goal, we will never, ever be prepared for anything like this. Society is already designed to kill people enough as it is, without a lethal pandemic coming along and helping push that along. Wishful thinking, but its what should happen.

As for lockdown- my beef was always with the flawed & subsequently disproved science around herd immunity which wasted so much time, compounded by the wishy washy communication- the very second we realised what was about to hit us we should have taken serious action and protected people, instead of pissing around.

 

[Astute]

Part of that is there seems to be a clear line between those who are only focussing on the human aspect, and those who prioritise the financial/ economic aspect. Trump is clearly at one end of that spectrum... To nail my colours to the mast, I'm on the human aspect side of things- and even though I know it won't happen, would love to see the 'humanists' win out, whatever the cost, and then there be a rethink of the way society operates in general, because as long as we have systems that promote inequality and accumulation of wealth as the ultimate life goal, we will never, ever be prepared for anything like this. Society is already designed to kill people enough as it is, without a lethal pandemic coming along and helping push that along. Wishful thinking, but its what should happen.

As for lockdown- my beef was always with the flawed & subsequently disproved science around herd immunity which wasted so much time, compounded by the wishy washy communication- the very second we realised what was about to hit us we should have taken serious action and protected people, instead of pissing around.

So as I keep asking......what should we have done differently.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yep, that's the bit I do think is fair to point out. Of course some of us have been saying this for years too.

What I am worried about is that afterwards. NHS funding will be increased at the expense of so-called non-essential services. We really, really need to start to learn that you get what you pay for, and accept that might mean paying a bit more tax to improve all of our standards of living.

Over here all private hospitals are now public hospitals. No doubt some people are complaining that there was no point paying premiums (in private at least, and I'm not one of them!), however its amazing how at a time of worldwide crisis 'socialist'-type principles are having to bail out 'capitalist'-type principles.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

So as I keep asking......what should we have done differently.

Ah come on- don't start that stuff, you are not a stupid man.

We should not have pursued herd immunity as our primary goal. We should not have taken a scientific approach to peoples' lives and had the PM on TV talking about us "taking it on the chin and letting this thing run through the country" when we already knew that thousands were going to die. We should have listened to the WHO and seen what was happening in other countries instead of listening to a charlatan who has since been proved to be extremely wrong. We should have communicated clearly as opposed to not really saying anything at all of any substance. We should not have had the Health Minister on TV directly contradicting the advice given by the "scientific advisor" previously. We should have closed up at least a week before we did as we knew what was coming our way, and we should not have allowed the situation of supermarkets looking like a Royal Rumble to get hold of some bog roll. This could go on all day, you know it and I know it- not about politics, its about people making huge mistakes that have demonstrably put lives in danger.

 

[chiefdave]

It is noticable that the narrative is already being prepared- "now isn't the time for talking about this".

Which raises the question when is? Its quite funny seeing people who think we shouldn't ask questions of the government and 'pull together like we did in the war'. Have they forgotten that Chamberlain had to resign?

What we shouldn't have is cheap shots and point scoring, but then we need to address that issue when we're not in crisis as well, but there's no reason questions should stop being asked.

For example on the radio this morning it was being questioned why the government have turned down opportunities to acquire respirators from existing manufacturers and have instead ordered them off JCB and Dyson who coincidentally are both Conservative party donors. Now that might all be above board and easily explained but its a question that needs to be raised and answer as taking it at face value it doesn't look good.

 

[David O'Day]

I've actually given Boris some praise, though mixed in with criticism which I think is valid.
What I'm not letting go of is how under prepared we are and how 10 years of Tory government has left us more vulnerable than we should be in this situation.

People saying now isn't the time, well I'm sorry, now is deci itely the time,If for no other reason than to spur them into action.
We have 6 ICU beds per 100,000 to Germany's 29.
We have ICU staff without PPE or been asked to share PPE.
We have a shortage of ventilators even though the government were warned in 2016.

It's not good enough.

This

His pandemic actions have been guided by science but the austerity of the last decade has left in a state where we will hopefully barely scrape through.

Tory cu ts

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I do, objectively, find the social science genuinely fascinating to see people demanding they're effectively placed under house arrest, with great powers granted to government ahead of its people.

If we're in this state for too long, I might write about it properly

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Which raises the question when is? Its quite funny seeing people who think we shouldn't ask questions of the government and 'pull together like we did in the war'. Have they forgotten that Chamberlain had to resign?

What we shouldn't have is cheap shots and point scoring, but then we need to address that issue when we're not in crisis as well, but there's no reason questions should stop being asked.

For example on the radio this morning it was being questioned why the government have turned down opportunities to acquire respirators from existing manufacturers and have instead ordered them off JCB and Dyson who coincidentally are both Conservative party donors. Now that might all be above board and easily explained but its a question that needs to be raised and answer as taking it at face value it doesn't look good.

You are spot on. I find myself in the position of questioning the Conservatives all the time when in fact I am not Tory or labour and dislike them both- but the fact is that the Conservatives are the ones who made the mistakes so its them who get the questions.

As for when, there will never be a when. The spin machine is probably already in overdrive about how Boris became Winston Churhchill and galvanised the nation to beat the Coronavirus. He'll never be put under scrutiny.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I do, objectively, find the social science genuinely fascinating to see people demanding they're effectively placed under house arrest, with great powers granted to government ahead of its people.

If we're in this state for too long, I might write about it properly

Like I said- the mother of all conspiracy theories is right here. When you have the people asking to be controlled through fear, you have absolute power.

But Trump kind of goes against that, maybe he's just too stupid to play ball

 

[MalcSB]

This

His pandemic actions have been guided by science but the austerity of the last decade has left in a state where we will hopefully barely scrape through.

Tory cu ts

Didn’t the decade of austerity follow the banks fiasco and Labour famously leaving the note on leaving office saying not to bother looking for the money - there isn’t any?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Didn’t the decade of austerity follow the banks fiasco and Labour famously leaving the note on leaving office saying not to bother looking for the money - there isn’t any?

I read about that, is it actually true that they left a note, or is that urban legend?

 

[djr8369]

Over here all private hospitals are now public hospitals. No doubt some people are complaining that there was no point paying premiums (in private at least, and I'm not one of them!), however its amazing how at a time of worldwide crisis 'socialist'-type principles are having to bail out 'capitalist'-type principles.

You would hope this thing causes socialist principles to stay in effect where they are useful but I'm sure the various think tanks will be going full throttle for disaster capitalism.