D
Deleted member 9744
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How many times do we have to say Covid is not flu for people to get it?
Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (212 Viewers)
- Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
- Start date
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s the very definition of false equivalence. It’s like comparing a paper cut to limb amputation.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
True but it can still kill tens of thousands a year and is transmissible.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Flu in the UK kills more a year than covid has in many countries .. the reason our covid deaths are so ridiculously high is mostly to do with government mismanagement of the whole pandemic
What I'm getting at its not really a papercut in most countries .
Germany for example can see upto 30,000 deaths a year with flu and that's with years of vaccines .
Covid has killed 95 ,000 or so in 18 months and over half that time no vaccine .
Yes covid is worse , but let's not try and make flu out to be nothing
Flu can kill upto 500,000 a year worldwide (with vaccines ) and make 3-5 million severely ill
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
How often does the flu bring the NHS to its knees?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Not in our lifetime , it has been devastating to the globe in the past .
We have vaccines now for flu , every year , like these planned covid boosters for the over 50s or vulnerable
Like flu we will get ontop of this virus eventually and it won't bring the NHS to its knees will it
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Genuinely can’t believe people are still talking about the fucking flu 18 months into this
Why ? He said flu was like a papercut in comparison , but 1 flu virus killed 25-50 million people ... flu isn't just a papercut was the point .. it's a virus that kills hundreds of thousands every year ... was all
Flu still does this despite years of scientific work and vaccines
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That’s just a measure of the government’s failure. If you want to compare one death rate to another you can only compare them in the same country. It’s irrelevant to compare flu deaths in the UK to Covid deaths in New Zealand. When you’re talking about influenza deaths worldwide you’re also talking about all current worldwide influenza strains not just seasonal flu that traditional is the biggest issue in the UK. It’s false equivalence again.Flu in the UK kills more a year than covid has in many countries .. the reason our covid deaths are so ridiculously high is mostly to do with government mismanagement of the whole pandemic
What I'm getting at its not really a papercut in most countries .
Germany for example can see upto 30,000 deaths a year with flu and that's with years of vaccines .
Covid has killed 95 ,000 or so in 18 months and over half that time no vaccine .
Yes covid is worse , but let's not try and make flu out to be nothing
Flu can kill upto 500,000 a year worldwide (with vaccines ) and make 3-5 million severely ill
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Bottom line is , flu kills hundreds of thousands every year , with vaccines .
Covid is still new , still being studied and eventually we will be at a point where much like flu , it isn't killing millions every year .. true ?
Covid will eventually be a papercut too
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
Covid has killed 134,000 in the UK in 18 months.Flu in the UK kills more a year than covid has in many countries .. the reason our covid deaths are so ridiculously high is mostly to do with government mismanagement of the whole pandemic
What I'm getting at its not really a papercut in most countries .
Germany for example can see upto 30,000 deaths a year with flu and that's with years of vaccines .
Covid has killed 95 ,000 or so in 18 months and over half that time no vaccine .
Yes covid is worse , but let's not try and make flu out to be nothing
Flu can kill upto 500,000 a year worldwide (with vaccines ) and make 3-5 million severely ill
Yes flu can be fatal but the transmission rate and death rate is substantial lower than covid.
Of course flu kills more people here than Covid in some countries, but that proves nothing. Countries have different populations.
Trump started this nonsense, but covid is not flu.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I wasn't arguing that covid was flu though
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Tbf the NHS is in crisis for a quarter of the year. No just flu but all seasonal respiratory illness and other illness and injury associated with the cold weather.
The answer is spending significantly more money on the NHS, adult social care and otherwise on improving the standard of living for many, including pensioners who then might be in better general health.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It's things like this worry me, at the very moment the opposite happens.
Covid: Plan B would be triggered by NHS pressure, Sajid Javid says
Government scientists are warning of a jump in Covid hospital admissions if rules are not tightened soon.
www.bbc.co.uk
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
They’ve learned the sum total of fuck all over the last 18+ months
You can only catch it of strangers.
You can only catch it of strangers.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s a respiratory condition that can kill 30,000 a year and a vaccine is available so same principle applies
Grendel
Well-Known Member
nor was I and clearly without vaccines flu would be more deadly
Grendel
Well-Known Member
you’ve totally missed the point
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
True....but being a pedant, we are also exposed to & live with several other coronaviruses......we've just got a particularlly nasty one circulating at present...its only killing so many as its novel......
hill83
Well-Known Member
That was my point really. To compare deaths from the flu with Covid doesn’t really work. As Covid is one terrible thing.
I understand that’s not what everyone was doing. Just sick of hearing about the flu. It’s similar but almost irrelevant.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Its not as the argument to vaccinate people is to stop health service being overwhelmed - but they often have been. Flu vaccines vary with effectiveness but having it will give less chance of occupation of a hospital bed
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
When was the last time we had to lock everyone in their homes because of flu?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
When flu numbers shot up one year due to H1N1 (2009?) didn't we do exactly that? Not the same as lockdown now as it wasn't the same number of people but I remember getting something (certain it wasn't flu) around that time and you weren't even allowed to go to the doctors, they literally delivered medication and left it outside your door with instructions to stay inside for 2 weeks.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
1918......well....we wouldv'e done if we had a NHS to protect....
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
1919-ish?
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
No. We've never had a similar response as a wider public.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The covid plan was adapted from the government's flu pandemic plan. It could happen.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread on vaccine waning
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Had a visit to the hospital yesterday to see a senior respiratory consultant after over 2 years of waiting. Asked about covid and if particular if I was wrong to be feeling anixious when everyone else seems to be acting like nothing ever happened. To be honest I was hoping for a 'if you're double jabbed there's little to worry about' type answer for re-assurance but I got nothing like that. Wasn't sure if I should post what she said but figured I might as well in case anyone is interested in an experts opinion.
Basically she said this is a long way from being over and people are too comfortable & complacent. Said it was best to look at hospitalisations & deaths rather than cases and both those figures are significantly higher than they were heading into last winter and rising.
Said the 'in the wild' data indicates that vaccination does lower the chance of getting covid and the risk of passing it on if you do have it but people have focused on a single study which shows that in lab conditions, where nose swabs were taken, there could be the same viral load in the vaccinated and unvaccinated but even that showed that in the vaccinated the viral load dropped far quicker than in the unvaccinated.
Also said she hoped that vaccine passports and masks would be introduced, this was before the government announced the winter plan, to minimise hospitalisations without the need for another lockdown.
Finally said people are using terms like 'overwhelm the NHS' without understanding what they are talking about as they say levels aren't as high as last year and therefore the NHS can cope but that required shutting down everything that wasn't critical care to concentrate on covid. The levels of covid hospitalisations the NHS can cope with before other services are impacted is far lower and they're already, at least locally, very close to that level.
As I was leaving I asked specifically about attending matches. She said personally she wouldn't even consider going to an event with a large crowd of unmasked, and potentially unvaccinated, people.
Not exactly the reassurance I was looking for. On the bright side no cancer, no additional respiratory issues on top of what I already knew about, no issues with immune system, so onto another waiting list (12 months or longer thanks to the backlog) for another department and more tests.
Basically she said this is a long way from being over and people are too comfortable & complacent. Said it was best to look at hospitalisations & deaths rather than cases and both those figures are significantly higher than they were heading into last winter and rising.
Said the 'in the wild' data indicates that vaccination does lower the chance of getting covid and the risk of passing it on if you do have it but people have focused on a single study which shows that in lab conditions, where nose swabs were taken, there could be the same viral load in the vaccinated and unvaccinated but even that showed that in the vaccinated the viral load dropped far quicker than in the unvaccinated.
Also said she hoped that vaccine passports and masks would be introduced, this was before the government announced the winter plan, to minimise hospitalisations without the need for another lockdown.
Finally said people are using terms like 'overwhelm the NHS' without understanding what they are talking about as they say levels aren't as high as last year and therefore the NHS can cope but that required shutting down everything that wasn't critical care to concentrate on covid. The levels of covid hospitalisations the NHS can cope with before other services are impacted is far lower and they're already, at least locally, very close to that level.
As I was leaving I asked specifically about attending matches. She said personally she wouldn't even consider going to an event with a large crowd of unmasked, and potentially unvaccinated, people.
Not exactly the reassurance I was looking for. On the bright side no cancer, no additional respiratory issues on top of what I already knew about, no issues with immune system, so onto another waiting list (12 months or longer thanks to the backlog) for another department and more tests.
hill83
Well-Known Member
What does she know, she’s not on the ground floor directly at the coalface in Wetherspoons at 10am m8
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Really encouraging figures for those who are at least 3 weeks post 2nd jab. Out of 51,281 covid deaths this year, up to July 2, only 458 were people who had received 2 doses at least 21 days previously. And of them only 59 were not in the CEV category, that's just 0.1% of deaths.
Maybe Nick doesn't need to get all the fatties locked away after all
COV
Well-Known Member
Good news for you, sorry to hear about the waiting list though.
Its good to read some common sense on the topic 'from the horses mouth'.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not really, they are both viruses that can kill tens of thousands a year even with a vaccination programme. Plus for younger people they’re about equally as high in mortality