Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
It's his word, not mine. And I don't think that the Lucas 'profitability' issue has been proven so. I can copy and paste the clip from the other thread you ran away from if you wish?
Why have you put lies in inverted commas?
So you've seen both Wasps and CCFC's non-existent bid to purchase ACL with a 250 year lease, interesting to know. Care to tell the rest of us what both contain and on what basis Wasps would win?
And I too am struggling to see why you are affording the owners of our football club the grace to think they actually wanted to do a deal at any time. They didn't. Time and time again, they didn't.
Isn't defining what's for sale and at what price what negotiations are for? The point I'm making is that after that invite what offer did SISU actually make?
I don't believe I have actually said they did want to do a deal have I? Although saying that I think it would be somewhat ridiculous to assume, were the right deal available, they wouldn't have been interested.
What I have said is that there should have been a fair and open process based on factual statements not lies. That would be open to all, if CRFC wished to bid they could, if CCFC wished to bid they could, same for Wasps, Coventry United, AEG or anyone else. If that had happened, and happened from the start, we may well now be owners of the Ricoh and have never endured Sixfields, equally we may not but it would have been a process that stood up to scrutiny. The sale to Wasps certainly does not.
I think that's the point. SISU never made a bid until it was too late despite a public announcement that any serious bids will be considered. Unless you consider publicly stating that you've moved on and are building your own stadium an offer. Which I'm sure you don't.
Wait there. You're now saying that there should have been a fair and open process; but can't even say for certain if the football club even wanted to deal?
And what CCC lies? Define them please? The smoking gun from the JRs didn't manifest itself. So, define 'lies' please
Can you give me a link to the the statement from Lucas that ACL was being placed on the market for sale with a 200 year lease extension.
I'm saying there should have been a fair and open process without the Council and Higgs lying about the status of ACL. I would have expected the club to bid, I would also have expected the fans to be pressing the club to bid if it was known ACL was being sold.
Have you been in a coma the last two days? I suggest you look at the Telegraph or Observer websites or listen to Shane O'Connors interview with Lucas from this morning.
I don't think she placed conditions on it. She invited any serious offer. I guess Wasps serious offer included a 250 year lease. I'm not sure what SISU's serious offer included.
I don't think she placed conditions on it. She invited any serious offer. I guess Wasps serious offer included a 250 year lease. I'm not sure what SISU's serious offer included.
So, this reference to 'lies', you actually mean one issue that's come out in recent days and didn't influence the whole sale process at all as it's only seen the light of day post-conclusion? And whilst I'm on that issue, can you help Grendel with the point he couldn't address?
In signing off ACL's accounts without concern for the on-going health of the business; the auditors shared the same view as that of Lucas. The same view was espoused by the Judicial Review judge, who stated "The private investor in the shoes of the Council would have been properly entitled to take the view that ACL was capable of servicing a loan for £14.4m over 41 years, and the security was sufficient to make the risk of it failing to do so commercially worthwhile.” So, a judge, being in independent possession of all facts saw no issue with regards ACL's health for over 40 years.
So, were the auditors and the Judicial Review judge telling 'lies' too? Both saw ACL - being in possession of all facts - as the ongoing concern Lucas eluded to
There's more than one lie that's come to light in the last couple of days. I suggest you go back and read the thread from the beginning. I would suggest that by creating a false picture of how ACL was performing it very much impacted on the sale process. Although there wasn't really a process was there and thats the problem. There was a deal done in secret.
I have no idea what this has to do with what is being discussed. I would say they didn't, at no point have I seen it reported the accounts just released contained a statement from the auditors that those very accounts showed ACL making a profit, or performing better without CCFC, or that CCFC were only 10% of ACLs business in the previous year? As for the JR are you saying that the judge was provided with copies of the accounts that have just become public and was informed by the council that their public statements had been false? Again though I have no idea what any of that has to do with if the council has lied or not. They did, listen to Lucas this morning on CWR, even she admits it.
Lucas is being judged retrospectively.
Exactly, they did't say it was being sold. They also made repeated claims about the performance of ACL without the club which would lead you to believe they could quite happily sit on ACL until SISU moved on. Nobody seriously thought they were holding talks for 2 years with Wasps, they seemed to miss that detail out everytime they spoke about ACL and the Ricoh.
So we are now ignoring anything that happened in the past. Anything that SISU did under Ranson and Delieu's leadership is off limits, any of Fishers previous statements can no longer be mentioned? Or is it just when CCC are found out that this applies?
I think publicly stating they'd listen to any serious offer is good indicator that it was for sale, at least for the right offer. I don't know what else they could have done? Listed it on eBay maybe? I don't know.
SISU have repeated claims that they've moved on and are building their own stadium, are we to let that to lead us to believe it will happen. The whole saga has been one big game of poker.
This it started 2 years ago thing. I've heard it a few times on here but hasn't it always been quickly dismissed as the money men who made the ACL takeover possible weren't on the scene 2 years ago?
I said nothing like that. I am saying that a Judicial Review judge made a comment on ACL's health moving forwards and gave you the quote. I have raised the question with regards the signed accounts. I have asked why Lucas is judged a liar when her judgement is proven retrospectively wrong, but the judge, with the same information making a similar prognosis isn't?!? It really is quite a simple question, without need of comparisons
What were they doing then?Thread not important. Most of us know sisu had as much intention of buying Ricoh as they were building a new stadium. zero
What were they doing then?
Everyone else is saying Lucas lied and it is clear to everyone else that she did.
Not exactly.
I think she lied. But we don't know for sure what information she was given. It might have even had a plus balance sheet for the year but made a loss. IIRC the money for the contracts at the arena were split between the years. So on the balance sheet would have looked like a profit when making a loss. It is the same with SISU. We know that the lies are flying about. But are they from Joy, Fisher, the pair of them or are they being mislead or given wrong information? We don't know for sure but it just seems that way.
It has been stated by Wasps themselves that the first started talking with CCC about the Ricoh two years ago.
Would be interested to see the source?
SISU had previously agreed with the Council to a 125 year lease.
Would be interested to see the source?
It looks to me as though they would have prefered to pay 7m in legal fees to get it for nothing than to pay 6m for it.
Nick Eastwood at a fans forum. Did Wasps PR company not brief you on that?
No he didn't. And think logically for a moment, if this deal was being discussed two years ago, why did it take so long to close. Makes no sense.
So they weren't discussing a merger with CRFC 2 years ago?
So they weren't discussing a merger with CRFC 2 years ago?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?