Council admits Ricoh Arena was not sustainable without CCFC (8 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Jan 15, 2015

Godiva said:
Does it not make you just a tiny bit curious as to how little money actually change hands in the deal?
(We don't even know if Wasps have paid cash for the shares. I would usually assume they did, but I won't be surprised if they got some sort of a payment plan).

Why isn't the loan paid out? Surely the council would have insisted the loan be paid out immediately? If not to avoid the coupling between loaning £14m to a hedge fund while not having money to avoid huge cuts on public service, then at least to avoid the risk of ACL going bankrupt in the future and have to write off the remaining part of the loan.

But cash flow aside - Bringing the club back adds value to the deal. What would the price be had the club stayed away?

According to Grendull they paid too much as he's stated today that ACL really was worthless so SISU were right in there valuation. I think it was his way of congratulating CCC on getting so much for it.

Anyway, how much value do I think CCFC's return added to the deal? Well 2 years rent is somewhere between £200k and £300k and 4 years is somewhere between £400k and £600k seems to be the general consensus so it ain't going to be anymore than that if anything at all. What ever the 4 years is worth to ACL is going to be diluted many many times over 250 years so that struggle to see where the value is.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 15, 2015

SimonGilbert said:
I'm not saying it was right or wrong to sell to Wasps by the way. There are clearly many arguments for and against.

You must have an opinion, even journalists are allowed an opinion

Samo · Jan 15, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
You must have an opinion, even journalists are allowed an opinion

I bet he doesnt , they aren't allowed!

skybluetony176 · Jan 15, 2015

Godiva said:
See my response to Tony - cash flow might(!) have been a deal breaker.

But you said my post was inaccurate - I would have hoped you offered some facts, not opinions.

Ahhh. You want facts to counter you're opinion

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 15, 2015

singers_pore said:
The Wasps thing won't last. Coventry has never been a rugger city and I don't think it will be long before crowds are down to around 7000 (excluding freebies). And there is little money to be made these days from conferences and concerts. I reckon Wasps will have major financial problems within the next 5 years. They won't be here for 250 years IMHO. Basically the Ricoh now has two sporting clubs that are both financially unviable. Their joint losses could probably be reduced thru a merger but I don't think the combined entity could run at a profit which means that a merger is unlikely.

I think our only chance of sporting success is to get some benefactor who is willing to burn money, like the owner of Leicester. No sane person would ever invest in a football club in order to turn a profit.

We're all dead, Dave.

Nick · Jan 15, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Ahhh. You want facts to counter you're opinion

Isn't that how it works if people say you are wrong rather than they disagree?

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 15, 2015

lordsummerisle said:
There are a few that could have been called very pro-CCC/Higgs over the whole saga, such as Chiefdave, Duffer, James Smith, who(though always well argued) were very vociferous in their defence.

Since the whole Wasps saga has come about they've come to the realisation that all wasn't maybe as painted by the main protaganists and have looked at the whole thing more objectively, not as a "Sisu" or "ACL/Higgs/CCC" 100% black and white issue.

Fair play to them for that, shown that their views on franchising, supporting local clubs and communities etc are genuine and not just thrown out to make some sort of point.

Wonder why some can't look at things in the same manner.

SISU rent boys all, paid off by their new PR firm.

Thenose · Jan 15, 2015

Coventry and the surrounding area is definetely Rugby territory. Neil Back, Garforth, Duckham , Grewcock, Cockerill

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 15, 2015

Thenose said:
Coventry and the surrounding area is definetely Rugby territory. Neil Back, Garforth, Duckham , Grewcock, Cockerill

Not forgetting Coventry Rugby club as a whole...

Surprised, incidentally, none of the likes of Duckham, Cotton, Brain have found their way to being put up for a soundbyte, either for or against the Wasps invasion.

Intheknow · Jan 15, 2015

Thenose said:
Coventry and the surrounding area is definetely Rugby territory. Neil Back, Garforth, Duckham , Grewcock, Cockerill

As reinforced by Leicester feeling the need to pay money for their advertising hoarding!

chiefdave · Jan 15, 2015

Intheknow said:
I'm trying to find an accurate statement in your post. I suspect that I could be looking a long time.

ACL will be making a loss again with all this PR they're having to pay for!

Intheknow said:
Well, one obvious point is that if Wasps needed CCFC at the RA for their business plan to work then Wasps would have required the licence to be more than 2 plus 2.

Would depend on the reason they needed CCFC back. Maybe they wanted them to be playing at the Ricoh at the point at which the naming rights were due for renewal. Maybe Wasps didn't want to be seen as sneaking in and buying our stadium so wanted us to be playing there when they arrived. Of course if you have any actual evidence feel free to post it.

Intheknow said:
as to the advert, suspect Wasps will be smiling, less than one month after the first fixture and rivals are already having their noses put out of joint.

Yes I'm sure they'll all be sat around laughing about how many teams they've managed to have a negative impact on.

martcov · Jan 15, 2015

RFC said:
Maybe a Sting in the Tale yet! I can't believe Ann Lucas and CCC could ever lie, especially as most on here have continually defended them but blamed the owners for everything!
Personally I'm still laughing.

Ha ha ha.... Hee hee hee...... Yes I can well imagine you are....

chiefdave · Jan 15, 2015

I don't know how anyone can read that Q&A at the end of the Observer article and not be fuming. To me if CCC didn't have something to hide you'd see straight answers to simple questions.

As for claiming the match against Leinster will bring millions into the city what a joke. What evidence do they have to support that. Of course if one Wasps match brings in millions how much was lost to the city by us playing a season in Northampton? How much more will be lost if the unthinkable happens and we end up moving out of the city on a permanent basis.

And to top it all the money has come out of council funds, so essentially it is taxpayers money that has been used. Another case of, if we're being charitable, misleading statements from CCC. The less charitable may say it is another outright lie.

Samo · Jan 15, 2015

chiefdave said:
I don't know how anyone can read that Q&A at the end of the Observer article and not be fuming.
To me if CCC didn't have something to hide you'd see straight answers to simple questions.

As for claiming the match against Leinster will bring millions into the city what a joke. What evidence do they have to support that. Of course if one Wasps match brings in millions how much was lost to the city by us playing a season in Northampton? How much more will be lost if the unthinkable happens and we end up moving out of the city on a permanent basis.

And to top it all the money has come out of council funds, so essentially it is taxpayers money that has been used. Another case of, if we're being charitable, misleading statements from CCC. The less charitable may say it is another outright lie.

Include me in the less than charitable camp, lying bastards. Its just a game. You might think Coventry City Council might care a tad more about the club than a London hedge fund but no... Not a shred more. Only about winning and egos and silly games.

Skyblueweeman · Jan 15, 2015

Nick said:
Surely they would know months in advance if Coldplay were going to play though?

My tuppence to this thread....Coldplay are fucking awful...

Sky Blue Harry H · Jan 15, 2015

italiahorse said:
.. or a skilled negotiator able to play a bad hand and win ?

For me that's it in a nutshell. Neither side in a negotiating position is going to show the other side it's cards. SISU tried to win the card game and lost. What I hate is the fact that our beloved club and its supporters have been the real losers, as we've had to suffer the consequences. Much as I'd happily lay the blame at the Council's door, for me it's Timmy and crew who get the lion's share of my ire

Samo · Jan 15, 2015

Skyblueweeman said:
My tuppence to this thread....Coldplay are fucking awful...

Oh how fashionable!

Skyblueweeman · Jan 15, 2015

Samo said:
Oh how fashionable! 

I think the words you were looking for Samo were 'factually correct'!

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 15, 2015

Skyblueweeman said:
I think the words you were looking for Samo were 'factually correct'!

'cheap like bait'

duffer · Jan 15, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
SISU rent boys all, paid off by their new PR firm.

If you keep quiet about it, I'll let you have a ride in my new speedboat.

Samo · Jan 15, 2015

Skyblueweeman said:
I think the words you were looking for Samo were 'factually correct'!

Who told you they are awful weeman? The bloke off Buzzcocks?
I know a fella that thinks the Beatles are awful. Opinions are like arseholes...everybody has one.

Skyblueweeman · Jan 15, 2015

Samo said:
Who told you they are awful weeman? The bloke off Buzzcocks?
I know a fella that thinks the Beatles are awful. Opinions are like arseholes...everybody has one.

My eardrums told me Samo. Like you alluded to, all about opinions.

Anyone who names their kid 'Apple' though....

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Samo · Jan 15, 2015

Skyblueweeman said:
My eardrums told me Samo. Like you alluded to, all about opinions.

Anyone who names their kid 'Apple' though....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh so its not about the music? Its about your'e opinions on naming children.

Moff · Jan 15, 2015

Intheknow said:
As reinforced by Leicester feeling the need to pay money for their advertising hoarding!

Wow headline news, someone had to pay for an advertsing hoarding. I bet it broke the bank. Is it also headline news wasps pay for adverts in the paper.

Skyblueweeman · Jan 15, 2015

Samo said:
Oh so its not about the music? Its about your'e opinions on naming children.

Jesus Samo...you're reading far too much into this...I think Coldplay are crap, that's all and was trying to add a little lightheartedness to the proceedings. Chill out sweet-pea...

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skybluericoh · Jan 15, 2015

Maybe ACL should have taken a leaf out of SISU's books and not filed the accounts on time? So ACL have won a game of poker CCC/HIGGS - people foreget if they had not stepped in then the Ricoh would not have been built and we would of been homeless a lot sooner. oOr maybe pay a high rent on HR would have been OK? Unfornunately we will nevr know now.

At least AL has come out and fessed up. Have the other side done that? Did I miss it?

torchomatic · Jan 15, 2015

Ann Lucas. #prideofcov

skybluericoh said:
Maybe ACL should have taken a leaf out of SISU's books and not filed the accounts on time? So ACL have won a game of poker CCC/HIGGS - people foreget if they had not stepped in then the Ricoh would not have been built and we would of been homeless a lot sooner. oOr maybe pay a high rent on HR would have been OK? Unfornunately we will nevr know now.

At least AL has come out and fessed up. Have the other side done that? Did I miss it?

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 15, 2015

skybluericoh said:
Maybe ACL should have taken a leaf out of SISU's books and not filed the accounts on time? So ACL have won a game of poker CCC/HIGGS - people foreget if they had not stepped in then the Ricoh would not have been built and we would of been homeless a lot sooner. oOr maybe pay a high rent on HR would have been OK? Unfornunately we will nevr know now.

At least AL has come out and fessed up. Have the other side done that? Did I miss it?

We did of course take up our option to buy back Highfield Road *after* the agreement was made to transfer responsibility for the Ricoh build to CCC.

Samo · Jan 15, 2015

Skyblueweeman said:
Jesus Samo...you're reading far too much into this...I think Coldplay are crap, that's all and was trying to add a little lightheartedness to the proceedings.
Chill out sweet-pea...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey man, this is a thread about council scumbags, you brought up coldplay! I just think its silly shit that's hip to say... Until those in the limelight choose the next whipping boys. Grow a mind of your own weeman.

lordsummerisle · Jan 15, 2015

Samo said:
Hey man, this a thread about council scumbags, you brought up coldplay! I just think its silly shit that's hip to say... Until those in the limelight choose the next whipping boys. Grow a mind of your own weeman.

I find them a bit bland myself, but then again my musical tastes are mostly trapped in the 80's like a prehistoric fly trapped in amber.

Samo · Jan 15, 2015

lordsummerisle said:
I find them a bit bland myself, but then again my musical tastes are mostly trapped in the 80's like a prehistoric fly trapped in amber.

Well compared to The Smiths almost all music is bland!

mark_ccfc · Jan 15, 2015

Don't blame her for lying at all. SISU withholding the rent meant the council had their backs to the wall. You have to fight fire with foire in those circumstances. SISU were gunning for the freehold as Sepalla stated quite clearly herself in the CET article. SISU got outmanoevred in the end and I have no sympathy with them. Live by the sword die by the sword.

hill83 · Jan 15, 2015

Sky Blue Pete said:
You do understand its an elected role don't you? She receives expenses not a salary

Still got a boat race like a melted vagina

skybluericoh · Jan 15, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
We did of course take up our option to buy back Highfield Road *after* the agreement was made to transfer responsibility for the Ricoh build to CCC.

So we bought back HR and still went into a rent deal with ACL. Bloody council!! why did they let us do that? can't wait for the next election, I'll show 'em!

Neutral Fan · Jan 16, 2015

Ian1779 said:
That's not strictly true though is it.... Saints had to provide a stadium with a minimum capacity to meet the Heineken Cup criteria. At no point was their ever serious dialogue about moving to MK

I'm afraid to say there was.
Going back as far as around 2005 ish, Winkie was telling people he wanted to franchise the Saints. MGI are acting out Winkie's dream.

Council admits Ricoh Arena was not sustainable without CCFC (8 Viewers)

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