Council could vote on Ricoh takeover as early as Tuesday (1 Viewer)

italiahorse · Oct 2, 2014

Sick Boy said:
Do people still believe that ACL want the best for the club and its fans?

What would be an ideal scenario ?

Assuming Wasps have a working model that allows them to play there big games at the Ricoh and this is acceptable to Coventry RFC and there fans.
Perhaps watching a top Rugby Club in Coventry again may generate more interest in the game and have a knock on to Coventry RFC.

Would it be more secure for everybody if Wasps and CCFC take an equal share in the stadium and split all stadium incomes which would be greatly increased by having both CCFC and Wasps there.

A 90% stake by Wasps is a definite threat to CCFC at the Ricoh and this is where all the emotion is.

Sisu need to show their interest in either taking the 90% stake on offer or at least go for 50%. Assuming CCC have not got there arse in their hands with Sisu.

The lack of information makes us CCFC fans expect the worst.

skybluetony176 · Oct 2, 2014

Nick said:
Like a lot of other clubs and businesses you mean?

Point me to an announcement where TF or anyone else from SISU have laid out what the arrangements for the club will be? I keep asking people who are saying it will be an arrangement like any other club has (Arsenal often given as a specific example) but no one ever comes back to me.

The fact that SISU can't or won't put fan's concerns (those of us that are concerned at least) to bed with a simple statement should be a worry for any right minded fan. It's also something that the SCG should have pushed SISU to put to bed a long time ago.

Monners · Oct 2, 2014

Indeed Torch. I am just sick of the whole thing really, and have been for years (pre Ricoh and Sisu included). Actually gets me down to be honest, althoiugh there are more pressing things to worry about. I am past the anger stage with the whole sorry mess.

PS: I am not Marvin the Paranoid Android

Nick · Oct 2, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
Point me to an announcement where TF or anyone else from SISU have laid out what the arrangements for the club will be? I keep asking people who are saying it will be an arrangement like any other club has (Arsenal often given as a specific example) but no one ever comes back to me.

The fact that SISU can't or won't put fan's concerns (those of us that are concerned at least) to bed with a simple statement should be a worry for any right minded fan. It's also something that the SCG should have pushed SISU to put to bed a long time ago.

You said about it being owned by a different company, I said what like other clubs and businesses. I wasn't talking about small print, just the fact they are owned by different companies.

sky blue john · Oct 2, 2014

I would like the council to offer the same deal to CCFC ( not another Sisu owned company !)
Then CCFC can't be ripped off by associated company fees and charges and then there would be no rent of course !

Grendel · Oct 2, 2014

sky blue john said:
I would like the council to offer the same deal to CCFC ( not another Sisu owned company !)
Then CCFC can't be ripped off by associated company fees and charges and then there would be no rent of course !

Brilliant. How will CCFC pay for it? Sell the whole squad?

skybluetony176 · Oct 2, 2014

Grendel said:
Squad budget will be set by turnover. - the rent payment is irrelevant.

Stop talking nonsense.

What you are allowed to spend upto is determined by turnover, what's available to spend depends on all operating costs including any rent. Unless you want the club to aquire more debt?

Grendel · Oct 2, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
What you are allowed to spend upto is determined by turnover, what's available to spend depends on all operating costs including any rent. Unless you want the club to aquire more debt?

Every club acquires more debt. Show me a club that makes money.

Jack Griffin · Oct 2, 2014

italiahorse said:
What would be an ideal scenario ?

Assuming Wasps have a working model that allows them to play there big games at the Ricoh and this is acceptable to Coventry RFC and there fans.
Perhaps watching a top Rugby Club in Coventry again may generate more interest in the game and have a knock on to Coventry RFC.

Would it be more secure for everybody if Wasps and CCFC take an equal share in the stadium and split all stadium incomes which would be greatly increased by having both CCFC and Wasps there.

A 90% stake by Wasps is a definite threat to CCFC at the Ricoh and this is where all the emotion is.

Sisu need to show their interest in either taking the 90% stake on offer or at least go for 50%. Assuming CCC have not got there arse in their hands with Sisu.

The lack of information makes us CCFC fans expect the worst.

I've heard several people express the idea of Wasps and SISU/ARVO sharing the resource.
Frankly I think that idea is naive and a total non starter, I think either of those parties would want full control.

Sick Boy · Oct 2, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
I've heard several people express the idea of Wasps and SISU/ARVO sharing the resource.
Frankly I think that idea is naive and a total non starter, I think either of those parties would want full control.

There is also the issue that we'd need to be the main tenants at the stadium in order to comply with FL rules.

If this does actually happen then between them, ACL/CCC and SISU will have whacked the last couple of nails into the coffin.

Ian1779 · Oct 2, 2014

Taking the SISU factor out of it for one second, the club does not have the funds or assets to buy anything, nevermind a stadium or a controlling stake in ACL. So the stadium/lease/whatever would be owned by a 'different' company.

Personally I believe that if the owners were to take control of ACL in it's entirety, then there would be enough income generated that could be classed as 'FFP' and 'non-FFP' in order to run the football club competitively as well as pay a dividend to shareholders.

skyblueinBaku · Oct 2, 2014

Sick Boy said:
There is also the issue that we'd need to be the main tenants at the stadium in order to comply with FL rules.

We know that the FL will break or bend their own rules if it suits them.

rupert_bear · Oct 2, 2014

Can someone explain to me if Wasps became our landlord and played some or even all of their games at the Ricoh, why would that be a threat to the football club, as I see it they (Wasps) would need additional revenue extra for what would be about 20 games, so what better than a football club ? Fixtures apart from cup-ties are known by about June and it doesn't take a rocket scientist sort out who plays when and where. As for the pitch other clubs share and looking at the Ospreys/Swansea City pitch at the Liberty Stadium it always seems immaculate to me.

M&B Stand · Oct 2, 2014

Sick Boy said:
Do people still believe that ACL want the best for the club and its fans?

They didn't believe that anyway, they used that old line, but backing ACL was their way of putting pressure on the clubs owners. That's probably why no new owner would take us on incase they become unpopular.

sky blue john · Oct 2, 2014

Grendel said:
Brilliant. How will CCFC pay for it? Sell the whole squad?

For starters in the last year the club have taken an estmated 5million in extra tv money and player sales. Where has this gone ?
Also how would any of Sisu's other companys purchase Acl ?
The answer is Arvo would loan it and add to the debt your not bothered about !!

Sick Boy · Oct 2, 2014

sky blue john said:
For starters in the last year the club have taken an estmated 5million in extra tv money and player sales. Where has this gone ?
Also how would any of Sisu's other companys purchase Acl ?
The answer is Arvo would loan it and add to the debt your not bothered about !!

Most of our money goes paying of debt and operating costs.

Ahhhh...but fisher said that we were debt free. He lied to us, down with him etc etc. - 2014

We are so lucky to have such hard-nosed business owners running our club, they take no prisoners. Uncle Ray said that we are debt free as well - 2009

rupert_bear · Oct 2, 2014

sky blue john said:
For starters in the last year the club have taken an estmated 5million in extra tv money and player sales. Where has this gone ?
Also how would any of Sisu's other companys purchase Acl ?
The answer is Arvo would loan it and add to the debt your not bothered about !!

That is a very good point, where has that extra money gone ! The Arsenal away televised cup-tie was an unplanned bonus and I suggest the sudden rise in Callum Wilson's value a massive bonus and also not bargained for. So where has that money gone ? because one thing for certain none has gone towards the team.

sky blue john · Oct 2, 2014

Ian1779 said:
Taking the SISU factor out of it for one second, the club does not have the funds or assets to buy anything, nevermind a stadium or a controlling stake in ACL. So the stadium/lease/whatever would be owned by a 'different' company.

Personally I believe that if the owners were to take control of ACL in it's entirety, then there would be enough income generated that could be classed as 'FFP' and 'non-FFP' in order to run the football club competitively as well as pay a dividend to shareholders.

Lol ! which comedy clubs do you work ?
The last 12months you have been claiming Acl is worthless now you think they can be run at a profit and pay a dividend.

sky blue john · Oct 2, 2014

rupert_bear said:
That is a very good point, where has that extra money gone ! The Arsenal away televised cup-tie was an unplanned bonus and I suggest the sudden rise in Callum Wilson's value a massive bonus and also not bargained for. So where has that money gone ? because one thing for certain none has gone towards the team.

I would say that these windfalls would have been at least enough to cover buying the 50% Higgs share.

Ian1779 · Oct 2, 2014

sky blue john said:
Lol ! which comedy clubs do you work ?
The last 12months you have been claiming Acl is worthless now you think they can be run at a profit and pay a dividend.

If you actually bothered to read any of my posts you would know I said that ACL as a business was not viable without the football club. So if the club owned both there is potential to make plenty of money -there will now be an extra 250,000 visitors a year due to the return of the club.

italiahorse · Oct 2, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
I've heard several people express the idea of Wasps and SISU/ARVO sharing the resource.
Frankly I think that idea is naive and a total non starter, I think either of those parties would want full control.

Your probably right but would a high profile rugby team and football team sharing the facility 50/50 be better than Wasps obtaining 90%?

In all cases Sisu need to tell us how they stand.
I'm hoping (dreaming?) that CCFC are a substantial part of the deal and that's why we have heard nothing from Sisu.

stupot07 · Oct 2, 2014

italiahorse said:
What would be an ideal scenario ?

Assuming Wasps have a working model that allows them to play there big games at the Ricoh and this is acceptable to Coventry RFC and there fans.
Perhaps watching a top Rugby Club in Coventry again may generate more interest in the game and have a knock on to Coventry RFC.

Would it be more secure for everybody if Wasps and CCFC take an equal share in the stadium and split all stadium incomes which would be greatly increased by having both CCFC and Wasps there.

A 90% stake by Wasps is a definite threat to CCFC at the Ricoh and this is where all the emotion is.

Sisu need to show their interest in either taking the 90% stake on offer or at least go for 50%. Assuming CCC have not got there arse in their hands with Sisu.

The lack of information makes us CCFC fans expect the worst.

Wasps won't just play European games there, that will be the start, then the odd league game then within 3-5 year they will have permanently moved.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 2, 2014

Otis said:
And why haven't Sisu come out and made a statement at their 'sadness' that ACL are trying to do a deal with an outside party, after being denied the opportunity themselves?

Otis.. Don’t think they are in a position to say that without it backfiring on them.

Remember.. They have been given an opportunity to buy 50% into the Higgs shares but as the Judge said they lost there appetite to do a deal.

Nick · Oct 2, 2014

Sky Blue Dal said:
Otis.. Don’t think they are in a position to say that without it backfiring on them.

Remember.. They have been given an opportunity to buy 50% into the Higgs shares but as the Judge said they lost there appetite to do a deal.

As well as higgs losing the appetite to sell

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 2, 2014

Nick said:
As well as higgs losing the appetite to sell

Correct!

But all I am saying is that they are not in a position to say they weren't given an opportunity to buy.

sky blue john · Oct 2, 2014

Nick said:
As well as higgs losing the appetite to sell

Only because the goal posts kept changing !!
Wink wink.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 2, 2014

Sky Blue Dal said:
Correct!

But all I am saying is that they are not in a position to say they weren't given an opportunity to buy.

...although they can say they were not given the opportunity to buy control....ie 90%....

italiahorse · Oct 2, 2014

stupot07 said:
Wasps won't just play European games there, that will be the start, then the odd league game then within 3-5 year they will have permanently moved.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

What sort of support do wasps get ?

Is it Man U type where they travel from all over the country?
Are they London based and they all travel to Wycombe?
Are they Wycombe based ?

What are the majority of Wasps fans saying about it and where ?

What is the CET source and why just the inflammatory bit not the detail ?

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 2, 2014

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
...although they can say they were not given the opportunity to buy control....ie 90%....

True.. but would they have an appetite for that deal too if it was offered.. I doubt it.

Would have ended the same way as with the 50% deal.

Jack Griffin · Oct 2, 2014

rupert_bear said:
Can someone explain to me if Wasps became our landlord and played some or even all of their games at the Ricoh, why would that be a threat to the football club, as I see it they (Wasps) would need additional revenue extra for what would be about 20 games, so what better than a football club ? Fixtures apart from cup-ties are known by about June and it doesn't take a rocket scientist sort out who plays when and where. As for the pitch other clubs share and looking at the Ospreys/Swansea City pitch at the Liberty Stadium it always seems immaculate to me.

In fact it would be the Ospreys/Swansea model, but this time the Rugby club would be owners.
Certainly not what CCFC fans want or expect, but not I think a death blow in itself.

Otis · Oct 2, 2014

italiahorse said:
What sort of support do wasps get ?

Is it Man U type where they travel from all over the country?
Are they London based and they all travel to Wycombe?
Are they Wycombe based ?

What are the majority of Wasps fans saying about it and where ?

What is the CET source and why just the inflammatory bit not the detail ?

Well going by their forums (and that is all we have to judge on), they are pretty much all unamiously against it.

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 2, 2014

sky blue john said:
Only because the goal posts kept changing !!
Wink wink.

Most likely.

We need to understand that in business SISU were the chasers and it was all up to them to entice Higgs to do a deal. They could not achieve this and as with many conclusions in the world of business, after prolonged dealingsw both party lose the appetite to complete the deal and the chaser comes back home empty handed.

rupert_bear · Oct 2, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
In fact it would be the Ospreys/Swansea model, but this time the Rugby club would be owners.
Certainly not what CCFC fans want or expect, but not I think a death blow in itself.

The thing is as I see it. There's been a lot of statements on here saying the club should own its stadium and in the ideal world I'd agree, but the question has to be asked and answered, Who is the club ? and at the moment we have to say Sisu or Otium or is it Arco, all seem the same to me. So does that mean we would be happy for sisu to own the Ricoh as they seem to be our owners although that isn't clear and if sisu did own the stadium do we think they would be spending any profits from the Ricoh on the football team because I don't.

Jack Griffin · Oct 2, 2014

rupert_bear said:
The thing is as I see it. There's been a lot of statements on here saying the club should own its stadium and in the ideal world I'd agree, but the question has to be asked and answered, Who is the club ? and at the moment we have to say Sisu or Otium or is it Arco, all seem the same to me. So does that mean we would be happy for sisu to own the Ricoh as they seem to be our owners although that isn't clear and if sisu did own the stadium do we think they would be spending any profits from the Ricoh on the football team because I don't.

It isn't Otium, because they're owned by ARVO/SISU. I think at this point SISU are not that much involved as ARVO have all the charges & probably the lions share of the shares.

so really it is ARVO that own the club, but they are a cayman islands registered fund. No shareholder detail is available.

rupert_bear · Oct 2, 2014

So come on Sickboy, Grendel, Nick and others, nail you colours to the mast. Would you be happy for the likes of ARCO to own the Ricoh

Council could vote on Ricoh takeover as early as Tuesday (1 Viewer)

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