Council funding for Ricoh Refurb (4 Viewers)

[MusicDating]

So it is government funding via CCC. I understand the use of the stadium for an event such as the commonwealth games, no problem with that. Effectively Wasps lease of 250 years makes it theirs? CCC own the freehold? So who does own it? CCC with Wasps as tenants all be it for 250 years? I wonder if Wasps will share F&B, car parking and profits with CCC. Is that not what CCFC want, a fair crack of the whip. I will be watching this very closely to see the benifits to the City of Coventry that this venture between CCC and Wasps brings. Wasps are a private sporting venture just as CCFC are, i cant see how they can be supported by government (tax payers) money. It is state aid to a private company via the back door. unless ofcourse CCC show and prove the extra income to them and the council tax payers of Coventry. We rally need to vote this lot out next time we get chance.

Has anyone got examples of CCC cutting funding to services (libraries/bus routes etc) that can be publicised against this? As people have mentioned before, an independent standing just for CCFC probably wouldn't win, but a campaign against corruption/moral might. Maybe the candidate should wear a white suit too.

 

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[martincov]

Pretty sure state aid laws are suspended currently due to Covid19.
.....an obvious way for CCC to throw money at their pet project, in public view, also to rub our faces in it....
Don't be surprised if there is more chucked their way in some way, shape or form.
Again, 3.8 mil is a hell of a lot for that refurb.....
....here's 1.5 mil for the stairs etc, and another couple to make up for our deal to keep ccfc away for a bit..

I do not doubt that state aid rules are suspended. Still a pile of ........ though isnt it? I suppose it depends what events they host? The finger up the bum and dip it in your mates mates pint competition will be interesting, will it be on ifollow or sky? PIck the carrots out of a wrecked rugby players spew after they have won something even lower down the scale than the checkatrade trophy. Not taking the .... out of CCFC winning it either, we all know Wasps would never get 40,000 at an event. Maybe? but they wont be involved, some decent band at the ricoh might.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Here we go....

Simon being disingenuous as ever. If there was central government funding there will have been an application process with a costed business case which I imagine the Council will have drafted. It isn't like they just said "Transfer £3.8m to Wasps please govt"

 

[oldfiver]

As it's public money, under freedom of information would we be able to get a breakdown on exactly how the money is being spent?

and check it is spent where it should?

 

[fernandopartridge]

It isn't mentioned on the gov.uk website under the C&W projects, not sure if that's because it is being funded by the WMCA too:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906563/GBF_Summary_Coventry___Warwickshire.pdf

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Has anyone got examples of CCC cutting funding to services (libraries/bus routes etc) that can be publicised against this? As people have mentioned before, an independent standing just for CCFC probably wouldn't win, but a campaign against corruption/moral might. Maybe the candidate should wear a white suit too.

Different funding stream. Can't use this money towards services in that manner. If they did say bye-bye to getting any future funding.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Time to ask the council how many sustainable (i.e. not short term construction) jobs are to be created by this £3.8m investment and how will they monitor it?

 

[Nick]

Time to ask the council how many sustainable (i.e. not short term construction) jobs are to be created by this £3.8m investment and how will they monitor it?

Yep, they need to backup this "legacy".

What are the chances they do though?

 

[MusicDating]

Different funding stream. Can't use this money towards services in that manner. If they did say bye-bye to getting any future funding.

Fair point

 

[mr_monkey]

and check it is spent where it should?

Exactly. Let's get the spend scrutinized and show what this judo "legacy" is getting us as citizens of Coventry

 

[shmmeee]

Time to ask the council how many sustainable (i.e. not short term construction) jobs are to be created by this £3.8m investment and how will they monitor it?

It’s the LEPs/Regional Mayors who apply.

Getting Building Fund

The government has agreed projects with mayors and local enterprise partnerships funded by the Getting Building Fund.

www.gov.uk

This is SELEP so the local process will be different but the general requirements are basically the same:https://www.southeastlep.com/app/uploads/2020/07/SELEP-Getting-Building-Fund-webinar-slides.pdf

 

[Nick]

It has now been revealed that an additional £1.4m has also been made available to Ricoh Arena via CWLEP from the Local Growth Fund and Growing Places Fund.

Oh look, some usual faces on the board of CWLEP too:

The Board | CWLEP

www.cwlep.com

You couldn't make it up.

They have been given another grant.

 

[oldfiver]

It’s the LEPs/Regional Mayors who apply.

Getting Building Fund

The government has agreed projects with mayors and local enterprise partnerships funded by the Getting Building Fund.

www.gov.uk

This is SELEP so the local process will be different but the general requirements are basically the same:https://www.southeastlep.com/app/uploads/2020/07/SELEP-Getting-Building-Fund-webinar-slides.pdf

But do they not just put forward proposals from the local authorities?

Are you saying Andy Street helped sanction this at the same time he was arbitrating with WASPS / SISU?

 

[martincov]

The point i was trying to make is who actually owns the ricoh? a 250 year lease tenant or the freehold owner? i was always lead to believe that if you lease a building , which the ricoh is, you need permissions from the owner to sub let? so the owner therefore has an influence on what a tenant can do? regarding a sub let. Does that apply in the case of the ricoh? As far as i see any government investment in a CCC owned complex should have a financial effect to CCC and the council tax payer in return for that investment. Someone on here maybe able to enlighten us all. So CCC do have a close nosey on whatever Wasps do with the building (ricoh) for the advantage of the City of Coventry, and whom they may sub let to? Apologies about my grammer etc. i am a brickie who went to stringer and freddies.

 

[chiefdave]

Oh look, some usual faces on the board of CWLEP too:

The Board | CWLEP

www.cwlep.com

You couldn't make it up.

This is ridiculous. How are Wasps claiming it is going to cost £5.3m to put a roof over some steps?

Remember when the council claimed we couldn't have the 50% of the freehold promised because some of the Ricoh funding was grant money and that would be state aid. What is handing millions over to Wasps?

 

[Nick]

Stephen Vaughan, Chief Executive at Ricoh Arena, said: “This investment ensures that Ricoh Arena and North East Coventry will continue to feel the economic benefit of having the Commonwealth Games for many years to come thanks to its top-class facilities"

So now they have £5.3m of funding but nobody seems to know how it is going to help the economic benefit?

 

[shmmeee]

But do they not just put forward proposals from the local authorities?

Are you saying Andy Street helped sanction this at the same time he was arbitrating with WASPS / SISU?

Read the webinar slides. Couldn’t find the process for CWLEP. I’d imagine the LAs in the LEP would assist with applications but the process was open to anyone AFAICT. Of course anything CCFC related would’ve fallen at the “shovel ready” stage.

But yeah Andy Street will have been involved for anything WMCA put forward Id imagine. Same as Warwick and Cov Uni, the CBI, and any other LEP partners.

 

[martincov]

Yep, they need to backup this "legacy".

What are the chances they do though?

Yes, back up the lagacy to the City of Coventry and its worth in real terms. Not projected figures of how many visitors and their spend in pounds. those figures will come after the event. Currently the legacy of the ricoh is the fact that it is occupied by egg chacers from out of town.

 

[Nick]

This is ridiculous. How are Wasps claiming it is going to cost £5.3m to put a roof over some steps?

Remember when the council claimed we couldn't have the 50% of the freehold promised because some of the Ricoh funding was grant money and that would be state aid. What is handing millions over to Wasps?

They have near enough been given what they paid for the whole thing. The same old faces involved as well.

You would think Jim OBoyle will be telling everybody how many jobs this is going to create and the economical benefit for Coventry and the local area rather than just Wasps.

 

[shmmeee]

The point i was trying to make is who actually owns the ricoh? a 250 year lease tenant or the freehold owner? i was always lead to believe that if you lease a building , which the ricoh is, you need permissions from the owner to sub let? so the owner therefore has an influence on what a tenant can do? regarding a sub let. Does that apply in the case of the ricoh? As far as i see any government investment in a CCC owned complex should have a financial effect to CCC and the council tax payer in return for that investment. Someone on here maybe able to enlighten us all. So CCC do have a close nosey on whatever Wasps do with the building (ricoh) for the advantage of the City of Coventry, and whom they may sub let to? Apologies about my grammer etc. i am a brickie who went to stringer and freddies.

Depends on the lease terms is the short answer. For all intents and purposes a lease that long is basically a freehold, but you can sell a freehold and still place covenants over the use of it. Lease should be registered with LR somewhere but I haven’t managed to find it.

 

[martincov]

This is ridiculous. How are Wasps claiming it is going to cost £5.3m to put a roof over some steps?

Remember when the council claimed we couldn't have the 50% of the freehold promised because some of the Ricoh funding was grant money and that would be state aid. What is handing millions over to Wasps?

Jobs for the boys! another company set up by Wasps directors to carry out the overpriced works?

 

[fernandopartridge]

It’s the LEPs/Regional Mayors who apply.

Getting Building Fund

The government has agreed projects with mayors and local enterprise partnerships funded by the Getting Building Fund.

www.gov.uk

This is SELEP so the local process will be different but the general requirements are basically the same:https://www.southeastlep.com/app/uploads/2020/07/SELEP-Getting-Building-Fund-webinar-slides.pdf

LEPs do not actually exist as formal entities, they're essentially just a provider of strategic advice. Their money goes solely through the council's books.

 

[chiefdave]

So now they have £5.3m of funding but nobody seems to know how it is going to help the economic benefit?

Millions will be generated for the area by having a roof over some steps. Its what's been missing for years and clearly the cause of those huge losses.

 

[jordan210]

"Stephen Vaughan, Chief Executive at Ricoh Arena, said: “This investment ensures that Ricoh Arena and North East Coventry will continue to feel the economic benefit of having the Commonwealth Games for many years to come thanks to its top-class facilities."

Yeah im sure 5 million for two days of Judo is well worth it.

 

[Nick]

You would think either him or his mate O'Boyle would be saying exactly how Coventry will feel the benefit of it?

 

[oldfiver]

"Stephen Vaughan, Chief Executive at Ricoh Arena, said: “This investment ensures that Ricoh Arena and North East Coventry will continue to feel the economic benefit of having the Commonwealth Games for many years to come thanks to its top-class facilities."

Yeah im sure 5 million for two days of Judo is well worth it.


He makes a few days of a minorty sport sound as though we are hosting the whole games

 

[martincov]

Depends on the lease terms is the short answer. For all intents and purposes a lease that long is basically a freehold, but you can sell a freehold and still place covenants over the use of it. Lease should be registered with LR somewhere but I haven’t managed to find it.

Yes i understand that. Again a point is CCC have influence over a tenant in this case its Wasps, Freehold or lease? say you buy a leasehold house to live in? it is normally 100 years from scratch? reducing so it has a value over the reducing years. 250 years is a very different situation for the freehold owner to remain with a holding. Could the owner after that time or any time between right it off and call it quits with the tenant? lets face it 250 years is a very long time. is it just a legal thing to allow the tenent to raise finance against an asset? the exact thing that CCC didnt want SISU to do but are allowing Wasps to do?

 

[oldfiver]

It says it will "create" and implies this is a a new capital project. This is not a contribution to a refurbishment. This should increase the capital value of the Stadium on top of the amount already gifted

Where does it say how much WASPS will be paying ?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Alright, alright...simmer down ffs...

NW and shmmeee (or ‘Team Semantics’) will be along shortly to help you decode everything via a lengthy three page mutual like-fest dialogue regarding how this is actually SISU’s fault.

Asyouwere

Fuck off with your idiocy now.

Unlike moronic cocks like you, I'll look at things on the evidence.

Can't see how this one makes any sense.

Now stop being a vapid twat and get yourself some brain cleansing.

Snide wankerisms while thinking you're being too clever for yourself do nothing.

Asyouwere

 

[fernandopartridge]

Has the money been found for the essential bay platform at Cov Station that is needed to help increase the rail service to the Ricoh (and to Nuneaton and Bedworth more generally?)

 

[Nick]

Doesnt look as if anybody from the media is going to actually question them about what it will bring to the economy (and not just Wasps).

 

[oldfiver]

Yes i understand that. Again a point is CCC have influence over a tenant in this case its Wasps, Freehold or lease? say you buy a leasehold house to live in? it is normally 100 years from scratch? reducing so it has a value over the reducing years. 250 years is a very different situation for the freehold owner to remain with a holding. Could the owner after that time or any time between right it off and call it quits with the tenant? lets face it 250 years is a very long time. is it just a legal thing to allow the tenent to raise finance against an asset? the exact thing that CCC didnt want SISU to do but are allowing Wasps to do?

Normally the grant of a 250 year lease comes at a high premium. At present any lease of less than 60 years is not looked at by lenders - some insist on more. 250 years is treated as freehold in a lenders eyes

 

[Skyblueweeman]

How much is my council tax going up to pay for that?

You won't have to pay for it Dave. Wasps are rolling in it now with this grant! (tongue firmly in cheek...)

 

[mark_ccfc]

What is in it for the council or the tax payers for them to throw over 50% of the purchase cost on the Ricoh. The leasehold is 250 years.

How will the council see any benefit from it? Are they going to asks Wasps to pay towards it?

I haven't a clue - why don't you ask them. I was just pointing out the excuse they would probably use if they were pressed about why they are funding a privately owned stadium with public money.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Ultimately, whilst this irritates me greatly. It looks like poor value for money and hardly the silver bullet to Wasps' problems. Covid aside, the timescale for doing the work and refurbishment just means the hall is out of action (which says everything about their current order book).