Council pays Sky Blues six-figure sum. ACL left to foot the bill (4 Viewers)

[martcov]

They, they, they?

Referring to CCFC - see first sentence. Don't get paranoid. Or are you criticising my English?

 

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[torchomatic]

I know. Surely, it's "we"?

Referring to CCFC - see first sentence. Don't get paranoid. Or are you criticising my English?

 

[mrbluesky87]

Referring to CCFC - see first sentence. Don't get paranoid. Or are you criticising my English?

Its definately paranoia, had you been refering to the Council/ACL as 'They' it would not have even been thought about.

Its about as sad as the situation gets now i'm afraid that they dont like it when you talk about them and not the other:facepalm:

 

[torchomatic]

No, it wouldn't because we don't support the Council/ACL. "They" are not "our" team.

I can see though the whole thing has gone over your head.

had you been refering to the Council/ACL as 'They' it would not have even been thought about.

 

[covcity4life]

its really quite simple mrdimbluesky

we=ccfc
them=council or sisu

get it? got it? good.

 

[fernandopartridge]

What's clear is that CCFC paid more rates than they should have, according to the VOA.

It isn't necessarily the case that ACL will have to pay those additional rates, because the article suggests that they'll appeal too. It certainly isn't the case that ACL ripped-off CCFC here either, as far as the evidence suggests. As for 2005, the VOA site seems to suggest that you can't appeal that far back, but who knows what SISU can achieve in court. Of course, if they can appeal this far back successfully then it follows that ACL could follow the same path too.

I sense that you're happy that ACL have a big bill to find, potentially. Fair enough. Personally, I'm neutral about it - businesses have to pay their dues, rates, taxes, rent etc. (or at least most seem to).

Obviously the £590k that Otium will have to pay ACL will take the sting out of it somewhat, assuming they get paid.

I've never known an appeal to be appealed back again. It's been heard once. Next stage is Valuation Tribunal I think.

 

[fernandopartridge]

all a bit of a mess isn't it. It could get even messier.

If ACL are appealing and get a reduction of the rateable value then that means the basis of the calculation for the refund to CCFC is going to be wrong again. CCFC could find themselves facing a demand to repay part of the refund they have just received.

Can ACL appeal the apportionment? It would be usual for tenant and landlord to work together in terms of this I would have thought because the outcome affects both. Given the circumstances at the Arena anyone prepared to bet that they have co operated?

If CCFC were successful in going back 8 years surely ACL would have the same grounds to do so? So is it all bad news for ACL? If they are successful in getting a rates reduction that mitigates the effect of the additional charge doesn't it? As ever nothing at CCFC or the Ricoh is clear cut and straight forward

Am glad CCFC got a rebate, would be even more pleased if it had been all applied to the squad since January, and even more pleased if they can all cut out the snide remarks, sit down negotiate and bring our team home

Just one thing after another

That's if the CCFC portion is conversely increased on appeal.

 

[martcov]

I know. Surely, it's "we"?

Am I getting a share of a rates rebate? Super.

 

[oldskyblue58]

That's if the CCFC portion is conversely increased on appeal.

not necessarily. The CCFC appeal was as I understand it based on the split of the rates between CCFC and ACL. If ACL succeed in getting a reduction in the overall rateable value then the calculations have to be redone. The split can be exactly the same but if the RV goes down then Otium will need to repay some of the refund

 

[mrbluesky87]

its really quite simple mrdimbluesky

we=ccfc
them=council or sisu

get it? got it? good.

You sad little boy however as long as you have Torch wagging your tail, thats all that matters.

Like I said its paranoia getting to you:laugh:

 

[martcov]

When talking about football ( I know it doesn't happen much nowadays ) I refer to CCFC as "we". "We" being team and fans. When referring to a rates rebate which I won't be getting, I tend to stick to "they". I won't refer to, say, the council winning the JR as "we" in "we won the JR".

 

[fernandopartridge]

not necessarily. The CCFC appeal was as I understand it based on the split of the rates between CCFC and ACL. If ACL succeed in getting a reduction in the overall rateable value then the calculations have to be redone. The split can be exactly the same but if the RV goes down then Otium will need to repay some of the refund

ACL can appeal their assessment. That doesn't mean that CCFC's increases necessarily.

 

[mrbluesky87]

When talking about football ( I know it doesn't happen much nowadays ) I refer to CCFC as "we". "We" being team and fans. When referring to a rates rebate which I won't be getting, I tend to stick to "they". I won't refer to, say, the council winning the JR as "we" in "we won the JR".

I think most people get it and understand, unfortunately as I said previously this is where we are as fans and obviously there are those few who tend to try and cause aggrevation over absolutely nothing

I would go one further and say when talking abouth the football team its 'WE' but if talking about our owners its a definate 'They and Them'.

 

[DaleM]

FFS Ain't anyone got work today ;-)

 

[torchomatic]

Now, but "your" club is. For me anything to do with Coventry City is "we". My team Coventry City is getting a rebate, so it's "we". My team are selling a player so "we" will get a fee - not me personally mind, I won't have a slice. Obviously, not for you. Fair enough.

Am I getting a share of a rates rebate? Super.

 

[oldskyblue58]

it does fp if it is for the same rateable part of the site. The whole site is split in to 9 different areas currently each with a rateable value, separate reference number and rates bill. The one that SISU have appealed is a specific area shared by CCFC and ACL. That whole shared area has one RV, there is not a different RV for CCFC and another for ACL. If ACL appeal the RV and succeed then that whole area that was shared will have its rates recalculated then reduced and then be split between them. If that RV for 2010,2011 & 2012goes down in future appeal then that means the calculation of the split amounts based on last years appeal must be wrong and there will be a repayment due from CCFC

 

[martcov]

Now, but "your" club is. For me anything to do with Coventry City is "we". My team Coventry City is getting a rebate, so it's "we". My team are selling a player so "we" will get a fee - not me personally mind, I won't have a slice. Obviously, not for you. Fair enough.

No, when you are talking about a player, then ok it's "we". I agree. This is because it has something directly to do with our common interest - the football team.

Getting a rates rebate is nice for the owners/ the club, but I won't be chanting "we won the rates rebate" as emotionally as "we won the cup". Two different things. If the club gets a new tea lady, will you be telling people at work "we've got a new tea lady?"

 

[sky blue john]

Now, but "your" club is. For me anything to do with Coventry City is "we". My team Coventry City is getting a rebate, so it's "we". My team are selling a player so "we" will get a fee - not me personally mind, I won't have a slice. Obviously, not for you. Fair enough.

So going by this statement you class Arvo, Otuim & Sisu as we ???

 

[duffer]

I've never known an appeal to be appealed back again. It's been heard once. Next stage is Valuation Tribunal I think.

Ah no, the original appeal was CCFC v VOA based on the Rateable Value RV they were paying.

The next one will be ACL v VOA, presumably based on the new RV that they will face.

I think both of these appeals will have been/will be heard by the Valuation Tribunal if I've understood the mechanism correctly (unless CCFC's appeal was sorted without needing to go to Tribunal).

As a minor claim to fame, I've been in front of the VT in person (won too) - but that was about Council Tax banding. Fecking council, eh, ripping people off left, right and centre.

This is way more complex, admittedly, although I'm not sure of the impact on CCFC if ACL also win their appeal, and possibly the grounds for the appeal. I can't see how having received a rebate that it can then be clawed back (OSB has some different thoughts on this though, I can see).

Anyway, if it was me as ACL, I'd appeal along the lines of "although we owned the lease to the ground, we undertook to always have it available to the club... therefore we couldn't receive the full benefit of the lease, and therefore we shouldn't pay the full RV". They've probably got someone cleverer than me on it though - at least I hope they have, if they want to win!

 

[covcity4life]

Now, but "your" club is. For me anything to do with Coventry City is "we". My team Coventry City is getting a rebate, so it's "we". My team are selling a player so "we" will get a fee - not me personally mind, I won't have a slice. Obviously, not for you. Fair enough.

he doesnt unserstand torch, he joined this forum to talka bout council vs sisu not the football club.

if we ever come out of this as a club you can guarantee the council lover posters will never log on again. it will be boring to them then.

 

[ccfcway]

he doesnt unserstand torch, he joined this forum to talka bout council vs sisu not the football club.

if we ever come out of this as a club you can guarantee the council lover posters will never log on again. it will be boring to them then.

Perhaps they should start CCFC, Coventry Council Football Club ?

 

[Nick]

It does make me wonder how wound up some people get because the club haven't paid that rent money yet. It is as if Tim Fisher has personally been to their hours, punched their gran and shat on their kitchen table the way some people go on.

 

[sky blue john]

It does make me wonder how wound up some people get because the club haven't paid that rent money yet. It is as if Tim Fisher has personally been to their hours, punched their gran and shat on their kitchen table the way some people go on.

Personally i'm struggling to work out the identity of our club at the moment !!
We are playing in Northampton and Torch and Ccfc4life think its sisu, otium & Arvo they are supporting !!!

 

[ccfcway]

It does make me wonder how wound up some people get because the club haven't paid that rent money yet. It is as if Tim Fisher has personally been to their hours, punched their gran and shat on their kitchen table the way some people go on.

Surely you can see that non payment of any outstanding bills it is "one" of the reasons that CCC / ACL / whoever owns the Ricoh does not want to engage with SISU / Otium / CCFC about a return to the stadium ?

 

[martcov]

It does make me wonder how wound up some people get because the club haven't paid that rent money yet. It is as if Tim Fisher has personally been to their hours, punched their gran and shat on their kitchen table the way some people go on.

I thought we were on a rates rebate thread, not a why haven't SISU paid yet? thread.

That comes only if they don't pay by the end of the month and the football club, sorry we, are in danger of getting some form of punishment because of our owners.

 

[Godiva]

I thought we were on a rates rebate thread, not a why haven't SISU paid yet? thread.

That comes only if they don't pay by the end of the month and the football club, sorry we, are in danger of getting some form of punishment because of our owners.

But where are the money sitting atm? The money owed to ACL were part of the £1.5m Otium paid for the assets of ltd.
I would think the money is in an escrow at Mr Appelton awaiting the final liquidation of ltd.

 

[martcov]

But where are the money sitting atm? The money owed to ACL were part of the £1.5m Otium paid for the assets of ltd.
I would think the money is in an escrow at Mr Appelton awaiting the final liquidation of ltd.

I thought ML said something about not knowing the mechanisms of bank transfers when asked.

I can't believe that the club/ we wouldn't pay on time.

 

[Frisky blue]

Please provide evidence to support this statement.

Or us this just more pathetic bullshit and lies? No doubt the accountant had to pass a fitness test. Lol.

 

[Frisky blue]

Same old rubbish

 

[duffer]

But where are the money sitting atm? The money owed to ACL were part of the £1.5m Otium paid for the assets of ltd.
I would think the money is in an escrow at Mr Appelton awaiting the final liquidation of ltd.

Hi Godiva - I think this is separate to that. It wasn't money that came out of the administration as such, this is money that the FL have ordered Otium to pay as part of handing over the golden share to them. This is the sum of money ACL would've been paid had they agreed to the CVA, if I remember correctly.

As such, I'm not even sure this is a legally enforceable debt. In other words I don't think ACL could go to court for it. However, the FL could revoke the right to play in the league ultimately I suppose, if unpaid. Once the fixtures are out though, they won't do that, obviously.

 

[Frisky blue]

Good, sisu apologists like you and Grendel do spout a load of rubbish!

 

[Godiva]

Hi Godiva - I think this is separate to that. It wasn't money that came out of the administration as such, this is money that the FL have ordered Otium to pay as part of handing over the golden share to them. This is the sum of money ACL would've been paid had they agreed to the CVA, if I remember correctly.

As such, I'm not even sure this is a legally enforceable debt. In other words I don't think ACL could go to court for it. However, the FL could revoke the right to play in the league ultimately I suppose, if unpaid. Once the fixtures are out though, they won't do that, obviously.

My God it's long time ago - the administration! Back then I was quite confident I had a grasp of the essentials, but my memories are failing me now.
Didn't the price of £1.5m include some £590t (give or take some thousands) to ACL? If so, then Otium will surely have to find the remaining from their own accounts.
I speculated back then that the bid was constructed to make sure ACL would receive what they were owed. That's why the bid wasn't £1m or £2m but this kind of strange number.
The problem could be if Appelton's bill exceeds the expected amount as he has first priority.

Still I would expect the majority of the money to ACL is sitting in Mr Appelton's account.

 

[covmark]

Good, sisu apologists like you and Grendel do spout a load of rubbish!

Whereas your posts are thoughtful and full of intelligence.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

It does make me wonder how wound up some people get because the club haven't paid that rent money yet. It is as if Tim Fisher has personally been to their hours, punched their gran and shat on their kitchen table the way some people go on.

No him and his cronies came to my club punched it, kicked it,fucked it and then shat on it!

 

[skybluetony176]

No him and his cronies came to my club punched it, kicked it,fucked it and then shat on it!

But the council made them do it BHSB ;-)