Court Match Thread

Discussion in 'Coventry City General Chat' started by Nick, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    Hard to disagree with CD

    Only comment I have is that the Dann & Fox sales were in the 2010 accounts. The following year (2011 accounts) the debt to SISU went up by £7.6m. Ranson resigned March 2011. So were they not prepared to fund further, it seems they did, or was it that Ranson expected too much and failed to spend wisely? Operating losses in 2011 were £7m before interest depreciation amortisation and a £6m write down of goodwill created on takeover
     
  2. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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  3. RoboCCFC90

    RoboCCFC90 Well-Known Member

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    According to the Observer, SISU will "consider an appeal"
     
  4. Warwickhunt

    Warwickhunt Well-Known Member

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  5. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what people are arguing about either to be honest. I was just pointing out that it wasn't something a journalist made up which is what was being suggested it was a quote from an official of the club about the takeover. Whether you choose to believe it or not is a different matter although there does seem to be clarification from Ransom that includes more than just a transfer kitty given who we're dealing with still doesn't necessarily make it correct.
     
  6. Sky Blue Kid

    Sky Blue Kid Well-Known Member

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    Ranson didn't sell Dann and Fox, SISU board out voted him and sold both players. If you are going to point fingers, at least get facts right first.
     
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  7. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    Not unless they are going to pay me to google "Judicial review appeal time limits" ..... otherwise I am just happy to be ahead of the game again hahaha
     
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  8. SkyBlue79

    SkyBlue79 Member

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    OSB and CD have wrapped that up pretty well. Ranson's entire plan on a footballing and club management level was unrealistic and it appears that he may have been fairly economical with the truth in the early years re ROI potential.

    In terms of the JR, does that mean SISU have seven days to respond I.e. In response to substantive JR dismissed at an oral hearing.
     
  9. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    That is how a board of directors works though. Its a joint decision and you can be out voted. But how else were they going to fund the 10m operating loss before player sales in that year that the board of directors including Ranson had sanctioned?
     
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  10. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    my reading of it is they have to appeal by Friday. The judge has already told them they have to appeal to the Court of Appeal when closed his session on Friday
     
  11. Sky Blue Kid

    Sky Blue Kid Well-Known Member

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    I know that is how a board of directors work OSB58. It is the implication of Chiefdave that it was Ranson and Ranson alone that sold the players.
     
  12. SkyBlue79

    SkyBlue79 Member

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    That's what I thought too.
     
  13. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Ranson at the time said that fox and Dann wanted to leave and had to leave. Danns wages increased five fold so he couldn't be persuaded to stay. Still we have Chris Hussey and Richard Wood who would be at least as good if not better.

    That's what he said at the time.
     
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  14. Sky Blue Kid

    Sky Blue Kid Well-Known Member

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    Dare I ask....LINK!
     
  15. Joy Division

    Joy Division Well-Known Member

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  16. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    Less Read has come back from his hols then..
     
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  17. wingy

    wingy Well-Known Member

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    Just says correspondent.
    Of course if LR is on his hols it shouldn't preclude him from putting out a statement /sorry, article given modern communication.
     
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  18. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    Still scratching his head on suitable spin I guess, notice the article was largely devoted to the SISU case & only mentioned judgement & costs towards the end.
     
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  19. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    Well started buying cheaper in transfer dews, but wages were most certainly not proportionate
    It isn't a quote.
     
  20. Sky Blue Kid

    Sky Blue Kid Well-Known Member

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  21. Sky Blue Kid

    Sky Blue Kid Well-Known Member

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  22. Sky Blue Kid

    Sky Blue Kid Well-Known Member

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    I'm not making excuses for Ranson, but there's always two sides to a story...Doing a Nick, just for balance ;)
     
  23. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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  24. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    Quite right. My mistake. Strange that it's in pretty much every news article covering the takeover though from the CET to the BBC.
     
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  25. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    I take it Les is on holiday.
    Is Tim Fisher also on holiday I didn't see any photos of him at court?
     
  26. Sub

    Sub Well-Known Member

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    Coventry City’s owners Sisu may appeal after another court defeat


    COVENTRY City’s ‘owner’ Sisu is set to appeal against a judge’s decision to refuse a High Court judicial review into the council’s Ricoh Arena sale to Wasps.

    It would see the off-field courtroom battles rumbling on in a multi-party dispute which has already lasted five years.

    London-based hedge fund Sisu claimed at the High Court in Birmingham on Friday that the council and Alan Edward Higgs Charity’s circa £19million stadium company sale in 2014 unlawfully shortchanged the taxpayer under ‘state aid’ laws by around £30million, with an uncompetitive deal.

    The court heard Sisu’s suggestions Wasps, already around £40million in debt, should pay the shortfall to the council.

    Sisu was also seeking compensation for being denied the opportunity to also bid for the stadium, built for the Sky Blues and propped up for years by the football club’s £1.4million rent.

    The ‘state aid’ claim was made on the basis that the stadium company, Arena Coventry Limited, was sold to then London Wasps Holdings Limited on a massively extended lease from 41 to 250 years.

    ACL on the new lease term had later been independently valued at nearly £50million. The £19million deal included just £1mIllion for the lease extension, £2.77million each for the council and Higgs’ charity’s shares in ACL, and paying off the council’s loan.

    But the judge, Justice Singh, rejected that claim as well as refusing a full judicial review.

    Lawyers for the Sisu group of companies told the court it was likely Sisu would at the very least consider lodging an appeal.

    A separate judicial review into an earlier Coventry City Council £14.4million taxpayer bailout of the Ricoh Arena was heard in 2014 – after a judge had initially refused to allow the hearing to take place.

    Sisu had been successful in overturning that judgment, only to lose the subsequent judicial review, an appeal, and further attempts at appeal.

    Sisu was on Friday ordered to pay £75,000 costs to the council and £20,000 ACL/Wasps. Coventry City Football Club insists its budget is not affected by the legal action.

    Labour council leader George Duggins and Conservative group opposition leader Gary Ridley said in a joint statement: “We hope that this will be the last stage of the litigation, and that Sisu will not seek permission to appeal, which would only lead to further unnecessary legal costs for all parties involved.”
     
  27. oucho

    oucho Well-Known Member

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    Ok so let's say Friday is the day by which they need to appeal...when would that appeal request be granted/declined.

    By this I do not mean 'when would the appeal be heard' but 'when would we know if it will allowed to be heard'?

    Answers on a postcard
     
  28. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

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  29. shy_tall_knight

    shy_tall_knight Well-Known Member

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    ACL on the new lease term had later been independently valued at nearly £50million. The £19million deal included just £1mIllion for the lease extension, £2.77million each for the council and Higgs’ charity’s shares in ACL, and paying off the council’s loan.

    Told you that its not the accounting purchase price that you need to consider (£5.5m) but the real purchase price £19m that was the true cost of the transaction, even SISU are using that valuation
     
  30. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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  31. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    Funny how the article doesn't allude to the KMPG valuation that was mentioned in court of £750K - £1M that was done just before the transaction. Even the judge pointed out that CCC got the higher end of the valuation. No mention of that either.
     
  32. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    No the shareholder valuation is £5.5. million. The loan is irrelevant in terms of valuation it is a charge to the business.
     
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  33. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    The article isn't written by Reid it seems, it is attributable to "Correspondent" but uses similar language used by Reid previously.

    Just to be pedantic
    - ACL has never been valued at £50m, the lease value was valued under Wasps ownership of ACL after Wasps had moved in at 48.5m and that formed part of a net value to ACL per their 2015 accounts of £19m. That however was not the value in October 2014 because Wasps were not there to bring in the incomes etc. There was no long term anchor tenant

    - The lease and its extension are actually owned in the first place by ACL 2006 Limited. The extension was sold to ACL 2006 because that company held the original lease. It is an important point in understanding for instance why a public bidding process for the lease extension was worthless and why if Wasps Holdings goes bust the lease itself remains in an entirely separate company. The only company that could have a lease extension was ACL 2006

    - ACL itself has under leases to ACL 2006

    - It has never been confirmed but I would expect Wasps Rugby to be paying or at least being charged a rent. That has important implications for the value of the ACL lease & Extension. That would not be includable in a 2014 valuation of worth to CCC or AEHC.

    - Yes ACL is owned by Wasps Holdings but legally speaking it is ACL & ACL 2006 that own the lease and its extension. Company law makes ACL a separate legal entity despite it being owned by Wasps holdings - its called the veil of incorporation

    - The lease is security for the Bonds. Not all group companies provide security for the bond, for example IEC Experience doesn't and that is owned by ACL (76%)

    - Prior to the sale Wasps Group had long term loans of 10.75m and ACL 14.1m = 24.85m plus other exterior loans to wasps of 3m = 27.85m

    - the bond issue was £35m. That enabled replacement of the ACL 14.1m, in addition 3.4m was used to pay the first 3 interest instalments, and £7.5m was spent on fixed assets, 3m used to pay off other finance commitments. - Yes they created a bond but it didn't increase overall debt by £35m. the increase in debt was around 16m the increase in fixed assets at the same time after the first revaluation was 35.1m

    - Yes the structured debt is 35m with a further 9m owed to the owner (total £44m) but against that are substantial assets (with the new lease valuation fixed assets alone could well be over £75m). So there is some security to the "indebted Wasps" debt

    - Wasps paid £5.54m for ACL. The CCC loan existed at the same amount before & after that sale. The share price of ACL reflected the inclusion of the loan. Claims of having paid £20m seem complete nonsense to me.

    - Didn't Seppala get quoted as saying she wouldn't interfere with the CCC share sale, so how does she claim she was denied the opportunity after 7 years owning CCFC

    I assume the purpose of the tone of the article is a heads up that they will appeal because they feel hard done by. Got to be done this week I believe
     
  34. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    I wonder, although perhaps giving SISU too much credit, if the idea here is not to win the case particularly but to shine a light on the current valuation of the lease. If KMPG valued it at £600K - 1m that contrasts sharply to the value Wasps currently place on it. If that current value gets queried given that it is security for the bonds could that not be an issue?
    What did KMPG actually value? It reads to me like they've valued the freehold with the existing lease in place. That would be worth little as with the lease in place for the next 40 years how do you generate any income? The councils own funding document for the Ricoh build acknowledges that stating that the value of the freehold will rise as the lease draws to a close.
     
  35. Sub

    Sub Well-Known Member

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    Oldskyblue58 do you think they have a chance of getting a appeal through and if they do you think they can win or have any grounds to entitle them to compensation ?
     

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