torchomatic
Well-Known Member
YEah same with what I do now there are only two areas. Jumping through hoops again!
court papers explained (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter covkid69
- Start date
James Smith
Well-Known Member
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Yeah 2 into 3 doesn't go, does is? Ultimately we're all toast thanks to the Integrated Vision though. Thought this for a long time, KEN just confirmed it. Plus all those free staff they're recruiting...
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
we need to remember that any kind of audit or court action will be based solely around what is or isn't legal (if legal is the right term when referring to state aid). As long as SISU have acted legally, even if they have massively bent the rules, they're fine. What's right morally or ethically won't come in to it.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Do you mean the Council?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Just to take it a little further......
Mr Allvey as chairman of aCL would have been aware of (a) the financial state of ACL (b) any collusion to paint a distressed picture to Yorkshire bank. I am not sure he left on the best of terms so doubt he would do ACL any favours. I would also think that if he was aware of any"plan" he may well make his fellow Board members at Yorkshire bank aware of it or at least recommend looking closer due to confidentiality agreements ....... so compromising any notion of settling the loan for 2m to 5m....... he has a duty to act in the best interests of Yorkshire Bank after all doesn't he from August 2012 onwards :thinking about:
not to mention the two firms of accountants that were arguing about how long ACL could remain viable ........
but of course SISU could be entirely right in their assertions...........
The plan capsized at some point, and it could seem the former ACL chairman did it.
A pity actually, if he hadn't ACL would have cut their debts considerably more than now, Higgs would have sold their shares at the price they want and the club would pay a low rent, have access to all arena income streams, own 50% of ACL, still have Robins as manager and we could all be talking about the upcoming playoff matches.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
I think you are looking at it from a different way to me.
That's good - it's a forum. I think different views are welcome here.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If it had happened and I was Sisu I would have taken any of the monies available as management fees
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Not doing ACL any favours is probably why the council had to pay £14million for the loan.
I've not read all pages so apologies if this is repeating what someone else has said, however, why on earth would Yorkshire write off a substantial amount of debt when the asset in which they have security over is potentially worth significantly more than 14m ? I presume the debt was secured over the ground, if so they could have appointed an LPA receiver and sold the ground for substantially more than 14m, thereby repaying their debt in full.
Just doesn't make sense. So can't believe it
Ps bullying businesses into writing off debt sounds more like the actions of a hedge fund than a business co owned by the council and a charity trust ! But hey, what do I know !
Just doesn't make sense. So can't believe it
Ps bullying businesses into writing off debt sounds more like the actions of a hedge fund than a business co owned by the council and a charity trust ! But hey, what do I know !
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
:thinking about:
No it's not a person, but the person who did tell us is probably even worse than that turd. If that's possible.
Hav'nt read the Entire thread so forgive but i'm getting the drift that one party was trying to persuade another party to Act in a Fruadulant mannner ,now thats illegal is'nt it ,couldit possibly be true.
Furthermore this out there far fetched assertion seems far too incredible to hook a Judge .Surely a more plausible basis of complaint would be that CCC/ACL/HOFF ELLIOT Haskel have all been plotting to cut SISU out of the equation.
:thinking about:
Furthermore this out there far fetched assertion seems far too incredible to hook a Judge .Surely a more plausible basis of complaint would be that CCC/ACL/HOFF ELLIOT Haskel have all been plotting to cut SISU out of the equation.
:thinking about:
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Another SISU employee makes his debut..
Hav'nt read the Entire thread so forgive but i'm getting the drift that one party was trying to persuade another party to Act in a Fruadulant mannner ,now thats illegal is'nt it ,couldit possibly be true.
Furthermore this out there far fetched assertion seems far too incredible to hook a Judge .Surely a more plausible basis of complaint would be that CCC/ACL/HOFF ELLIOT Haskel have all been plotting to cut SISU out of the equation.
According to the documents filed at the court, sisu claim they were planning it together. As sisu have 'some' experience with how the court works I would think they have some evidence to back their claim.
Would it be fruadulent? I don't think it would, but I am no expert in criminal law. Maybe a lawyer on here could give his opinion? Surely sisu would know, and if it was criminal why tell the court?
If there is any basis in truth here Godiva Its all round appalling ,surely it could be ajudged as an attempt to defruad Yorkshire Bank.
I fail to see why it couldn't be true - filing claims to the courts are not childsplay. It is serious. If they can present enough evidence to convince a judge is another matter.
As I said I am no expert in criminal law, but I don't think it is fraud. Why would they publicise it if they thought it was? I mean, if the judge don't agree that CCC/ACL were involved they would risk standing alone to face the consequences.
See what I mean?
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
I can't see how it can be true. It sounds like complete and under bullcrap. There's a zillion reason's why.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Like last time where the judge wanted to call Joy a liar but called every other softer name for it. Yes she really suffered that day.
There are one or two timelines of things we know,like it was stated that Higgs had agreed with SISU to do due diligence around the middle of July ,I think I posted on here the 60 days were
up middle of September,yet it was during this spell that this plan was concocted. :thinking about:
up middle of September,yet it was during this spell that this plan was concocted. :thinking about:
I know, it's hard to believe.
If this is true it would suggest why negotiations on lower rent etc dragged on when they seemed extremly close to an agreement - the agreement shouldn't happen until sisu had bought the mortgage.
It could also suggest that all the public bickering was made up to give the impression of two parties that would never agree a deal.
And all the rubbish about moving away and build a new stadium was more pretense to put pressure on Yorkshire Bank.
But as OSB said, when the ACL chairman resigned and got a position at Yorkshire Bank the plan capsized.
What I really want to know is: How good friends are they today? Have they produced a plan B and excercising it right now?
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
There are much more believable conspiracies about JFK and 911, frankly.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Bizarre from somebody who was a fully paid-up Sisu supporter on GMK.
More reinventions than David Bowie in here.
cloughie
Well-Known Member
and if that is the real reason they paid £14 million then the sisu case is lost as they are claiming the council paid over the odds to buy the mortgage
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Whichever way, it doesn't put anybody in a good light really.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Rent negotiations failed as Fisher had a mandate not to agree anything if it meant the club would still make a loss and SISU have to put more in. No mystery there.
SkyBlueSwiss
New Member
Your post assumes that what SISU have said is true. There is at least as much chance that this is just another pack of SISU lies (just as they lied to the courts in the KPMG case) as any chance that there might be an element of truth to their submission.
Before "laughing" let's wait and see what the various judges in different courts have to say, as well as the football league and the football association.
And maybe even the administrator, irrespective of any potential bias towards SISU, who appointed him.
At this time not one of us can know what the truth of the matter is, but going on past actions I tend to believe that SISU have acted against the interests of our club, have by their own admission made appalling mistakes that resulted in us getting relegated, have created a complex group structure that may have been used to circumvent football league/association rules and which may yet get our club into a lot of trouble in the future, have aparantly admitted that they were complicit in deliberately stressing a company they contractually owed money to in order to (legally or illegally, but certainly immorally) get an important asset on the cheap for their own ends etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum.
Based on their past actions both before they became owners of CCFC and after they became owners, I fail to see how anyone can support SISU or want them to continue to be part of our poor club in any way whatever.
People like this do not belong in football, and I don't want them to continue having anything to do with the club I support.
What ACL, Higgs or CCC may or may not have done is totally irrelevant to the fact that I believe SISU have been and are and will continue to be a disaster for our club and need to go as quickly as possible.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Whilst i agree that Sisu have been a disaster and should never have been involved in the club, I can't believe that you can totally disregard any actions by ACL, Higgs or the Council if found true.
The whole "moral highground" stuff is just bollocks if it doesn't equally apply.
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So basically sisus are trying to say that acl had a faustian pact with sisu, whereby sisu refused to pay the rent, thereby distressing ACL, and thereby trying to get the mortgage on the cheap for SiSU. Is this REALLY their defence? Are they for real?
For a start, Yorkshire Bank aren't exactly a small concern, and no doubt when they found out sisu weren't paying the rent and thus causing financial distress do you honestly believe no one would smell a rat if sisu then came in to buy the mortgage on the cheap?
And STILL people buy into the sisu crap! For a start, there is NO WAY Yorkshire Bank would sell on if they have such an asset as collateral. For a start they would call in the administrators, and They - YORKSHIRE Bank would most likely assign a creditor for them. It's beyond belief that someone would make this shite up; what gets me there are cretins out there like a certain local media people who seem to have heard these rumours and accepted them as gospel - without ANY evidence whatsoever.
For a start IF this deal HAD been set up, and the council discussed there MUST be minutes of any council meeting - it will be PUBLIC RECORD! Have sisu produced this evidence - have they even alluded to it?
And then the local rag's political editor tries a hatchet job, claiming startling revalations that basically refer to a document based from what was mentioned SOLELY on heresay evidence. Evidence that only sisu has access to BTW.
Sure its possible this happened, but it is also possible that the aluminati rule the world - but is it realistic?
For a start, Yorkshire Bank aren't exactly a small concern, and no doubt when they found out sisu weren't paying the rent and thus causing financial distress do you honestly believe no one would smell a rat if sisu then came in to buy the mortgage on the cheap?
And STILL people buy into the sisu crap! For a start, there is NO WAY Yorkshire Bank would sell on if they have such an asset as collateral. For a start they would call in the administrators, and They - YORKSHIRE Bank would most likely assign a creditor for them. It's beyond belief that someone would make this shite up; what gets me there are cretins out there like a certain local media people who seem to have heard these rumours and accepted them as gospel - without ANY evidence whatsoever.
For a start IF this deal HAD been set up, and the council discussed there MUST be minutes of any council meeting - it will be PUBLIC RECORD! Have sisu produced this evidence - have they even alluded to it?
And then the local rag's political editor tries a hatchet job, claiming startling revalations that basically refer to a document based from what was mentioned SOLELY on heresay evidence. Evidence that only sisu has access to BTW.
Sure its possible this happened, but it is also possible that the aluminati rule the world - but is it realistic?
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
You won't get me on that score, which is why I get annoyed when you try to create the impression that it's the case for everyone who's opposed to SISU! But I do like Bowie. Who doesn't?
Having just re-watched Michael Clayton, can I propose Tilda Swinton to play Joy in SISU: The Movie? Clayton's line to her at the end was very appropriate: "For such a smart person, you really are lost, aren't you?"
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
PSGM, you're as hit and miss as a BBC sketch show, but your "hits" are well worth the wait
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Not everybody, Ashdown always very suspicious too, Tommy Atkins predicted pretty much spot on the likely outcome years ago of their ownership(yet gets derided as a Sisu worshipper).
There are a few though that just follow the crowd and as soon as it starts going the other way change sides very quickly, like Italians in a war.
Always tried to use rational arguments, which is why when it was majority pro-Sisu everywhere i was shouted down, and now it's majority anti-Sisu still shouted down(generally by the same people who were fanatically pro before).
There's a herd/mob mentality that is quite distasteful and that doesn't allow any argument that doesn't meet the consensus.