Coventry avoid squad crisis.... (1 Viewer)

torchomatic said:

Actually, i think a lot of fans are optimistic over our chances this season. Fans wanted new players and we've had ten. Time to change the record and get behind the team.

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I has doing just great full as the next man with optimism for the next season - then we have all this shite shovelled on us just as we are about to get started....

Were there not clauses in player contracts that would specify percentage cuts in wages/bonuses on relegation? This should of been something that was in place after the last game of last season, not days before the start of the new and day of a cup game.

skyblueman said:

I have no problem whatsoever with the new contracts for new players that makes perfect sense to me - what I object to is the bullying of players on existing contracts - contracts which were put in place under SISU's ownership - it's completely unfair to the individual - if you can agree a new contract with them then fine do it in a constructive way - if not accept that you are bound by the original contract and work with it - same applies to the rent argument

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If the club cant afford these 'rebel' players then we should cash in on them. It shows in 2 instances they are not good for the club. Firstly they only care about money and secondly they arent motivated by winning. All our new signings are happy to accept these conditions its only a minority of last seasons wasters who are complaining.As far as i read they are negotiating with players to reach agreement which doesnt sound like an ultimatum to me anyway.

Nothing's been shovelled on you, unless you happen to be one of the players.

skyblueman said:

I has doing just great full as the next man with optimism for the next season - then we have all this shite shovelled on us just as we are about to get started....

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skyblueman said:

EXACTLY my point - SIGN the new contract on our terms or you don't play and you're out - THANKS BULLYING and THAT's constructive dismissal which is not only unfair but it's ILLEGAL

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We're forcing them because we can't AFFORD to keep these players and why would we play, essentially, contract rebels? People who want to DAMAGE OUR CLUB by not agreeing to this!? Are you with the club or players?

Obviously it isn't illegal because the players could go to the PFA!

Maybe he's supports AC Lilan.

Grendel said:

Good for you - where do we get our ACL Kit from so we can go and support them - what division are they in?

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I don't see how it's bullying. Not any more than the 'sign an extension or we'll sell you' situation with Keogh anyway.

SkyBlue_Taylor said:

We're forcing them because we can't AFFORD to keep these players and why would we play, essentially, contract rebels? People who want to DAMAGE OUR CLUB by not agreeing to this!? Are you with the club or players?

Obviously it isn't illegal because the players could go to the PFA!

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If you refused to play a player who refused to sign a contract on different terms to the one they already had that would be unfair

torchomatic said:

Nothing's been shovelled on you, unless you happen to be one of the players.

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So you're OK with the club being sued then?

thechase said:

If the club cant afford these 'rebel' players then we should cash in on them. It shows in 2 instances they are not good for the club. Firstly they only care about money and secondly they arent motivated by winning. All our new signings are happy to accept these conditions its only a minority of last seasons wasters who are complaining.As far as i read they are negotiating with players to reach agreement which doesnt sound like an ultimatum to me anyway.

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The new players had contacts with all this in in from day one so no issue there - they knew the terms up front

The other players on older contracts - all SISU contracts by the way - signed on those terms - that's fair enough

Who is going to want to sign for us going forward if they can't trust the contract they are originally given?

Name one player who is suing the club? Similarly, are you happy to pay under performing players a share of £1M? Did they deserve it? Are you happy for the club to live beyond its means?

skyblueman said:

So you're OK with the club being sued then?

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torchomatic said:

Name one player who is suing the club? Similarly, are you happy to pay under performing players a share of £1M? Did they deserve it? Are you happy for the club to live beyond its means?

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Come on play fair, how can Carl get SKY HD if he doesn't get his bonus - I mean it must be hard living on his basic.

skyblueman said:

The new players had contacts with all this in in from day one so no issue there - they knew the terms up front

The other players on older contracts - all SISU contracts by the way - signed on those terms - that's fair enough

Who is going to want to sign for us going forward if they can't trust the contract they are originally given?

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all new signings had this already written into their contracts

it seems some fans want sisu to run us into the ground just so they can continue hating.

ACL is suing the club now over a breach of contract
No players suing that we know of - maybe there will be a tribunal in the future - who knows - if one player refuses to sign and gets benched then yes expect it
Am I happy with them getting a share of £1M? NO
Did they deserve it? NO
Am I happy for the club to live beyond it's means? NO

skyblueman said:

If you refused to play a player who refused to sign a contract on different terms to the one they already had that would be unfair

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You've made this up though? :thinking about:

The debate is sign new terms or go on the transfer list. Nowhere does it say that their current contracts would not be fulfilled.

Yeah, I kind of agree with this. On one hand some on here slag off Portsmouth and say they deserve it, etc etc and on the other seem to want us to spend money we don't have.

covcity4life said:

it seems some fans want sisu to run us into the ground just so they can continue hating.

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Sutty said:

You've made this up though? :thinking about:

The debate is sign new terms or go on the transfer list. Nowhere does it say that their current contracts would not be fulfilled.

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Didn't Fisher say they wouldn't play if they didn't agree?

torchomatic said:

A reminder of the lyrics for next Tuesday "ACL! ACL! ACL!"

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SISU lover!! Just what we need, a divided fanbase.

skyblueman said:

Didn't Fisher say they wouldn't play if they didn't agree?

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That's not breaching their contract though.

skyblueman said:

EXACTLY my point - SIGN the new contract on our terms or you don't play and you're out - THANKS BULLYING and THAT's constructive dismissal which is not only unfair but it's ILLEGAL

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not quite constructive dismissal, they still have a contract and will still be paid by the club on the terms of that contract unless there's more info that we haven't been given.

if we take this at face value and it is correct that for performing well they will be paid more you would query why any player would not sign. that to me would indicate a player who wasn't putting much effort in and wanted to just turn up and get paid, I would have no problem with a player like that being dropped.

chiefdave said:

not quite constructive dismissal, they still have a contract and will still be paid by the club on the terms of that contract unless there's more info that we haven't been given.

if we take this at face value and it is correct that for performing well they will be paid more you would query why any player would not sign. that to me would indicate a player who wasn't putting much effort in and wanted to just turn up and get paid, I would have no problem with a player like that being dropped.

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Depends on the terms of the contract - if they were paid bonuses for example for playing and couldn't get them because they were barred from playing that would be constructive dismissal

The Portsmouth thread is currently crapping itself... :slap:




:laugh:

Two things:

a) the word 'bullying' has various bemusing definitions on this forum

b) is CovKingChris's old man really a Sky engineer then?http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/members/1595-CovKingChris

Agree, Dave. How many posts do we read about players underperforming, 'not turning up' or being lazy?

I love how this has turned from being about SISU being people incapable of honouring a contract and bullying people into "well, our players are shite, serves them right". Exactly what SISU would have wanted! Lets see how morale is effected, shall we? If we lose the first two league games, will you all defend SISU quite so enthusiasically? No, you'll blame the players.

I know how I'd feel if I was treated this way at work: very demotivated and I'd immediately start seeking alternative employment.

We are treated like that! I've applied for my own job twice and will do it next year all over again. Still on same wage as i was in 2007.

I'm certainly not saying they are"shite", just that they have to take par trial responsibility for last season and not be rewarded for failure. Win bonuses are a more sensible approach for a club in our position.

Personally I think the bonus system was flawed in that it rewarded failure at worst mediocrity at best. It needed dealing with.

Have been saying for years that the owners needed to deal with the issue of wages and I am not going to start back tracking on that. This can be seen as a harsh and perhaps demotivating move but it was necessary if this club is to survive.

It could only have been amended by discussion and negotiation. To simply impose a wage cut or change in bonus structure would effectively be a breach of contract and in employment law constructive dismissal (have just been through similar process regarding absence/holidays and was advised by ACAS about fundamental changes to contracts). The players had the option to say no if they wanted to...... which could have been awkward all round ..... (player on full pay, not being used in a small squad and who could refuse any transfer owners might agree).

The fact that an agreement has been reached on all contracts might ruffle the players but should be commended on both sides ..... players doing something positive for the club not just the owners.

questions
1) there were last season new contracts issued to players - Bell, Baker, McSheffery, some of the academy players (Thomas Christie etc) that played in the season and then some of the academy players who really didnt feature (Henderson, Willis etc) .... say 10 or 12 players. There have been 8 new arrivals so far and more academy players added to the squad. The problem then and now is not different so why wasnt it dealt with before for the existing players. It should not have left 16 disgruntled players all in one go. Where was the planning !!
2) does the wage cut and bonus change apply to all staff/players on the football side ?
3) why leave it to the week before kick off to get it done
4) were they serious about players not agreeing being put on transfer list and not playing. what does that say to AT
5) what additional costs have been built into the budget that detract from these savings.
6) has this been part of the delay in signing some of the players?
7) what do they mean by deferring the bonuses..... if they mean they are being earnt but not paid then it becomes a valid debt at the time it was earnt and can affect the tax payment, the budget, and the FFP calculation now........ or are they saying that the bonuses only kick in if certain things like promotion happen (ie if it does then the players wages ie recalculated using the bonuses in his contract .... will affect profitability and FFP)

nothing is straight forward

A good start to the season is probably even more important now.......... not only are their financial implications but there is the squad morale at risk too.

Right move in my opinion but it was the right move in 2006 too ...... just not sure on how it was done

Nonleagueherewecome said:

I love how this has turned from being about SISU being people incapable of honouring a contract and bullying people into "well, our players are shite, serves them right". Exactly what SISU would have wanted! Lets see how morale is effected, shall we? If we lose the first two league games, will you all defend SISU quite so enthusiasically? No, you'll blame the players.

I know how I'd feel if I was treated this way at work: very demotivated and I'd immediately start seeking alternative employment.

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I agree - this really isn't the way to treat people or run our club and that essentially is my point here

torchomatic said:

I wouldn't be surprised to hear chants of "ACL! ACL! ACL!" at the Sheff Utd match.

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What have ACL got to do with it?

Nonleagueherewecome said:

I love how this has turned from being about SISU being people incapable of honouring a contract and bullying people into "well, our players are shite, serves them right". Exactly what SISU would have wanted! Lets see how morale is effected, shall we? If we lose the first two league games, will you all defend SISU quite so enthusiasically? No, you'll blame the players.

I know how I'd feel if I was treated this way at work: very demotivated and I'd immediately start seeking alternative employment.

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It's exactly how I was treated along with a few select others - you just put up and shut up in reality.

Nonleagueherewecome said:

I love how this has turned from being about SISU being people incapable of honouring a contract and bullying people into "well, our players are shite, serves them right". Exactly what SISU would have wanted! Lets see how morale is effected, shall we? If we lose the first two league games, will you all defend SISU quite so enthusiasically? No, you'll blame the players.

I know how I'd feel if I was treated this way at work: very demotivated and I'd immediately start seeking alternative employment.

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if you dont think you can perform well enough to get the bonus then the company is well shot of you though.

Cos torch is a shit stirrer dorset.

Nonleagueherewecome said:

I know how I'd feel if I was treated this way at work: very demotivated and I'd immediately start seeking alternative employment.

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If they do so we will sign players to replace them who are fit an hungry for success and weed out those who are happy to coast by being average and get a free ride

We can't have any passengers this season

What's ACL, but a second hand emotion?

skyblueman said:

Depends on the terms of the contract - if they were paid bonuses for example for playing and couldn't get them because they were barred from playing that would be constructive dismissal

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Not necessarily, it would be down to the player to prove they weren't being played for that reason.

Constructive dismissal would be allowing the player to play but then refusing to play his bonus.