Coventry City publish Accounts for Year Ended 31st May 2021 (3 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The interest charged was 7.5% or thereabouts. Yes it could be zero but where can you get a £20 odd million unsecured loan over an undefined period of time at 7.5%. You can’t.

But how many of those loans providers could get a £100m+ windfall if the performance of the organisation that they're lending to improves? Or get a return if that organisation is sold?

 

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[SAJ]

But how many of those loans providers could get a £100m+ windfall if the performance of the organisation that they're lending to improves? Or get a return if that organisation is sold?

So what are the realistic chances of that happening? Whilst in the Championship the odds are roughly 7/1 but they are stacked in favour of many others with parachute payments. Until that becomes a level playing field in reality the odds are far higher than that.
SISU are like every other business in the world looking to make a profit for their investment, unless you have billions to throw at some project and it’s loose change to you. But there aren’t many of those.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

So what are the realistic chances of that happening? Whilst in the Championship the odds are roughly 7/1 but they are stacked in favour of many others with parachute payments. Until that becomes a level playing field in reality the odds are far higher than that.
SISU are like every other business in the world looking to make a profit for their investment, unless you have billions to throw at some project and it’s loose change to you. But there aren’t many of those.

So if its all about profit why buy a football club?

 

[shmmeee]

So if its all about profit why buy a football club?

This is the fundamental question that remains unanswered after over a decade of Ownership: what’s the plan here? Why are they here?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So if its all about profit why buy a football club?

Super-high risk, super-high return if you fluke it.

Main difference is, most owners bail when it fails!

 

[SAJ]

So if its all about profit why buy a football club?

I suspect they thought it was going to be an easy investment. Get the ground in the cheap get promotion back to the Premiership then sell making a massive quick profit. Backfired dramatically now there trying to recover their losses.

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

Super-high risk, super-high return if you fluke it.

Main difference is, most owners bail when it fails!

Mel Morris

 

[SkyblueDad]

I’m not really into all this accounts business goes over my head but I read we are £28 million in debt, first question who too ? second question in the mad football finance world is that high and off putting for any would be interested party looking to buy a club or is it a bullshit total, I’ve read all sorts of time figures like £60mllion

 

[Grendel]

This is the fundamental question that remains unanswered after over a decade of Ownership: what’s the plan here? Why are they here?

Now they are in a better position

Im sure Ryton will be sold and the funds used to reward investors

then over the next few years sell players at championship valuations and offer even better investor returns

 

[Grendel]

I’m not really into all this accounts business goes over my head but I read we are £28 million in debt, first question who too ? second question in the mad football finance world is that high and off putting for any would be interested party looking to buy a club or is it a bullshit total, I’ve read all sorts of time figures like £60mllion

its owned one assumes to investors

this is why the clubs debt is unique as it’s owed to people with no interest in the club but hope to get returns

 

[oldfiver]

Now they are in a better position

Im sure Ryton will be sold and the funds used to reward investors

then over the next few years sell players at championship valuations and offer even better investor returns

Except they cannot sell without an at least equivalent replacement to the satisfaction of Sport England

 

[SkyblueDad]

I read in the past that investors with 10% or less shares don’t have to be named is that correct ? So how many are there, I think that Canadian ejit who wanted fans to text subs to the manager has more than 10% but who else is there ?

 

[Grendel]

Except they cannot sell without an at least equivalent replacement to the satisfaction of Sport England

Hence the real purpose of the discussion with Warwick University

 

[SkyblueDad]

Except they cannot sell without an at least equivalent replacement to the satisfaction of Sport England

I wouldn’t be surprised if some sort of agreement is reached with Warwick Uni on that one

 

[stupot07]

the 13.17m includes 1.1m for national insurance and 210k for pension. In 2020 the total was 6.5m national insurance 579k and pension 39k

There were 160 full time employees (2020 145) of which 13 were administrative (2020 12). So the amount paid to employees who were administrative is not going to be a big figure, major one would be Boddy followed probably by Scope. Directors were not paid anything

the amount due to team and team management i would guess at 12.5m up from approx £6m in 2020

in addition there were 225 other temporary employees (ie stewards etc) at a cost of 310k (included in the £13.17m total wage cost). Majority of stewards not used in 2021 but the cost increased from £189k to £310k . Accounting rules require any one on the payroll must be disclosed whether paid in the year or not

Would promotion bonuses be included as part of that £13m? Obviously we were promoted to the Championship at the beginning of the 2020/21 financial year, with it being confirmed on 9th June 2020.

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[oldfiver]

Hence the real purpose of the discussion with Warwick University

I doubt WU will just donate a training facilty

 

[Grendel]

I doubt WU will just donate a training facilty

I’m sure it will less than the sale of the last asset we have

 

[oldfiver]

I’m sure it will less than the sale of the last asset we have

As it is mortgaged to the hilt it is hardly a free asset

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Super-high risk, super-high return if you fluke it.

Main difference is, most owners bail when it fails!

Which was my point re: interest. If you're here for the high-risk, high return then allow everything you can to achieve that return, including foregoing high interest.

It's not like that interest is being paid regularly (some has been returned in recent years but then swallowed up in new loans to cover cash deficits). So, what's the point?

If you're going for the interest return, the club will almost certainly struggle and you'll have to put more in than you take out. If it keeps adding up you're putting off potential buyers and removing that as an exit strategy.

So it seems their strategy is based on greed and some sort of miracle occurring whereby against all the odds we get promoted on a shoestring so they can claim back all the interest they're owed, take a nice chunk of PL money and sell up for a nice profit. It's almost delusional.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

I doubt WU will just donate a training facilty

No but i'd put a decent amount of money on the fact that they'd contribute a sizeable amount to one. It'd be as beneficial to them as it would be to us.

 

[SkyblueDad]

Another boring question we are apparently £28 million in debt possibly to investors or is part of that debt to sisu in owed interest ?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

No but i'd put a decent amount of money on the fact that they'd contribute a sizeable amount to one. It'd be as beneficial to them as it would be to us.

Regardless, I'm sure it'll be in better nick that Ryton. It could do with a lot of upgrading and repair so if it is sold, I'd like to think that it's a positive as we'd be moving to better facilities elsewhere.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Regardless, I'm sure it'll be in better nick that Ryton. It could do with a lot of upgrading and repair so if it is sold, I'd like to think that it's a positive as we'd be moving to better facilities elsewhere.

Definitely a positive. Understandably a lot of nostalgia is attached to Ryton but it's incredibly tired and isn't really fit for purpose anymore as a training facility for a Championship club.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Would promotion bonuses be included as part of that £13m? Obviously we were promoted to the Championship at the beginning of the 2020/21 financial year, with it being confirmed on 9th June 2020.

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Yes is the simple answer

However going forward you have to factor in increases in annual base salaries, achievement bonuses in Championship, more expensive players coming in having bigger salaries & bonuses, increase in agents fees, etc

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Which was my point re: interest. If you're here for the high-risk, high return then allow everything you can to achieve that return, including foregoing high interest.

They did their attempt, it failed, so now it's about reclaiming whatever they can.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Another boring question we are apparently £28 million in debt possibly to investors or is part of that debt to sisu in owed interest ?

The £28m deficit on the Otium/CCFC balance sheet in 2021 is a net amount of all assets less all liabilities. Total assets are 8.7m and total liabilities £36.5m

what is owed to to the owners is in round terms £10m in capital and £11m in interest

There is a further £28m owing to investors on the SBS&L accounts but that is not secured by Otium/CCFC so stands alone

 

[oldskyblue58]

No but i'd put a decent amount of money on the fact that they'd contribute a sizeable amount to one. It'd be as beneficial to them as it would be to us.

Didnt the original press release suggest W Uni would own the site and lease to or some CCFC associated entity. That the club would build it

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

oldskyblue58 I would like to thank you for the many times you have come on here and put the accounts and other money matters in laymans terms that even an old duffer like me can understand.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The £28m deficit on the Otium/CCFC balance sheet in 2021 is a net amount of all assets less all liabilities. Total assets are 8.7m and total liabilities £36.5m

what is owed to to the owners is in round terms £10m in capital and £11m in interest

There is a further £28m owing to investors on the SBS&L accounts but that is not secured by Otium/CCFC so stands alone

So who do we owe money too and how much to each party?

i may have misunderstood - but is it 21 million to SISU -and a further 28 million to ???

I’m assuming the SBS&L debt is the debt took on initially by SISU?

 

[CovBrummie94]

Stoke’s losses are eye watering


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[SBAndy]

Stoke’s losses are eye watering


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Seem to recall that the majority of their costs are player registration amortisation which isn’t a cash expense and, as such, isn’t included in FFP.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Seem to recall that the majority of their costs are player registration amortisation which isn’t a cash expense and, as such, isn’t included in FFP.

I could be wrong but I'm not sure that's right... I thought amortisation costs are treated as an expense in club accounts and are therefore included in P&S calculations?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Stoke’s losses are eye watering


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They are but their owners have wealth that increases at a far quicker rate than that

 

[Grendel]

They are but their owners have wealth that increases at a far quicker rate than that

they also have strong emotional attachment to the club

 

[fernandopartridge]

I could be wrong but I'm not sure that's right... I thought amortisation costs are treated as an expense in club accounts and are therefore included in P&S calculations?

They must be because that's what Derby fell foul of wasn't it?