oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
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My suspicion is that if SISU stay then we will rely on youth players and picking up out of contract ones with maybe a loan or two. If GH comes in there might be some investment in buying new players but that will increase debt and probably the losses because it will all be done the same way it has always been done. QUOTE]
Agreed with the first part, but not the second: there are plenty of clubs-indeed I'd say the majority of top 2 division clubs-whose owners put money in, and don't ask for it back. For some it's ego, others it's a love of the game, others the love of the club. Around 90% of football club owners are not in it to make money-at least not directly, although raising their profile may be one way in which they do as a side-effect. Those that go into the game to make money so often lose a lot of money, and especially at the lower levels.
I am taking a bet that the monies put in are still shown as a liability on the balance sheet though NLHWC. Unless they put that money in as shares or as a gift or as income and write it off immediately then it will still be owed to them whether they ask for it not. Have said before if "investors" are really serious then put the money in as shares and link it to the value of the club. Pretty certain that doesnt happen very often - why ? because shareholders would be the last to be paid out and are not classed as football creditors.
Not disagreeing with your sentiment NLHWC - but the situation is that monies put in are generally done so on the basis that there is hope of extraction however remote. Put it in on the basis that you are definitely not going to ask for it back and the return you get is because you are successful. Loans you can demand repayment of putting the club at risk - the fact someone doesnt ask for it does not extinguish the right to demand. Shares cannot be drawn down like a loan and you cant demand money back on them, you can get income from them if profits available and you get money back by selling them to someone elseThere is a difference and thats what I mean about doing things differently.
I am taking a bet that the monies put in are still shown as a liability on the balance sheet though NLHWC. Unless they put that money in as shares or as a gift or as income and write it off immediately then it will still be owed to them whether they ask for it not. Have said before if "investors" are really serious then put the money in as shares and link it to the value of the club. Pretty certain that doesnt happen very often - why ? because shareholders would be the last to be paid out and are not classed as football creditors.
Not disagreeing with your sentiment NLHWC - but the situation is that monies put in are generally done so on the basis that there is hope of extraction however remote. Put it in on the basis that you are definitely not going to ask for it back and the return you get is because you are successful. Loans you can demand repayment of putting the club at risk - the fact someone doesnt ask for it does not extinguish the right to demand. Shares cannot be drawn down like a loan and you cant demand money back on them, you can get income from them if profits available and you get money back by selling them to someone elseThere is a difference and thats what I mean about doing things differently.
Essentially though the point I am making is that SISU are the exception, rather than the norm, in that they wanted to make easy money out of football. And guess what? They missed that gravy train. Being in the Premiership was one way to make those big bucks, but that doesn't come easy-it takes sustained investment, especially when you start from the position we were in.
SISU claimed to be here with the intention of getting the club promoted, then selling on for profit-they even had to defend themselves for being "short termist, in it just for the money" at the time-and were quite open in that, albeit via then-ally Ranson. We accepted that-if it got us promoted, we didn't care if they walk away making money! But they didn't back that plan, it failed, and the money they did put in-plus a huge load more-is now potentially a big loss to them. Only it's only their investors, and our club, that take the hit, not the faceless SISU executives.
On to what some others are saying: to make out that SISU are visionaries with a long-term plan of making the club sustainable is utter tripe. They were meant to be in-out-quick cash in under 4 years. Blame the credit crunch for that not happening if you like (although to this day, no SISU representative has ever actually confirmed that the investment plan changed due to that!). But don't try to claim this was the long term plan-this is the "No Plan B" reality they have found themselves in, not some fantastic strategy.
If you don't have a Plan B, yet are going into a business you have zero experience in, and your Plan A fails, you really do only have yourself to blame. Those SISU errors have cost this club it's status in The Championship, and could yet cost it it's future entirely. We are the one's paying for their mistakes. Their mistakes that they made trying to make money out of something they got on the cheap, and only ever saw as a cash cow. If it was a fan with dreams in his mind I could excuse it, but not these self-styled hard nosed business people with "Balls of Steel". Never.
Finally the thick twat wake's up only 40 games to late.
A recent analogy might be recent disclosures about British servicemen dying because of lack of basic equipment.
Now then was this the responsibility of the M o D or the Captain of his brigade who had to back his men and wage a war whilst carrying out orders, keep discipline, show leadership, etc. etc.??????????
Well?
Finally the thick twat wake's up only 40 games to late.
band of brothers then.....and because the previous Colonel was shot at dawn for alienating his men.
Now answer the question.
.. I think on occasion Thorn has been naive.. I think he would admit it.......
So they held him at gun point to take it?
It is a bit late to come out and say changes are needed, just sums up his tactical judgement!
No it doesn't - he doesn't mean tactically. He means financially.
I agree, people need to read the article before taking misinformed swipes
Thorn says anything to get with the fans. Last season publicly take a swipe at the prior manager with his entertaining football guff. Then throughout the season he carried on without any complaint. Now the games up it's all the owners fault. Even someone as intellectually constrained as thorn must realize sisu are the only people who would ever employ him as a manager.
Hopeless communicator, useless under pressure, zero tactical awareness. An utter disaster. Worst manager in my 40 years of following the club.
When boothroyd was here did he moan about embargos? No, he got on with it and continued a dignified silence after his sacking. When thorn goes he will squeal as he has no dignity or shame.
When he doesn't moan he's labelled a "Sisu puppet", and when he does moan he a "moaner with no dignity or shame ?
When he doesn't moan he's labelled a "Sisu puppet", and when he does moan he a "moaner with no dignity or shame ?
I don't see how that win record is proof of anything.
If you havn't got the players then you are going to struggle. Imo
I don't see how that win record is proof of anything.
If you havn't got the players then you are going to struggle. Imo
It doesn't prove his any good either but gives him an excuse to fail.
Correct, stats mean fook all in football....just ignore the league table...:facepalm:
But thats two different things there isnt it LBB ?
An example for you to show my thinking behind it would be,
If Alex Ferguson was our manager for a season, he wouldn't get the same win record that he would have at
U, so would that mean that he isnt as good a manager anymore ? :thinking about:
But hey lets not get carried away here, Its all Thorns fault
and he is the worst manager we have ever had blah blah blah ....
But thats two different things there isnt it LBB ?
An example for you to show my thinking behind it would be,
If Alex Ferguson was our manager for a season, he wouldn't get the same win record that he would have at Man U, so would that mean that he isnt as good a manager anymore ? :thinking about:
But hey lets not get carried away here, Its all Thorns fault and he is the worst manager we have ever had blah blah blah ....
We've lasted this long because the division is so poor...another reason why our impending relegation is so disappointing.
We've lasted this long because the division is so poor...another reason why our impending relegation is so disappointing.
I canoot knock Thorne, he is a decent and honest man, maybe not the greates Manager but he was put in a no win situation. If you want to blame anyone its his assistants (who are Managers) and SUSU themselves, they put him in the job.
No one says it is all his fault. Do you blame him at all?
No question for me that Thorn has made mistakes this season that have cost us points.
But no more than what ever manager we can attract would.
Bottom line for us being where we are is Sisu and not the manager.
Thats my view.
Read my posts, gaz....I blame SISU, and have never blamed AT for everything...but he has to take some of the blame...and he fails to recognise this...that is the issue....but let's not get realistic....Thorn is blameless and is the main man blah blah blah blah....
Read my posts, gaz....I blame SISU, and have never blamed AT for everything...but he has to take some of the blame...and he fails to recognise this...that is the issue....but let's not get realistic....Thorn is blameless and is the main man blah blah blah blah....
We will end up 3 or 4 points short. The idea that a manager could not have improved on that is ridiculous. I've just e mailed a mate of mine who supports hull and asked him to look at this. He reckons we are the only club who had fans that would still give thorn hero status. He's right.
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