Current best 11 (4 Viewers)

Deleted member 11652 · Jul 4, 2021

DannyThomas_1981 said:
I'm not being negative. I just said I'm not writing him off at all - right? It's tricky for any young player adjusting to the Champ and looking forward to seeing what he can do this season.

I think he’s absolutely class tbh. An absolute steal at £750k

procdoc · Jul 4, 2021

Boosh said:
I think he’s absolutely class tbh. An absolute steal at £750k

He’ll be worth treble that this time next year

Deleted member 11652 · Jul 4, 2021

procdoc said:
He’ll be worth treble that this time next year

I agree. It’s a shame we have negative posters on here like @DannyThomas_1981 that would rather criticise him than give him the credit he deserves

SBT · Jul 4, 2021

ptr said:
Lot of people have gone for Reid at left back. I think we may see Brandon Mason a bit in the friendlies. Forgotten Man.

I doubt Mason has a future here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a better option at LWB than Reid.

Irish Sky Blue · Jul 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
Again you’re talking about “influence” and not actual footballing ability. Kelly was great in L1/2. Last season he looked out of his depth most games.

Stats are all in Sheafs favour pretty much. Played almost the same amount of minutes (Sheaf played 200 more). Sheaf passing is miles ahead of Kelly’s in success rate, his tackle success is slightly lower but he made about 50% more attempts in about the same minutes. He’s a lot younger as well.

I’ve nothing against Kelly. He’s been a great captain and dragged us up from L2. But you’ve got to be ruthless about ability and we will have to find leadership from elsewhere if we want to progress.

And Kelly’s PPG are entirely down to playing while Sheaf was injured during our last run of games where we had our strikers back and everyone in the team clearly stepped up a level. Sheaf played in the first half of the season while everyone players and managers were adapting.

I think Kelly's two spells back in the team after his injuries were a major factor in us staying up so comfortably. We were visably a better team when he played. Obviously stats play an increasingly important role in today's game. Thankfully they haven't replaced the idea of forming opinions on what you can actually see.
I don't think he looked out of his depth at all. I felt he was a major influence (there's that word again) on how we played and on his team mates. He is always available to receive a pass, no matter how tight the situation, usually he does something constructive once he has the ball.
I've nothing against Sheaf and I hope he can grow from last season. I felt his influence on games (using my eyes, and not relying on stats) was far less positive than Kelly's. He also made some really bad errors that put us under pressure and cost us goals. I think that's why confirmation of him as our player has received a mixed reaction.
For someone basing their argument on stats, I had to smile when you simply dismissed the really crucial stat (the vastly improved points per game with Kelly in the team) as simply being down to having all the strikers fit at the end of the season. (presumably including Biamou who you didn't rate) You ignore the chunk of games Kelly played in before Christmas when we were struggling for strikers and when our PPG was again greatly improved. The big thing with Kelly is that Robins obviously rates him and can see that he does things that you obviously don't appreciate. Robins, as we all know, is ruthless and shows no sentiment to players who have performed in the past but are now deemed not to be up to the required standard. If Kelly struggled last season at Championship level, why has Robins rewarded his ineptitude with another two years?

larry_david · Jul 4, 2021

Kelly was really hitting his stride which ended at Wycombe with an injury he almost certainly aggravated further by staying on (and scoring) for the team. He was all smiles after the game and playing it down but he knew he was out for 2-3 months because he gave his body for the team.

He's also a notorious slow starter after injury and I feel 2 months out, with us constantly playing meant he was playing catch up from miles behind hence why when he came back we didn't see the best of him.

I'm a huge Kelly fan. This season will be his last as a first team influence, I have to accept that and Kelly probably knows it, but he will play a big part this year either influence, leadership or body on the line. Kelly vs sheaf is an argument to be had as the season goes on. Sheaf has alot of improving to do to be consistent. I believe he can do it.

SlowerThanPlatt · Jul 4, 2021

Irish Sky Blue said:
I think Kelly's two spells back in the team after his injuries were a major factor in us staying up so comfortably. We were visably a better team when he played. Obviously stats play an increasingly important role in today's game. Thankfully they haven't replaced the idea of forming opinions on what you can actually see.
I don't think he looked out of his depth at all. I felt he was a major influence (there's that word again) on how we played and on his team mates. He is always available to receive a pass, no matter how tight the situation, usually he does something constructive once he has the ball.
I've nothing against Sheaf and I hope he can grow from last season. I felt his influence on games (using my eyes, and not relying on stats) was far less positive than Kelly's. He also made some really bad errors that put us under pressure and cost us goals. I think that's why confirmation of him as our player has received a mixed reaction.
For someone basing their argument on stats, I had to smile when you simply dismissed the really crucial stat (the vastly improved points per game with Kelly in the team) as simply being down to having all the strikers fit at the end of the season. (presumably including Biamou who you didn't rate) You ignore the chunk of games Kelly played in before Christmas when we were struggling for strikers and when our PPG was again greatly improved. The big thing with Kelly is that Robins obviously rates him and can see that he does things that you obviously don't appreciate. Robins, as we all know, is ruthless and shows no sentiment to players who have performed in the past but are now deemed not to be up to the required standard. If Kelly struggled last season at Championship level, why has Robins rewarded his ineptitude with another two years?

I do enjoy your posts but could we have some paragraphs?

shmmeee · Jul 4, 2021

Sorry don’t see it with Kelly. He’s fine in a scrap but there were games he was just awful last season. His use of the ball was mostly hit and hope and most plaudits seemed to be interceptions and blocks in the area when our backs are against the wall. He gives the ball away far more than Sheaf, that’s just a fact. Sheaf made one bad mistake early and after that everyone was on him for any pass that wasn’t perfect. The scapegoating he gets on here is ridiculous. Someone saying it was his fault we conceded because he gave the ball away three minutes earlier in the opponents half, every misplaced pass (of which there were significantly less than most) was another excuse for a two minute hate.

Kelly has done very well and I get his cult status but he’s never going to be more than a top L1 player. Be realistic.

PPG is a team stat FFS. Claiming it’s all down to one average player is ludicrous.

JFC the lengths some go to when you don’t rate their favourite player.

Garryb80 · Jul 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
Sorry don’t see it with Kelly. He’s fine in a scrap but there were games he was just awful last season. His use of the ball was mostly hit and hope and most plaudits seemed to be interceptions and blocks in the area when our backs are against the wall. He gives the ball away far more than Sheaf, that’s just a fact. Sheaf made one bad mistake early and after that everyone was on him for any pass that wasn’t perfect. The scapegoating he gets on here is ridiculous. Someone saying it was his fault we conceded because he gave the ball away three minutes earlier in the opponents half, every misplaced pass (of which there were significantly less than most) was another excuse for a two minute hate.

Kelly has done very well and I get his cult status but he’s never going to be more than a top L1 player. Be realistic.

PPG is a team stat FFS. Claiming it’s all down to one average player is ludicrous.

JFC the lengths some go to when you don’t rate their favourite player.

For someone who likes facts and stats you seem to ignore the ones that don't suit your opinion. I agree with your sheaf analysis but kelly is pivotal to this team and it looks so much better with him in it

Irish Sky Blue · Jul 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
Sorry don’t see it with Kelly. He’s fine in a scrap but there were games he was just awful last season. His use of the ball was mostly hit and hope and most plaudits seemed to be interceptions and blocks in the area when our backs are against the wall. He gives the ball away far more than Sheaf, that’s just a fact. Sheaf made one bad mistake early and after that everyone was on him for any pass that wasn’t perfect. The scapegoating he gets on here is ridiculous. Someone saying it was his fault we conceded because he gave the ball away three minutes earlier in the opponents half, every misplaced pass (of which there were significantly less than most) was another excuse for a two minute hate.

Kelly has done very well and I get his cult status but he’s never going to be more than a top L1 player. Be realistic.

PPG is a team stat FFS. Claiming it’s all down to one average player is ludicrous.

JFC the lengths some go to when you don’t rate their favourite player.

Why does Robins see things so differently from you?

NortonSkyBlue · Jul 5, 2021

shmmeee said:
Sorry don’t see it with Kelly. He’s fine in a scrap but there were games he was just awful last season. His use of the ball was mostly hit and hope and most plaudits seemed to be interceptions and blocks in the area when our backs are against the wall. He gives the ball away far more than Sheaf, that’s just a fact. Sheaf made one bad mistake early and after that everyone was on him for any pass that wasn’t perfect. The scapegoating he gets on here is ridiculous. Someone saying it was his fault we conceded because he gave the ball away three minutes earlier in the opponents half, every misplaced pass (of which there were significantly less than most) was another excuse for a two minute hate.

Kelly has done very well and I get his cult status but he’s never going to be more than a top L1 player. Be realistic.

PPG is a team stat FFS. Claiming it’s all down to one average player is ludicrous.

JFC the lengths some go to when you don’t rate their favourite player.

Cult status? I am pleased that Sheaf has signed and wish him the best, as I would any Coventry City player and although I had a wall of Coventry City player posters in the early 70's( who didn't I hear you say?) my days of fawning over any player are over and I tend to base my opinions on what I see on match day.
Kelly obviously has his detractors and I can agree with you he was poor in some games last season but that doesn't alter than when he played we garnered more points than in his absence. Kelly proved to me that he is a talisman and that he was worthy of a place in a lower mid table Championship side, I hope he can go on a show he is a leader of a play off chasing side, one that may feature Sheaf. Nothing would give me more pleasure and I am sure you would delighted if he changes your opinion too.

Grendel · Jul 5, 2021

riyadhskyblue said:
Sheaf is better than Kelly? Its an opinion I guess.

Of course he is - it’s not even a debate

Grendel · Jul 5, 2021

Irish Sky Blue said:
Why does Robins see things so differently from you?

if reports are correct he’s paid £750 grand for sheaf I don’t think he’s pay that for Kelly

NortonSkyBlue · Jul 5, 2021

Grendel said:
Of course he is - it’s not even a debate

Like your taxi for Robins.....
Anyhow if its not even a debate I will bow out and appreciate our captain's efforts whilst hopefully being dazzled by Sheaf and his superior performances in a Sky Blue shirt.

shmmeee · Jul 5, 2021

Irish Sky Blue said:
Why does Robins see things so differently from you?

I don’t think he does. Sheaf was signed as Kelly’s replacement. And Sheaf played more minutes than Kelly last season. Both were unused subs 7 times.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jul 5, 2021

I’ve argued sheaf’s case loads on here. I’d say that he’s a different type of player than Kelly. Our midfielders are expected to do more. Kelly makes the team better because he’s good at sitting in front of the defence and breaking up play.

but that’s all he does, Kelly doesn’t advance play like Sheaf tries to, Sheaf is a far more dynamic player. As soon as he learns to break up play like Kelly, he’ll be a far more influential player.

Sheaf never recovered from the rumours he wanted first team Guarentees, and didn’t want to come

CDK · Jul 5, 2021

Kelly or sheaf sheaf long term ,Kelly think when he plays he knows his job screening the defence and notice the difference when he's not there because the team pick up around him and he's an infectious pick me up on rest of the team who tend to lift there games.
And if sheaf can take some of that know how and keep improving on all areas of his game then sheaf will be a hell of a player,but think he has to understand the whole game the phscy and with the ball on the pitch.

stevefloyd · Jul 5, 2021

I expected to see the blackcurrent in the top ten

TomS91 · Jul 5, 2021

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I’ve argued sheaf’s case loads on here. I’d say that he’s a different type of player than Kelly. Our midfielders are expected to do more. Kelly makes the team better because he’s good at sitting in front of the defence and breaking up play.

but that’s all he does, Kelly doesn’t advance play like Sheaf tries to, Sheaf is a far more dynamic player. As soon as he learns to break up play like Kelly, he’ll be a far more influential player.

Sheaf never recovered from the rumours he wanted first team Guarentees, and didn’t want to come

Sheaf never recovered from being off the pace first couple of games. He was ponderous in those games but once he got 3 or 4 games in he looked the part.

Same story when he came back from injury.

Obviously a slow starter but if he has a good preseason and then starts from the off he’ll be excellent.

Irish Sky Blue · Jul 6, 2021

shmmeee said:
I don’t think he does. Sheaf was signed as Kelly’s replacement. And Sheaf played more minutes than Kelly last season. Both were unused subs 7 times.

If he thought like you, that Kelly is not Championship calibre, why would he have re-signed him at all? Furthermore, why give him a two year contract? I don't see why this is Sheaf v Kelly. If Kelly isn't good enough for this division then don't keep him on, irrespective of whether we have Sheaf or anyone else.
Robins obviously sees things differently.

Irish Sky Blue · Jul 6, 2021

Grendel said:
if reports are correct he’s paid £750 grand for sheaf I don’t think he’s pay that for Kelly

One is at the start of his career, with the potential to improve and to add significant financial value, the other is coming to the end of his career with no real sell on value, mainly due to being at this stage of his career.

None of the above is the point. The question is really who added greater value to the team's performances last season. In my view, and a lot of others I think, that was Kelly.

The statement was made that Kelly did not meet the standards of this division. If that were true why did our manager who even you must admit is quite ruthless, give him two more years?

shmmeee · Jul 6, 2021

TomS91 said:
Sheaf never recovered from being off the pace first couple of games. He was ponderous in those games but once he got 3 or 4 games in he looked the part.

Same story when he came back from injury.

Obviously a slow starter but if he has a good preseason and then starts from the off he’ll be excellent.

Walsh and Dabo both started the same way.

Irish Sky Blue said:
If he thought like you, that Kelly is not Championship calibre, why would he have re-signed him at all? Furthermore, why give him a two year contract? I don't see why this is Sheaf v Kelly. If Kelly isn't good enough for this division then don't keep him on, irrespective of whether we have Sheaf or anyone else.
Robins obviously sees things differently.

Or you move him from first choice to second and keep the club captain around.

Irish Sky Blue · Jul 6, 2021

shmmeee said:
Walsh and Dabo both started the same way.

Or you move him from first choice to second and keep the club captain around.

But you would still be left paying a player for two years who is not good enough to play in our league. Do you really think Robins would do this, particularly when money is so tight?

shmmeee · Jul 6, 2021

Irish Sky Blue said:
But you would still be left paying a player for two years who is not good enough to play in our league. Do you really think Robins would do this, particularly when money is so tight?

Yes because he brings other things to the squadand will be cheap. We can’t afford to buy an entire 25 man squad.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 6, 2021

I wish we hadn't signed Sheaf just so we could have a different endless circular debate this season.

Irish Sky Blue · Jul 6, 2021

shmmeee said:
Yes because he brings other things to the squadand will be cheap. We can’t afford to buy an entire 25 man squad.

I don't think Robins would sqander two years playing salary on someone who is good at the training ground or in the dressing room but who can't perform on the pitch. (I don't think you really believe that yourself either).
Neither of us know what Kelly is on but whatever it is it would stop another player who could be a playing asset from signing.
I'll leave it there as we are starting to go around in circles. Agree to disagree.

skysblue · Jul 6, 2021

Grendel said:
Of course he is - it’s not even a debate

Kelly & James 1st choice last season, Sheaf bench warmer, last season he was poor but hopefully will improve this season.

SkyBlueMatt · Jul 6, 2021

As long as we only play 1 up front this season I think the rest pick themselves. I've missed that debate.

shmmeee · Jul 6, 2021

skysblue said:
Kelly & James 1st choice last season, Sheaf bench warmer, last season he was poor but hopefully will improve this season.

Kelly and Sheaf were both unused subs the same amount of times. Sheaf played 200 more minutes than Kelly. But yeah, “benchwarmer”.

Don’t let pesky facts get in the way of your weird vendetta against our own player guys!

skysblue · Jul 6, 2021

shmmeee said:
Kelly and Sheaf were both unused subs the same amount of times. Sheaf played 200 more minutes than Kelly. But yeah, “benchwarmer”.

Don’t let pesky facts get in the way of your weird vendetta against our own player guys!

Only because they were injured. once fit 1st choice as I stated. OK

shmmeee · Jul 6, 2021

skysblue said:
Only because they were injured. once fit 1st choice as I stated. OK

Why was he on the bench for 7 games if he was injured?

JFC just accept you’re wrong about Sheaf. It was sad enough last season with the “we aren’t really signing him” nonsense. Now we’re supposed to believe we still don’t want him despite him playing virtually every game he was fit. What do you gain here?

skysblue · Jul 6, 2021

Getting fit again! I'm allowed my opinion ... thanks.

mark82 · Jul 7, 2021

skysblue said:
Only because they were injured. once fit 1st choice as I stated. OK

Sheaf was injured for a significant period too.

Grendel · Jul 7, 2021

skysblue said:
Kelly & James 1st choice last season, Sheaf bench warmer, last season he was poor but hopefully will improve this season.

Sheaf was 1st choice until injured and played more games didn’t he?

Grendel · Jul 7, 2021

Irish Sky Blue said:
If he thought like you, that Kelly is not Championship calibre, why would he have re-signed him at all? Furthermore, why give him a two year contract? I don't see why this is Sheaf v Kelly. If Kelly isn't good enough for this division then don't keep him on, irrespective of whether we have Sheaf or anyone else.
Robins obviously sees things differently.

He re-signed Bakayoko- would he do that again? No

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