December Stadium Deadline (20 Viewers)

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Why did he have to give a statement? How can be sure this statement wasn't the truth?

I thought you don't believe a word he is says, you seem to be doubting that now.

 

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[armybike]

Well you weren't posting it to agree with Godiva's point of view that the club would have took the offer Wasps had was you? You were posting it to dispute his opinion that the club would have taken the same deal.

I said -

"He could have said nothing.

The fact remains that on record Fisher has said SISU/CCFC wouldn't have agreed on the deal that Wasps were offered."

Please clarify where I'm using it as evidence.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I said -

"He could have said nothing.

The fact remains that on record Fisher has said SISU/CCFC wouldn't have agreed on the deal that Wasps were offered."

Please clarify where I'm using it as evidence.

Well you are clearly using the quote to dispute the opinion that the club would have taken the deal, as you have done again in post 627

You're so obsessed with defending CCC, ACL and Wasps you have no idea what you are saying.

 

[Grendel]

"Very generally" and "albeit informally". Happens all the time... A what if? Situation. Doesn't mean that there were continuing talks from then on.

Doesn't mean there wasn't either

http://www.therugbyblog.com/was-richardsons-wasps-takeover-just-a-step-on-the-road-to-the-ricoh

 

[armybike]

I thought you don't believe a word he is says, you seem to be doubting that now.

What are you on about? You do understand that those who tell mistruths do also sometimes tell the truth? That doesn't stop the fact I don't believe what he says, but if he makes a statement he is putting it into the public domain as the truth.

 

[Grendel]

What are you on about? You do understand that those who tell mistruths do also sometimes tell the truth? That doesn't stop the fact I don't believe what he says, but if he makes a statement he is putting it into the public domain as the truth.

Like when Nick Eastwood stated Wasps were "committed to staying in the London area" you mean?

 

[armybike]

Well you are clearly using the quote to dispute the opinion that the club would have taken the deal, as you have done again in post 627

You're so obsessed with defending CCC, ACL and Wasps you have no idea what you are saying.

It's very good of you to decide what I'm doing! Fisher said they wouldn't have taken the deal. I'm not disputing anything.

I'm fully aware of what I'm saying. Where have I defended CCC, ACL and Wasp?

 

[Ian1779]

Wasn't that £24m just to buy the rights to matchday revenue streams?

Indeed - For the life of me I can't understand why they didn't bite their hands off.

 

[Grendel]

It's very good of you to decide what I'm doing! Fisher said they wouldn't have taken the deal. I'm not disputing anything.

I'm fully aware of what I'm saying. Where have I defended CCC, ACL and Wasp?

When have you ever made a post that shows interest in CCFC?

 

[skybluetony176]

I am 100% certain there has never been any plan to build a new stadium and SISU's endgame was to get ownership of the Ricoh. Maybe to flip as a package with the club, maybe to load with debt as Wasps have done. I'm also 100% certain they wanted the stadium as cheaply as possible.

I can easily see a scenario where they believed themselves to be the owner horse in the race and it was just a matter of waiting until CCC and Higgs backed down. The majority of people were not expecting the stadium to be handed over to a rugby club from London given all the statements made about our season in Northampton.

So on that basis I conclude that if they were aware of the offer from Wasps and that they would most likely be about to lose any chance of stadium ownership they would have matched Wasps offer to both the council and Higgs.

As it turned out they didn't get the opportunity to bid on the councils share but did match Wasps offer for Higgs share.

Haven't posters on here pointed out that members of CCFC's board were showing a prospectus from Wasps some six months before the deal was done to fans in private meetings regarding the wasps (then proposed) takeover of ACL? Even then to say that they didn't know is laughable. Wasps hedge fund and our hedge fund move in the same circles. Even AL after publicly declaring that they'd listen to any reasonable offer said that they'd received more than one serious enquiry, something given what's happened you can't even claim was a bluff. They knew.

Frankly Dave you're either very naive in forming that opinion or you assume that everyone else is and you can get away with passing it of as fact.

Which only draws one of two conclusions. You either believe they would have on a gut feeling as you've provided nothing factual to back it up. Or you don't believe it but you've got to maintain your mantra of everyone else is guilty, it's everyone else's fault.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

It's very good of you to decide what I'm doing! Fisher said they wouldn't have taken the deal. I'm not disputing anything.

I'm fully aware of what I'm saying. Where have I defended CCC, ACL and Wasp?

Where haven't you defended them would be a better question.

 

[armybike]

Where haven't you defended them would be a better question.

Nice dodge!

I'll try again - where have I defended them?

 

[torchomatic]

In your previous 677 posts.

Nice dodge!

I'll try again - where have I defended them?

 

[chiefdave]

Hang on, you're changing the question now. The question was would SISU have purchased ACL if they had been made the offer to buy on the same terms as Wasps.

City’s chief executive, Tim Fisher, insists they do not regret failing to buy the Ricoh, saying they could not agree to taking it on, as Wasps have done, not only for £5.4m but with the council’s £14m loan on the stadium still to pay.

I am sure I would have publically have said the same.
Should he have admitted they had been screwed? What kind of signal would that send to their investors?

Why do you think that they would have taken the deal if it had been offered?

I explained why I thought they'd take the deal now you're talking about a prospectus.

Haven't posters on here pointed out that members of CCFC's board were showing a prospectus from Wasps some six months before the deal was done to fans in private meetings regarding the wasps (then proposed) takeover of ACL?

Care to post a copy of this prospectus that details the offer CCC have accepted from Wasps?

Which only draws one of two conclusions. You either believe they would have on a gut feeling as you've provided nothing factual to back it up. Or you don't believe it but you've got to maintain your mantra of everyone else is guilty, it's everyone else's fault.

Equally there is zero evidence to suggest that they wouldn't. Surely the fact that they submitted a bid to purchase Higgs share for the same amount Wasps offered is a fairly good indication they would have purchased at that price.

 

[armybike]

In your previous 677 posts.

Example?

 

[Grendel]

Example?

You've clearly got me on ignore but the real damning post was the sneering at CCFC only getting 11,000 and wasps being a bigger club.

No real CCFC fan would post in the way you do - pissing on the clubs heritage and the mocking style you deploy.

Why don't you crawl back to the crappy Drunken Wasps forum where you belong.

 

[italiahorse]

And how are the club going to make money?

Are they not currently having a cut of the profits on the day?
They get this without even investing in the infrastructure that provides it.
They should be working on the next deal. Hopefully they are.

In a new stadium you would need to finance and provide the facilities.

Is it better ? I don't know, but this is the sort of information we need to get from Sisu.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Have we all stopped arguing yet?

Anyway, it's conceivable that Fisher could be right that the price Wasps paid was too much. If he is, the stadium would be available cheaper next time, and this make it more viable still.

There is a precedent with various US grounds where similar declines have happened, and hindsight sees the price the local government got as actually pretty good in the end...

 

[stupot07]

Are they not currently having a cut of the profits on the day?
They get this without even investing in the infrastructure that provides it.
They should be working on the next deal. Hopefully they are.

In a new stadium you would need to finance and provide the facilities.

Is it better ? I don't know, but this is the sort of information we need to get from Sisu.

what do you think rent and matchday costs support?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Are they not currently having a cut of the profits on the day?
They get this without even investing in the infrastructure that provides it.
They should be working on the next deal. Hopefully they are.

In a new stadium you would need to finance and provide the facilities.

Is it better ? I don't know, but this is the sort of information we need to get from Sisu.

We pay rent and match day costs, this money will be used by ACL to invest in the infrastructure.

 

[italiahorse]

Dream scenario for the wasp fans on here.

Blinkered or what ?
Nobody has said thats what they want.

 

[Calista]

That formula though, wouldn't that have had us paying quite a bit more than what Wasps paid for all of it to get 50%?

You’re right, which makes it all the more galling. The terms of the buy-back formula were probably steep, but that was a natural consequence of the Council and Higgs having to bail out CCFC’s project in the first place. And when SISU took over, surely that formula was part of the overall deal they knowingly signed up to, along with the high rent.

I really wanted the club to buy at least a share of the stadium. In effect we could have at least halved the rent burden, because we would have been paying it to our owners. But Ranson always seemed so relaxed about it, saying we could do it later. Maybe he believed his own promises of the Premier League in a couple of years, in which case the formula price would just be loose change from the TV money. In the event, when the club’s fortunes plummeted, the finances became a major problem. Maybe that’s when they started playing hard ball, and disastrously misjudged the effect that would have on the politicians and the charity.

 

[chiefdave]

And when SISU took over, surely that formula was part of the overall deal they knowingly signed up to, along with the high rent.

They would have done (or should have done) but frankly they didn't care as stadium ownership wasn't part of the Ranson plan that was sold to SISU as a great investment. His idea was small investment in the team, in relative terms, get promotion and cash in. In fact the reason we ended up with SISU was that the other interested parties at the time all identified that stadium ownership was essential and that the council wouldn't sell to the club causing them to drop interest.

We then moved on to SISU phase 2 with that idiot Orange Ken. I suppose you can see how we ended up with him. Ranson went, apparently when he finally left it wasn't the first time he'd tried to get out, and Ken could well have been the only other football person (in loose terms) that SISU knew thanks to their dealings with him at Southampton. Suspect the plan for him was get the club to breakeven while staying in the Championship so SISU could sell us as a decent prospect and recoup some of their money. Failed miserably of course and that's when SISU got directly involved.

It was only when Fisher came in that stadium ownership seemed to be seriously looked at. He identified early on that the rent was way too high and unsustainable and that ACL was underperforming and reliant on the football club. Of course he was ridiculed for saying so but turned out he was right.

So basically by the time the stadium and rent was properly looked at we were many years down the line with SISU, playing in L1 and a mess. Didn't Joy pretty much say as much in her Telegraph interview?

 

[italiahorse]

To be fair unless we have owners prepared to trade at multi million pound losses or to put in millions of new funds the deal at the Ricoh or the new stadium is not going to make the difference to CCFC competing in the Championship. The gap in funding is simply to big

But which is best?
Surely before Sisu commit too a new stadium they would know this.
For all I know we could be in an 18,000 seater stadium in Brandon and be worse off.
Are we working with Wasps for a long term deal so a realistic comparable calculation can be made ?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

We pay rent and match day costs, this money will be used by ACL to invest in the infrastructure.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

They may have done, but the fact remains the sale to Wasps has not altered what CCFC signed up to.

CCFC had agreed a 2+2, this hasn't changed. So if Wasps hadn't taken over CCFC would still be in the same position they are today.

Why should ACL have extended the olive branch? SISU had left them out of pocket due to the rent strike and then stropped off to Northampton.

Let slip? Why shouldn't ACL have been talking to other parties? The stadium was empty, what were ACL suppose to do? Twiddle their thumbs or begged to CCFC came back? SISU had moved them to Northampton for three years whilst a new stadium was being built don't forget!

It could be argued that all these parties had involved in the situation, but surely the fact our owners, as custodians of CCFC, have had any involvement is the biggest issue?

The details of the deal being kept 'secret' also has been used as further indication of this plot, but again the fact the details of the agreement SISU made for CCFC to return have never been disclosed seems to be ignored.

They'll never be as big as CCFC? Remind me again how big Sky Blues are again! Third division football and drawing in 11,000 fans from a city of 333,000 (edit) in somebody else's stadium.

It's possible the Rugby World Cup could increase their attendance.

Why should people have to watch Cov play?

Whilst this has been mentioned before, and dismissed by some, the sense of the big occasion and family atmosphere (*reply incoming where a mate's mate's neighbour's work colleague was roughed up during a Wasps game!*) is what people are enjoying with Wasps at the Ricoh which you wouldn't get at The Butts.

People are fickle, hence people's dismay/disgust at the sudden love-in many are having with Wasps, and so surely it would follow they'd want what's available at the Ricoh and not watching Cov?

The history of clubs means little to a lot of people.......and why Wasps have seemingly been accepted by some (not all!) people in and around Coventry.

Yep, just need to get the Cov Wasps involved now

Your posts aim to do one of three things, absolve all blame from other parties, big up Wasps or ignore/dismiss genuine concerns people have by Wasps being here.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Ccfc it looks like they have spent this years rent on black paint to replace the sky blue walls

 

[armybike]

Your posts aim to do one of three things, absolve all blame from other parties, big up Wasps or ignore/dismiss genuine concerns people have by Wasps being here.

So, you've not found any posts where I defended CCC, ACL or Wasp.

 

[italiahorse]

The council didn't need to say ACL was making money, then breaking even and that they would "build bridges" but they did.

The fact remains on record that good old CCC said they'd consider selling to the club - when they'd already sold it.

ACL went very close to going bust. As Sisu planned and as will be highlighted as maybe a better option for CCC in the JR appeal.
The CCFC deal would have helped the finances and CCFC would have agreed that they would like to work towards owning the Ricoh.
But the timing was wrong and if the Wasps deal had not happened ACL would have gone bust.
IMO

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

So, you've not found any posts where I defended CCC, ACL or Wasp.

Yep just posted them, absolving of them of blame when they don't deserve to be absolved is defending them. Dismissing and deflecting peoples concerns over the Wasps move is defending them. Bigging up Wasps in response to people criticising them is defending them.

Part of its context as well which can't be seen just by the content of your posts, another user will post a criticism or genuine concern over the Wasps move and you will just just dismiss it without reason and deflect onto something else, that is also defending them

You have zero self awareness over what you post

 

[armybike]

Yep just posted them, absolving of them of blame when they don't deserve to be absolved is defending them. Dismissing and deflecting peoples concerns over the Wasps move is defending them. Bigging up Wasps in response to people criticising them is defending them.

You have zero self awareness over what you are post

You do understand what question marks are right? You do understand how conversations/debates work? Why did you feel the need to remove the emoji for the last quote? Because my views don't fit in with your way of thinking doesn't mean you're take on my comments is correct. I am fully aware of what I'm posting.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Yep I do understand how they work, funny seeing you get defensive now you've been exposed though.

 

[italiahorse]

So why are people using his quotes as evidence then if he's such a big joke.

He's also the man working on the Tim Pot stadium.
Worrying isn't it ?

 

[armybike]

Yep I do understand how they work, funny seeing you get defensive now you've been exposed though.

Defensive? Asking questions of clarification?

If you think it's funny your really need to get out more.

Exposed? You're really like a modern day Roger Cook!!

 

[chiefdave]

Ccfc it looks like they have spent this years rent on black paint to replace the sky blue walls

They've painted the media area black, looks absolutely ridiculous. The bowl of the stadium is Sky Blue apart from one section!

Suppose some will say not a big deal but its just another small step towards the whole ground being yellow and black.