Defensive coach / Goalkeeping coach (1 Viewer)

[clint van damme]

If I’m honest, I do think we need more coaches like Lawrence who do everything right behind the scenes, and less coaches like Williams who do everything wrong. Instant success.

Or we could have more people whose remit is literally in their job title but exonerate them from any responsibility for that area when it's failing.

 

---

[Hobo]

I never said Ales Williams ruined anyone.
I've said we've constantly had issues with our keepers and as goal keeping coach he has to take some responsibility.

The fact Moore is playing for a team chasing the autos proves that with the right coaching he's better than he showed 2nd season here.

I think it is clear, that Moore was experiencing off field problems, without the club stating what they were.

But people still like to bash the goalkeeping coach for that loss of confidence/form.

 

[clint van damme]

I think it is clear, that Moore was experiencing off field problems, without the club stating what they were.

But people still like to bash the goalkeeping coach for that loss of confidence/form.

It's not just one keeper though, it's every one.
I doubt there's another team in the league with a catalogue of goal keeping howlers like ours over the last few years.

Questions have to be asked of the goal keeping coach.

 

[Viktor17]

I think it is clear, that Moore was experiencing off field problems, without the club stating what they were.

But people still like to bash the goalkeeping coach for that loss of confidence/form.

SM 100% had some pretty shitty off field stuff going on. Shame as he was excellent in first season.

 

[Hobo]

It's not just one keeper though, it's every one.
I doubt there's another team in the league with a catalogue of goal keeping howlers like ours over the last few years.

Questions have to be asked of the goal keeping coach.

There are lots of questions to ask, not just about a coach or coaches.

Before Williams people blamed Oggy. I bet most have never seen either coach a single session.

Having heard Oggy on the radio he knows a lot about tactics etc and not just from a goalkeeping perspective. His knowledge is very good.

There is a difference between asking questions and people wading in with statements like they are fact.

Collectively the team have been poor at defending, even at the end of last season and this. Lots of people have to shoulder the blame. Even when Viveash and Lawrence was here we were making errors as a team defending. Viveash was a centre half so he knew how to defend. It's not all down to the goalkeeping coach.

 

[clint van damme]

There are lots of questions to ask, not just about a coach or coaches.

Before Williams people blamed Oggy. I bet most have never seen either coach a single session.

Having heard Oggy on the radio he knows a lot about tactics etc and not just from a goalkeeping perspective. His knowledge is very good.

There is a difference between asking questions and people wading in with statements like they are fact.

Collectively the team have been poor at defending, even at the end of last season and this. Lots of people have to shoulder the blame. Even when Viveash and Lawrence was here we were making errors as a team defending. Viveash was a centre half so he knew how to defend. It's not all down to the goalkeeping coach.

We've got a keeper who is conceding more than the amount of goals he's expected to and is bottom of the league for that metric.
It may not all be down to the goalkeeping coach, (I mean, why does he keep getting picked?), but he definitely has a decent amount of responsibility.

 

[Hobo]

We've got a keeper who is conceding more than the amount of goals he's expected to and is bottom of the league for that metric.
It may not all be down to the goalkeeping coach, (I mean, why does he keep getting picked?), but he definitely has a decent amount of responsibility.

Goals conceded aren't always down to the goalkeeper or the goalkeeping coach though.

But you are obviously like a dog with a bone so I will leave it there.

 

[clint van damme]

Goals conceded aren't always down to the goalkeeper or the goalkeeping coach though.

But you are obviously like a dog with a bone so I will leave it there.

Come on, look at the goals we've been conceding.
Many of them have been very much down to the goal keeper.
I was one of the people defending Collins after the Cardiff game when I thought he took some unfair criticism, but his stats are dreadful and the evidence of what your watching is there for anyone viewing our games.

 

[Hobo]

Come on, look at the goals we've been conceding.
Many of them have been very much down to the goal keeper.
I was one of the people defending Collins after the Cardiff game when I thought he took some unfair criticism, but his stats are dreadful and the evidence of what your watching is there for anyone viewing our games.

I don't disagree about his stats. Perhaps he is just a bad keeper? I have never seen anything positive in him and said from the outset he looked like an accident waiting to happen and he got away with a lot early on. But I suspect Viveash thought he had something?

Now you come on, Collins hasn't always always been in goal when we have been conceding goals. There has been consistent frailties in our defence collectively going back to the second half of last season. With the team turning up for big games and being shy in others.

If you can't see it hasn't always been the keepers fault (despite some howlers) or even a defenders fault, then I don't know what team you have been watching.

I do agree that we need better than Collins in goal and we need a better LB/LWB than JDS. Because they seem more culpable than most. Also they both seem the type of player that when they do make a mistake it seems to affect them and their confidence drains quicker than a bath without a plug.

 

[clint van damme]

I don't disagree about his stats. Perhaps he is just a bad keeper? I have never seen anything positive in him and said from the outset he looked like an accident waiting to happen and he got away with a lot early on. But I suspect Viveash thought he had something?

Now you come on, Collins hasn't always always been in goal when we have been conceding goals. There has been consistent frailties in our defence collectively going back to the second half of last season. With the team turning up for big games and being shy in others.

If you can't see it hasn't always been the keepers fault (despite some howlers) or even a defenders fault, then I don't know what team you have been watching.

I do agree that we need better than Collins in goal and we need a better LB/LWB than JDS. Because they seem more culpable than most. Also they both seem the type of player that when they do make a mistake it seems to affect them and their confidence drains quicker than a bath without a plug.

But it's the howlers I'm on about.
Our keepers seem to go through these car crash periods with alarming regularity.

It's been happening for years.

 

[Hobo]

But it's the howlers I'm on about.
Our keepers seem to go through these car crash periods with alarming regularity.

It's been happening for years.

Well Robins had the chance to get rid with his coaching shake up, so did King.

King also has a second chance when he got rid of Robins and a third chance when he brought in Lampard.

Where I stand is I know our keepers aren't very good and as I have never seen Williams coach it's a bit like comparing apples and pears.

For instance, I would not say Viveash was a bad coach having been given some of the best talent in the country, but none could establish themselves in the Chelsea first team. There is a whole host of reasons that happened. Also all sorts of reasons why some went elsewhere and made it and some came to Coventry and flopped. It's not all down to the coach.

 

[clint van damme]

Well Robins had the chance to get rid with his coaching shake up, so did King.

King also has a second chance when he got rid of Robins and a third chance when he brought in Lampard.

Where I stand is I know our keepers aren't very good and as I have never seen Williams coach it's a bit like comparing apples and pears.

For instance, I would not say Viveash was a bad coach having been given some of the best talent in the country, but none could establish themselves in the Chelsea first team. There is a whole host of reasons that happened. Also all sorts of reasons why some went elsewhere and made it and some came to Coventry and flopped. It's not all down to the coach.

But with the outfield players, yes, there have been failures, but there's been a lot of successes as well

When was the last keeper we had who notably improved?

 

[Hobo]

But with the outfield players, yes, there have been failures, but there's been a lot of successes as well

When was the last keeper we had who notably improved?

First point Williams isn't responsible for who is signed and who he has to work with.

Also coaches have more outfield players to work with so have a great chance of success because of the numbers.

Also I think the standard of goalkeeping isn't what it was across the board in this country. But that is another matter altogether.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But with the outfield players, yes, there have been failures, but there's been a lot of successes as well

When was the last keeper we had who notably improved?

Quite honestly Ben Wilson

 

[JoeCCFCPUSB]

Sorry but

4 against Pompey
1 against hull
2 against WBA
2 against Cardiff
2 against Sheffield United
2 against Sunderland
2 against Luton
2 against Burnley
2 against Derby
2 against Shef Wed
3 against Leeds
2 against Swansea
2 against Oxford

Ain't fucking nobody out here blaming that on Sheaf, Eccles and Torp


Come on that's your centre backs, your full backs and your keeper.

 

[clint van damme]

Quite honestly Ben Wilson

Before going to shit the following season.
It's never maintained.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Sorry but

4 against Pompey
1 against hull
2 against WBA
2 against Cardiff
2 against Sheffield United
2 against Sunderland
2 against Luton
2 against Burnley
2 against Derby
2 against Shef Wed
3 against Leeds
2 against Swansea
2 against Oxford

Ain't fucking nobody out here blaming that on Sheaf, Eccles and Torp


Come on that's your centre backs, your full backs and your keeper.

It's not just the numbers, it's that the quality of the goals is so poor, often just farcical.

 

[clint van damme]

It's not just the numbers, it's that the quality of the goals is so poor, often just farcical.

I thought the 2 goals we conceded against Sunderland were both well worked but a large percentage of the others we've conceded have been very poor.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I thought the 2 goals we conceded against Sunderland were both well worked but a large percentage of the others we've conceded have been very poor.

It's rare I look at an opposition goal and think it was well worked or a great bit of individual skill. Callum Lang scores 4 and you get a pot shot, a wellied one on one gift wrapped by Dasilva, a free header and a tap in. He won't have an easier game in his life.

Without beating the same drum, we could at least make things simpler for the players by not bringing so many back for set pieces. Give people fewer things to learn and less things to concentrate on during the week and during a game.

I compare how things are going to the problems Man Utd are riddled with. Another squad with a toxic collective mentality where you can't predict what performance is going to come next. Oh, and they love conceding free headers in a packed 6 yard box too.

 

[Hobo]

Sorry but

4 against Pompey
1 against hull
2 against WBA
2 against Cardiff
2 against Sheffield United
2 against Sunderland
2 against Luton
2 against Burnley
2 against Derby
2 against Shef Wed
3 against Leeds
2 against Swansea
2 against Oxford

Ain't fucking nobody out here blaming that on Sheaf, Eccles and Torp


Come on that's your centre backs, your full backs and your keeper.

Mistakes in midfield can expose the defence and leave them overloaded.

Torp, Eccles, Sheaf and Rudoni have all made individual errors in games that have done just that. Yes defenders have made individual errors too.

But it is too simplistic to look at the goals conceded and just heap it all on the defenders and the keepers.

 

[mmttww]

We've had a succession of goalkeepers who are abject failures who have declined rather than improved.

by 'succession' you mean Moore and Collins (a grand total of two!), one of which we all know was knocked back by off the field stuff. Like SBT said, can we all try to stop windmilling when we're bored and frustrated. I don't think the coaches told Collins to go out and play like he'd been doing bong hits.

 

[clint van damme]

by 'succession' you mean Moore and Collins (a grand total of two!), one of which we all know was knocked back by off the field stuff. Like SBT said, can we all try to stop windmilling when we're bored and frustrated. I don't think the coaches told Collins to go out and play like he'd been doing bong hits.

He worked with Marosi before that who also went to shit, admittedly post serious injury, and Wilson, won golden gloves then started his own collection of howlers.
And there's clearly something going on with Dovin though I've no idea what.

So, yeah, that's a succession.

 

[mmttww]

So, yeah, that's a succession.

Wilson barely had to make a save in the playoff season and there's data to show that. He was always at the level he showed last season. Dovin is a kid in a new country who had to miss a couple of games with a concussion. Don't edit history to suit your argument.

 

[clint van damme]

Wilson barely had to make a save in the playoff season and there's data to show that. He was always at the level he showed last season. Dovin is a kid in a new country who had to miss a couple of games with a concussion. Don't edit history to suit your argument.

So Wilson was as bad in the play off season as the following season, one when he won the golden gloves the other when he got dropped in October.
OK then.
And you talk about editing history!

As for Dovin, if he can't get in ahead of Collins then he should give up

 

[mmttww]

And you talk about editing history!

or I'm pointing out Wilson had protection in that season which masked how good a keeper he is / isn't. If Dovin doesn't get in ahead of Collins, I agree, something's up but it doesn't mean our coaches have ruined him in the few months he's been here.

 

[clint van damme]

or I'm pointing out Wilson had protection in that season which masked how good a keeper he is / isn't. If Dovin doesn't get in ahead of Collins, I agree, something's up but it doesn't mean our coaches have ruined him in the few months he's been here.

But they just don't seem to have any record of improving keepers though.
It seems to me to have been a problem position for ages and just when we think we've cracked it it all goes wrong.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Wilson barely had to make a save in the playoff season and there's data to show that. He was always at the level he showed last season. Dovin is a kid in a new country who had to miss a couple of games with a concussion. Don't edit history to suit your argument.

That isn’t why he was dropped first time.

 

[SBT]

Before going to shit the following season.
It's never maintained.

Wilson is a miles better keeper today than he was when he first joined. And I say that as someone who’s never rated him.

 

[mmttww]

That isn’t why he was dropped first time.

I know, but we're talking about here and now.

 

[mmttww]

It seems to me to have been a problem position for ages and just when we think we've cracked it it all goes wrong.

I don't think there's a good reason to doubt Dovin will work out, yet. If he can't get game time between now and the end of the season, I'll be worried.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But they just don't seem to have any record of improving keepers though.
It seems to me to have been a problem position for ages and just when we think we've cracked it it all goes wrong.

Signing a rookie from Sweden wasn't necessary but I suppose Doug again saw pound signs. Loads of wise old heads knocking around who aren't getting game time and know how to co-ordinate a defence too.

Even if we didn't want one of those Johansson who is a known quantity in this league was available at a fixed price and has turned out fine for Stoke.

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

Get Petr Cech and John Terry in, teach three spinless wankers how to defend and not concede

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

Have you never heard of the saying, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"

"Be unable to turn something ugly or inferior into something attractive or of value"