Match Thread Derby Match Thread (2 Viewers)

[covcity4life]

CC4L and G were pretty pleased with the display for starters

Did I say it was superb?

I said it was a good point and a good performance

I also pointed out negatives like Shipley and o hare finishing

Be level headed not hot headed

 

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[KenilworthSkyBlue]

I think a big frustration is that we can accept us starting games intending to frustrate the opposition and then open up and go for it but we could all see Derby's goal coming last night, players were getting knackered, the team was deeper and deeper and the ball kept coming back. We were crying out for another outlet up top and we made some like for like changes that did nothing to stop it.

As soon as we conceded we put the second forward on, took the initiative and got the goal, if we'd have made that change on the hour we could have won.

As much as I like Robins. It feels at times that he's constantly reactive in games rather than being proactive.

Most of us saw that the goal was coming, yet nothing was done to try and solve the issue.

 

[Gibbo]

Ten things I personally got from the game and the ‘robust’ debate on here afterwards. The latter was probably more interesting…

• Robbins’ caution canbe bloody minded stubbornness. He's been vindicated before but last night it at its worst – Shipley and substitutions
• Shipley: He's always liked him but does anyone think Shipley cuts the mustard at this level? And why didn’t he take him off a lot earlier?
• The trick at Norwich was playing the substitutions – all five. Paul Merson on Sky on Saturday said it made all the difference. Why did he not repeat the trick – I assume because his best players were already on the pitch.
• Fans: ‘It is going to be a struggle this season’ and also fans: ‘Why are we not winning easily away from home?’ Hey ho.
• Expect the game against Rotherham to be tight and won by the odd goal at best. The sides are very evenly matched; they were last year [in the second game at least]
• What has made the difference to our defence, the return of Kelly or the change in formation? Or both? Who the **** knows? Sam M took a pasting last night in a 4 man defence, it's probably the return of Kelly leaves the defenders less exposed.
• Yesterday we missed one thing in particular going forward, and it wasn’t a second striker – we missed the three man central midfield – in particular Sheaf doing fetching and carrying.
• I’m rubbish at working out who'll make it at the higher level. McFadzean, Kelly and Hyam all look good enough, particularly Hyam
• Robbins either really likes Jobello or just wants to establish whether he is any good or not. He was an unusual substitution last night.
• Kelly and Hyam, both brought in for nowt when the club was really in the poo, must be two of the best signings ever. And ideal ones – good for the team, but no so good that better financed clubs may come sniffing.

Oh, and if we don’t at least double our money on Hamer, cometh the time…
And can O’Hara learn to head a ball please.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Ten things I personally got from the game and the ‘robust’ debate on here afterwards. The latter was probably more interesting…

• Robbins’ caution canbe bloody minded stubbornness. He's been vindicated before but last night it at its worst – Shipley and substitutions
• Shipley: He's always liked him but does anyone think Shipley cuts the mustard at this level? And why didn’t he take him off a lot earlier?
• The trick at Norwich was playing the substitutions – all five. Paul Merson on Sky on Saturday said it made all the difference. Why did he not repeat the trick – I assume because his best players were already on the pitch.
• Fans: ‘It is going to be a struggle this season’ and also fans: ‘Why are we not winning easily away from home?’ Hey ho.
• Expect the game against Rotherham to be tight and won by the odd goal at best. The sides are very evenly matched; they were last year [in the second game at least]
• What has made the difference to our defence, the return of Kelly or the change in formation? Or both? Who the **** knows? Sam M took a pasting last night in a 4 man defence, it's probably the return of Kelly leaves the defenders less exposed.
• Yesterday we missed one thing in particular going forward, and it wasn’t a second striker – we missed the three man central midfield – in particular Sheaf doing fetching and carrying.
• I’m rubbish at working out who'll make it at the higher level. McFadzean, Kelly and Hyam all look good enough, particularly Hyam
• Robbins either really likes Jobello or just wants to establish whether he is any good or not. He was an unusual substitution last night.
• Kelly and Hyam, both brought in for nowt when the club was really in the poo, must be two of the best signings ever. And ideal ones – good for the team, but no so good that better financed clubs may come sniffing.

Oh, and if we don’t at least double our money on Hamer, cometh the time…
And can O’Hara learn to head a ball please.

You should apply to the CT!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Dabo and McCallum aren’t FBs, Shipley isn’t a winger and Giles isn’t a RW, Walker isn’t a target man and the CBs aren’t at their best in a two. It’s just bodies behind the ball and it wasn’t 4231 it was 45——-1

I agree, it’s clearly a 4-5-1. Kelly very clearly plays behind Shipley and Hamer last night and Sheaf & Hamer v Norwich.

Giles has been a winger and midfielder most of his career. Wolves want him played as a WB since that is the system that played (until recently).

The CBs look comfortable, a bit bizarre to say they aren’t. Again, Dabo and McCallum have played mostly as fullbacks. The roles of modern fullback and WB are similar.

We’re playing in a more pragmatic way and we’re not going to stay up conceding 2-3 goals a game, whether or not we play better using more familiar systems.

Derby might be that madhouse team that gets relegated this season because they’re a mess (for whatever reasons). But, their squad should not be at the bottom of the table. I wanted a win, but a draw was a decent result.

 

[Deleted member 11652]

I agree, it’s clearly a 4-5-1. Kelly very clearly plays behind Shipley and Hamer last night and Sheaf & Hamer v Norwich.

Giles has been a winger and midfielder most of his career. Wolves want him played as a WB since that is the system that played (until recently).

The CBs look comfortable, a bit bizarre to say they aren’t. Again, Dabo and McCallum have played mostly as fullbacks. The roles of modern fullback and WB are similar.

We’re playing in a more pragmatic way and we’re not going to stay up conceding 2-3 goals a game, whether or not we play better using more familiar systems.

Derby might be that madhouse team that gets relegated this season because they’re a mess (for whatever reasons). But, their squad should not be at the bottom of the table. I wanted a win, but a draw was a decent result.

I think it’s hard to judge the formation as both our wide men are very different. Giles will hug the touch line on the right or left and plays as a winger as if in a 4-5-1. Shipley and O’Hare when playing out wide tuck in and play as attacking midfielders like a 4-2-3-1. Im struggling to tell which is Robins intention or whether he is happy for each player to play to their natural game.

 

[Magwitch]

Can't look through the whole thread ,must have been talked about, but what was wrong with walker's goal ? I've looked at it several times and can't see what's wrong ?

Not a lot but these days you are offside if your hand or toe is in an offside position it looks and I’ve only seen one replay Walker was just not quiet in line. But let’s take a positive from it he took his chance superbly, this kid can and will score given the service.

 

[shmmeee]

I agree, it’s clearly a 4-5-1. Kelly very clearly plays behind Shipley and Hamer last night and Sheaf & Hamer v Norwich.

Giles has been a winger and midfielder most of his career. Wolves want him played as a WB since that is the system that played (until recently).

The CBs look comfortable, a bit bizarre to say they aren’t. Again, Dabo and McCallum have played mostly as fullbacks. The roles of modern fullback and WB are similar.

We’re playing in a more pragmatic way and we’re not going to stay up conceding 2-3 goals a game, whether or not we play better using more familiar systems.

Derby might be that madhouse team that gets relegated this season because they’re a mess (for whatever reasons). But, their squad should not be at the bottom of the table. I wanted a win, but a draw was a decent result.

The entire point is we weren’t conceding 2-3 goals a game because of the system and we haven’t stopped because of the new one. We were playing teams who were flying, now we are playing teams who are struggling. We need to pick up points in these games. A lucky last minute draw against a team that can’t buy a win is in no way a decent result. Given how they played on the day the lucky last minute draw against Norwich wasn’t a decent result either. Nor was the 0-0 vs Brum. All those games were there for the taking and we didn’t even try.

If we aren’t good enough as you and others seem to think then we will go down anyway, we may as well try and attract as many fans and get the most out of our saleable assets while we do.

 

[Deleted member 11652]

The entire point is we weren’t conceding 2-3 goals a game because of the system and we haven’t stopped because of the new one. We were playing teams who were flying, now we are playing teams who are struggling. We need to pick up points in these games. A lucky last minute draw against a team that can’t buy a win is in no way a decent result. Given how they played on the day the lucky last minute draw against Norwich wasn’t a decent result either. Nor was the 0-0 vs Brum. All those games were there for the taking and we didn’t even try.

If we aren’t good enough as you and others seem to think then we will go down anyway, we may as well try and attract as many fans and get the most out of our saleable assets while we do.

We played the 3-5-2 against a poor forest side, a depleted Reading side who were in false position anyway and Watford who’s recent form has been very mixed. Not sure if I’m missing any but we conceded 7 goals in those 3 and picked up 3 points.

 

[cc84cov]

Robins said himself he can't understand why they kept hoofing it forward, we didn't play our game...

It was clear as day to most we didn’t have a midfielder who could come collect and keep us ticking over he was sat on the bench smiling - Ben Sheaf

 

[covcity4life]

Walkers header looked well offaide to me

Red button so no replay

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Walkers header looked well offaide to me

Red button so no replay

Well you must have been watching the wrong game then thinking he was 'well offside'

 

[cc84cov]

Well you must have been watching the wrong game then thinking he was 'well offside'

Looked level to me I don’t think he even watched the game he Sakd the football we played was easy on the eye even robins didn’t get why we kept going long

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

Walkers header looked well offaide to me

Red button so no replay

Take a look at the highlights uploaded on another thread here. Needs to be freeze framed for clarity but it doesn't look a definite offside to me, even though Walker's body language suggested he thought he was offside.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Looked level to me I don’t think he even watched the game he Sakd the football we played was easy on the eye even robins didn’t get why we kept going long

Was clearly onside and we got robbed once again by shit officials

 

[cc84cov]

Was clearly onside and we got robbed once again by shit officials

If we have to draw lines to determine if a player is offside then he’s not offside it’s pathetic the linesman clearly guessed his decision

#Prat

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

The entire point is we weren’t conceding 2-3 goals a game because of the system and we haven’t stopped because of the new one. We were playing teams who were flying, now we are playing teams who are struggling. We need to pick up points in these games. A lucky last minute draw against a team that can’t buy a win is in no way a decent result. Given how they played on the day the lucky last minute draw against Norwich wasn’t a decent result either. Nor was the 0-0 vs Brum. All those games were there for the taking and we didn’t even try.

If we aren’t good enough as you and others seem to think then we will go down anyway, we may as well try and attract as many fans and get the most out of our saleable assets while we do.

We weren't always playing teams that were flying. We still conceded 2 goals against an average QPR side and Forest.

Fair enough if you have an alternative view and aren't completely sold on the formation but attempting to distort facts to suit your own narrative just serves to invalidate your own argument.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The entire point is we weren’t conceding 2-3 goals a game because of the system and we haven’t stopped because of the new one. We were playing teams who were flying, now we are playing teams who are struggling. We need to pick up points in these games. A lucky last minute draw against a team that can’t buy a win is in no way a decent result. Given how they played on the day the lucky last minute draw against Norwich wasn’t a decent result either. Nor was the 0-0 vs Brum. All those games were there for the taking and we didn’t even try.

If we aren’t good enough as you and others seem to think then we will go down anyway, we may as well try and attract as many fans and get the most out of our saleable assets while we do.

I do think we’re good enough to survive.

We were conceding soft goals despite the quality of opposition. Objectively speaking, we’ve tightened things up defensively and this is a priority if we’re to survive. Even if it is a stopgap.

Derby have sacked their manager, and have some good players. If I was a betting man (which I’m not), I’d bet they’ll stay up. They’re the home team and our away form is the worst in the league going into this fixture.

The expectation we’d rock up to Pride Park and turn them over is naive, in my view. All in all, we weren’t so bad in the first half and as an article pointed out, we were a fraction of being 2-0 up going into the half.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think it’s hard to judge the formation as both our wide men are very different. Giles will hug the touch line on the right or left and plays as a winger as if in a 4-5-1. Shipley and O’Hare when playing out wide tuck in and play as attacking midfielders like a 4-2-3-1. Im struggling to tell which is Robins intention or whether he is happy for each player to play to their natural game.

Defensively, Kelly is the anchor of 3 CMs and we have two wide players, 1 striker and the back 4. It’s very clearly 4-5-1.

Attacking wise, it’s more fluid because of the things you outline, but Kelly is almost always deeper than everyone else.

Jobello and Giles will start on the wings eventually. Shipley and COH on the wings is a bit of stopgap because we have none. Hopefully Hillßner returns at some point - probably unlikely for a while.

If there’s anything to be spent in January, you’d think we’d go for a winger if we plan on sticking with this system.

 

[cc84cov]

I think it’s hard to judge the formation as both our wide men are very different. Giles will hug the touch line on the right or left and plays as a winger as if in a 4-5-1. Shipley and O’Hare when playing out wide tuck in and play as attacking midfielders like a 4-2-3-1. Im struggling to tell which is Robins intention or whether he is happy for each player to play to their natural game.

Your not the only one struggling to tell what his intentions are

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I think a big frustration is that we can accept us starting games intending to frustrate the opposition and then open up and go for it but we could all see Derby's goal coming last night, players were getting knackered, the team was deeper and deeper and the ball kept coming back. We were crying out for another outlet up top and we made some like for like changes that did nothing to stop it.

As soon as we conceded we put the second forward on, took the initiative and got the goal, if we'd have made that change on the hour we could have won.

The thing is, we didn't though.

We put Biamou on and took Walker off.

Then bizarrely he brought Ostigaard on with five minutes left.

Even more bizarrely he brought Bakayoko on with One minute left.

It was absolutely shocking management. Your point about changes earlier is right though. I think everyone was saying it for a good fifteen minutes. I wasn't shocked when they scored at all.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The thing is, we didn't though.

We put Biamou on and took Walker off.

Then bizarrely he brought Ostigaard on with five minutes left.

Even more bizarrely he brought Bakayoko on with One minute left.

It was absolutely shocking management. Your point about changes earlier is right though. I think everyone was saying it for a good fifteen minutes. I wasn't shocked when they scored at all.

Ostigard crossed the ball in for the equaliser and is our main threat set-pieces.

But, of course you’re right, this is shocking management.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Ostigard crossed the ball in for the equaliser and is our main threat set-pieces.

But, of course you’re right, this is shocking management.

Are you being serious?

The management yesterday was absolutely shocking. To most people, they don't see the brilliant strike from Hamer as a reason to gloss over what was a shocking performance and a ridiculous level of tactical decisions.

I know the pubs open today but you aren't supposed to drink unless you have a substantial meal. Take it easy.

 

[cc84cov]

Are you being serious?

The management yesterday was absolutely shocking. To most people, they don't see the brilliant strike from Hamer as a reason to gloss over what was a shocking performance and a ridiculous level of tactical decisions.

I know the pubs open today but you aren't supposed to drink unless you have a substantial meal. Take it easy.

Osti is our main threat fro set pieces tho and he’s been sat on the bench

 

[shmmeee]

I do think we’re good enough to survive.

We were conceding soft goals despite the quality of opposition. Objectively speaking, we’ve tightened things up defensively and this is a priority if we’re to survive. Even if it is a stopgap.

Derby have sacked their manager, and have some good players. If I was a betting man (which I’m not), I’d bet they’ll stay up. They’re the home team and our away form is the worst in the league going into this fixture.

The expectation we’d rock up to Pride Park and turn them over is naive, in my view. All in all, we weren’t so bad in the first half and as an article pointed out, we were a fraction of being 2-0 up going into the half.

Not about turning them over. About recognising it was a chance for points and being brave enough to go for it. Fine if you think against all evidence Derby are Man City in disguise, but the league and form tables suggest otherwise.

We needed to adapt to the league and tweak our playing style. Not turn into Wokingham Mens FC in a third round FA Cup tie. Our players are better than just being lumps to block shots on the edge of the area. We are actively making ourselves a worse team at the alter of clean sheets against poor sides. Derby average less than 0.5 goals a game. Worst in the division. The fact we gave them one and we’re lucky on three other occasions isn’t a ringing endorsement of our defensive prowess.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Osti is our main threat fro set pieces tho and he’s been sat on the bench

Kastaneer is our best person for slide tackles. What point are you trying to make?

There are many, many reasons listed in this thread as to why the management yesterday was piss poor.

Bringing on a defender who is good at set pieces (how many has he scored) and scoring a lucky wonder strike do not paper over that.

 

[robbiethemole]

Just seen the highlights again, Walkers movement is unreal and he was totally unmarked in the box, shame he went just before the ball was kicked. We have the firepower to be ok

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We played the 3-5-2 against a poor forest side, a depleted Reading side who were in false position anyway and Watford who’s recent form has been very mixed. Not sure if I’m missing any but we conceded 7 goals in those 3 and picked up 3 points.

Haha false position/they had injuries/last minute goal

Last minute draw against bottom of the table: good performance/tough place to go/criticising makes you clueless

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Haha false position/they had injuries/last minute goal

Last minute draw against bottom of the table: good performance/tough place to go/criticising makes you clueless

Quote me calling anyone clueless or saying it’s a tough place to go.

 

[DannyThomas_1981]

We played the 3-5-2 against a poor forest side, a depleted Reading side who were in false position anyway and Watford who’s recent form has been very mixed. Not sure if I’m missing any but we conceded 7 goals in those 3 and picked up 3 points.

Did we have a fully fit Kelly or Dabo for any of those games? Both incredibly important to our 3 at the back system.

 

[Evo1883]

The 3 atb system has served us well mostly up until this season... I have no doubt we will see it again at some point... People need to get a grip because all teams play shit from time to time.. I have no doubt if we performed anywhere near the level we can we'd have won yesterday... Didn't happen... Move on

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Did we have a fully fit Kelly or Dabo for any of those games? Both incredibly important to our 3 at the back system.

We can argue that for any game. Could say Godden was missing and walker was struggling last night and they’re our only strikers capable of playing up front on their own. Facts are, we are yet to lose after the international break and system change.

 

[Paxman II]

Ostigard for me should play. Done nothing wrong and is a threat from set pices. Hyam last night was off his game and got into big trouble on one occasion which Derby should have scored from. Rose fit but needs minutes off the bench. Mccallum lost last night. Prefer giles LWB if I'm honest and the return of Sheaf or perhas Allen. O'Hare is frustrating. many times gets into good areas but his finishing is dire. His physicality is in question at times and not the impact we all had hoped so far. Shippers is an odd one, with a great 60 minutes in him but most times just looks passive. Dabo was far less effective in a back four. The three at the back with marauding wing backs just fits our players better. felt Robins wanted another clean sheet and to nick a goal but when we wnet behind it blew the system apart. Luckily we got that equaliser. be more brave now we have a few points gap, and what should be easier opposition over the next a games.

 

[DannyThomas_1981]

We can argue that for any game. Could say Godden was missing and walker was struggling last night and they’re our only strikers capable of playing up front on their own. Facts are, we are yet to lose after the international break and system change.

Just answer the following. With which system did we make the best team in the division look very average not so long ago? And which system last night did we play in which we made the worst team look ok?

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Just answer the following. With which system did we make the best team in the division look very average not so long ago? And which system last night did we play in which we made the worst team look ok?

We can’t call Norwich reserves the best team in the division because ultimate without Pukki and Buendia alone they aren’t the best team. Which system are we unbeaten in and which system were we on course to concede 100 goals in?