Derby points deduction (5 Viewers)

[steve cooper]

The real root cause of this is the holy grail that is the Premier League, a business built on the billions from Sky.
There will always be people who try to find inventive and shady ways to get a piece of that action.

 

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[oldskyblue58]

Still boils down to choices and decisions made by the owners no matter what the money is available

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Still boils down to choices and decisions made by the owners no matter what the money is available

Mel Morris got within one game but the funny thing is they lost out to another club spending some ridiculous amount in wages too. Dependency on a billionaire's generosity is not a sustainable model

 

[Frostie]

It was them doing that then going up with an unaffected squad that brought in the point deductions afterwards. They've been more than lucky in the last 20 years

Yep. Never paid off most of their debtors including East Midlands Ambulance Service. Reprehensible.

Pretty sure they massively failed FFP (or equivalent) to get promoted to the PL too but as they did get promoted the EFL were largely powerless to punish them & they got a tiny fine instead.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yep. Never paid off most of their debtors including East Midlands Ambulance Service. Reprehensible.

Pretty sure they massively failed FFP (or equivalent) to get promoted to the PL too but as they did get promoted the EFL were largely powerless to punish them & they got a tiny fine instead.

They got away with cheap skating the stadium. Then they get a Thaicoon to provide an unlimited bankroll. About the luckiest club in the country

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

It was them doing that then going up with an unaffected squad that brought in the point deductions afterwards. They've been more than lucky in the last 20 years

Frustrating thing is we could have done the same with our initial 60 million debt and avoided punishment but Richardson didn’t want his cronies missing out…

we probably would have been in a better situation if we had done

 

[fernandopartridge]

Frustrating thing is we could have done the same with our initial 60 million debt and avoided punishment but Richardson didn’t want his cronies missing out…

we probably would have been in a better situation if we had done

It's nothing to do with Richardson, he was sacked as chairman in January 2002.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

It's nothing to do with Richardson, he was sacked as chairman in January 2002.

We were 60 million in debt when we got relegated, he was Still in charge for the first season.

we should have pulled the trigger at the point of relegation.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

 

[wingy]

Mel Morris got within one game but the funny thing is they lost out to another club spending some ridiculous amount in wages too. Dependency on a billionaire's generosity is not a sustainable model

They got so close .
To the point that in the last minutes could have won only to concede in the last minutes to a breakaway.
Extremely unlucky.

 

[Danceswithhorses]

And so, as we thought at the end of last season, Wycombe owner, Robert Couhig, is again considering suing Derby, saying that Mel Morris must have known last season, the dire state of Derby's finances, and deliberately fought the case to keep the Championship money coming in this season.
I have a lot of sympathy with Rob Couhig, as Wycombe are small, well run, 25% supporter owned club, and Derby's owner has overspent massively, played fast and loose with FFP rules, and ultimately failed.

Wycombe Wanderers could launch legal action against relegation after Derby administration

Wycombe Wanderers owner Rob Couhig is considering taking legal action against their relegation to League One after Derby announced they are due to go into administration.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

And so, as we thought at the end of last season, Wycombe owner, Robert Couhig, is again considering suing Derby, saying that Mel Morris must have known last season, the dire state of Derby's finances, and deliberately fought the case to keep the Championship money coming in this season.
I have a lot of sympathy with Rob Couhig, as Wycombe are small, well run, 25% supporter owned club, and Derby's owner has overspent massively, played fast and loose with FFP rules, and ultimately failed.

Wycombe Wanderers could launch legal action against relegation after Derby administration

Wycombe Wanderers owner Rob Couhig is considering taking legal action against their relegation to League One after Derby announced they are due to go into administration.

www.bbc.co.uk

I don’t have sympathies for Wycombe. They were quite happy taking taking a technicality that got them promoted…. If we hadn’t have drew to Birmingham they wouldn’t have made the play offs

 

[clint van damme]

I don’t have sympathies for Wycombe. They were quite happy taking taking a technicality that got them promoted…. If we hadn’t have drew to Birmingham they wouldn’t have made the play offs

Taking a technicality is miles away from taking the piss like Derby have.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t have sympathies for Wycombe. They were quite happy taking taking a technicality that got them promoted…. If we hadn’t have drew to Birmingham they wouldn’t have made the play offs

So what really, they still had to get through 3 more games against the ‘better’ sides and came within a point of safety despite having less to spend than anyone. Much rather them than Derby any day

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Taking a technicality is miles away from taking the piss like Derby have.

To be fair, the EFL were ok with the Derby amortisation method up until last year. I don’t have sympathy with Derby but I don’t have it with Wycombe either.

they’re a team who got into the play offs because they didn’t have to play us. Their owner was vocal about how they couldn’t play anymore of the season, then played the play offs.

they were crap for 80% of the championship season, they didn’t deserve to stay up

 

[shepardo01]

I don’t have sympathies for Wycombe. They were quite happy taking taking a technicality that got them promoted…. If we hadn’t have drew to Birmingham they wouldn’t have made the play offs

They couldn't refuse a final league position really could they.... however it was determined...

 

[rob9872]

Wycombe gained 3rd bottom on the last day hopeful there might be a deduction. Until then were bottom all season.

 

[Danceswithhorses]

To be fair, the EFL were ok with the Derby amortisation method up until last year. I don’t have sympathy with Derby but I don’t have it with Wycombe either.
they’re a team who got into the play offs because they didn’t have to play us. Their owner was vocal about how they couldn’t play anymore of the season, then played the play offs.
they were crap for 80% of the championship season, they didn’t deserve to stay up

I don't blame Wycombe for their promotion...after all the 'calculation' wasn't decided on by them, and i'm sure they'd agree they were probably fortunate....they also may argue, that the fixture against us wasn't the foregone conclusion most Cov fans seem to think it was.
So, you don't care for underdogs then ?? ...the David vs Goliath...the potless, unfamiliar grafters vs the cheating, under achieving bigshots ?
Personally by supporting an underdog all my life, i have alot of time for other underdogs.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

And so, as we thought at the end of last season, Wycombe owner, Robert Couhig, is again considering suing Derby, saying that Mel Morris must have known last season, the dire state of Derby's finances, and deliberately fought the case to keep the Championship money coming in this season.
I have a lot of sympathy with Rob Couhig, as Wycombe are small, well run, 25% supporter owned club, and Derby's owner has overspent massively, played fast and loose with FFP rules, and ultimately failed.

Wycombe Wanderers could launch legal action against relegation after Derby administration

Wycombe Wanderers owner Rob Couhig is considering taking legal action against their relegation to League One after Derby announced they are due to go into administration.

www.bbc.co.uk

Surely Sheffield Wednesday would have every right to be pissed off too.

Cos they played Derby last game of season and of Derby were fighting for their lives to stay up. With the deduction and already being relegated they would in my my mind have lost that!

Complete and utter shambles the EFL.

 

[Frostie]

Whilst you can sympathise with Wycombe for last season, Derby's problems stem from years of systemically abusing the system so it wouldn't really be fair to simply reinstate Wycombe based on last season.
What about teams the that were relegated the year before? Or even 2018/19 when Derby beat Middlesbrough to the playoffs by 1 point? Middlesbrough could have been a PL team now but for Derby's cheating etc.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Sheff Utd managed to get a lot of cash out of West Ham for relegating them by doing much less.

I think they've got a case that deserves to be heard.

 

[long way home]

Derby will get the the deduction the EFL will tell us nothing to be seen. And in the next few months they will allow another club to follow down the same path to the same ends.

The only thing that changes is the clubs name, and different group of fan will point fingers of blame at EFL who look powerless and feckless and clubs owners who say well, we made some bad mistakes..

The workers, fans and communities are sick of hearing it but unfortunately someone else's club is fast becoming the silent next.

 

[cowboy1850]

"Derby are losing £1.5m a month"

Wow. How is this been allowed to happen both from a simple perspective, but also from a FFP perspective?

 

[fatso]

The teams that have already dropped points to Derby this season aren't going to be too happy if Derby are docked 12 points now, and cant pay their wage bill this month, which means the better players become free agents and can move on straight away!

We havnt played them yet, and we could be up against their youth team by the time that fixture comes.

The situation isnt fair to anyone really, the football authorities need to hang their heads in shame, the whole episode is a fantastic cluster fuck from start to finish!

 

[AndreasB]

The compensation paid to Cocu and his team was/is £8 Million apparently. Completely out of control for a club at this level.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I don't blame Wycombe for their promotion...after all the 'calculation' wasn't decided on by them, and i'm sure they'd agree they were probably fortunate....they also may argue, that the fixture against us wasn't the foregone conclusion most Cov fans seem to think it was.
So, you don't care for underdogs then ?? ...the David vs Goliath...the potless, unfamiliar grafters vs the cheating, under achieving bigshots ?
Personally by supporting an underdog all my life, i have alot of time for other underdogs.

Not really, Derby’s method happened years before Wycombe got into the Championship. For 90% of the season they were bottom, it only. Came to the fore after they’d been relegated.

should Derby have been given their points deduction last season? Possibly - like Sheff Weds. but if that was the case the mindset would have been different going into the last game - and Sheff Weds probably would have beaten Derby and stayed up.

and yeah that Wycombe game was a forgone conclusion - we were top of the league firing on all cylinders about to play a team we’d beaten every time in a league game and they were plummeting down the league. They benefitted from the reset before the play offs.

 

[SkyblueDad]

Losing £1.5 million a month ?? What are they paying Wayne Rooney sure I read somewhere £50k a week, surely not, £5k a week for a rookie manager would be high, although he is doing better compared to what he was a wage in the thousands of week can’t be right surely.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

The compensation paid to Cocu and his team was/is £8 Million apparently. Completely out of control for a club at this level.

And then you go and hire Rooney as player manager, completely fucking bonkers. They cant afford to get rid of him no doubt.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

Losing £1.5 million a month ?? What are they paying Wayne Rooney sure I read somewhere £50k a week, surely not, £5k a week for a rookie manager would be high, although he is doing better compared to what he was a wage in the thousands of week can’t be right surely.

It’s something ridiculous…possibly more. However, aren’t his wages being paid by their sponsor or something?
They’re in a mess alright.

 

[no_loyalty]

The compensation paid to Cocu and his team was/is £8 Million apparently. Completely out of control for a club at this level.

They also had to pay Keogh for unfair dismissal, £2M wasn’t it?

 

[Danceswithhorses]

And then you go and hire Rooney as player manager, completely fucking bonkers. They cant afford to get rid of him no doubt.

Rooney is Derby's version of our Terry Butcher period....crazy salary for a player/manager...both retired after 1 season, but kept their massive salaries...and chairmen who were massively overambitious and maybe even reckless.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Not really, Derby’s method happened years before Wycombe got into the Championship. For 90% of the season they were bottom, it only. Came to the fore after they’d been relegated.

should Derby have been given their points deduction last season? Possibly - like Sheff Weds. but if that was the case the mindset would have been different going into the last game - and Sheff Weds probably would have beaten Derby and stayed up.

and yeah that Wycombe game was a forgone conclusion - we were top of the league firing on all cylinders about to play a team we’d beaten every time in a league game and they were plummeting down the league. They benefitted from the reset before the play offs.

But if it wasn’t Wycombe who came 22nd then whoever did would he’ll be doing the same thing.

That they were bottom most of the season is irrelevant.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

But if it wasn’t Wycombe who came 22nd then whoever did would he’ll be doing the same thing.

That they were bottom most of the season is irrelevant.

true, but i just don’t buy the hard done by Wycombe story. When Derby were using their method it was Middlesbrough who ultimately suffered, not Wycombe.

and like I said before, the EFL signed off the Derby method before changing their minds.

 

[oldskyblue58]

The EFL do have a lot to answer for but there is some mitigation

1) firstly they do not have the man power or finance to monitor complicated transactions in each club. Of course it is in the interest of some owners for EFL not to be adequately funded or manned in that respect.
2) The policy on player transfers didn't change until the financial year 30 June 2016 and those accounts were not filed until 07/04/2017. Even then you have to read the accounting policies carefully to get any inkling of what they were doing. That was the year that the accounting formats changed for all Companies so looking at the accounts isnt revealing a glaring smoking gun
3) In the 2018 Financials there is the disposal of Pride Park which really threw up questions and the investigation started in earnest in 2019, but the results of previous years had rung alarm bells earlier and the EFL were already taking a look because annual losses had been at or above the limits. The 2018 Financials were filed 05/04/2019 - am assuming thats when EFL got their copies also.
4) I would suspect that the owners were not exactly co operative nor did they provide the information in a timely manner but thats a guess.
5) then the lawyers got involved and we all know how that tends to bog things down. Not to mention the accountants arguing why their incorrect interpretation of the rules was correct.
6) the transactions were complicated (deliberately so i would guess) so would take time to unravel assuming all records made available promptly
7) any investigation takes time

So it really isnt as clear cut as many fans see it or indeed the media. There were delays built in to process that the EFL were not in a position to change

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Reading set for a 9 point deduction apparently