I am talking about ring fenced funding for the soon to drop off the register tbf?
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Okay fella
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Nope, you and your daughter are wrong. @skybluetony176 says the impact will be a % of a percentage.
That’s an £88,000 cost the taxpayer versus a VAT tax take of £57,000 for the remainder of the class. That’s a net gain of -£31,000…
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Where’s that?
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Hants
Grendel
Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Your pay has reduced in real terms.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
La la land
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Strange day, nothing really has happened yet in the terms of showing how bonkers some of these candidates can be.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
It's VAT... its a value added tax.
Of course it should be applied to the sales of private education to the sharp- elbowed, well-heeled and pushy parent types...even if its just purely out of principle.
Of course it should be applied to the sales of private education to the sharp- elbowed, well-heeled and pushy parent types...even if its just purely out of principle.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
All those saved school fees can be spent in the real economy I presume
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
I would like a tax on permanent second homes. Not, as in someone who has two homes trying to sell there original after a move or sruff like this. It does happen. But those who think they are playing monopoly.
Is it China that does a 25% tax on a 2nd home, and 50% on a 3rd?
Everyone's a winner
Is it China that does a 25% tax on a 2nd home, and 50% on a 3rd?
Everyone's a winner
Of the sub continent and Dubai I heard on a radio chat show I heard!
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
My purchasing power was reduced. Inflation and wages are two independent issues. It’s a sleight of hand of term to frame things as cuts that aren’t.
Back on track, the private sector doesn’t increase its spending in line with inflation because it’s not always necessary to do. Successful private enterprises are always looking at reducing their costs and driving efficiencies. Whereas, the public sector doesn’t have that same impetus. For example, where’s the accountability for how NHS spends its money?
I hate using this example but it’s symbolic, last year the NHS trusts were hiring for Directors of ‘lived experience’ on 5-figure salaries. The Telegraph found that nearly half of the NHS’ employees are managers, administrators or unqualified assistants.
The same administrators silencing medical professional whistleblowers and so on.
I’m not an expert, but if operating costs (i.e. staff wages) is one of the biggest % of the NHS budget, it seems like there could be a lot of efficiency improvements there.
The bottom line here is that the NHS is unaccountable for how it spends its budget.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
The principle being envy.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
oooo so bitter.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep completely agree
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
No it’s about social justice
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
And that assumes none of the funds ‘saved’ get spent on VATable goods/services. The tax system isn’t quite as linear as you think.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I have friends who took their 2 kids out of private school when their energy bills doubled, their weekly shop went up 30% over the course of a few months and then their mortgage payments went through the roof. No one was blaming government policy for that. Maybe if the government didn’t crash the economy, didn’t side with energy companies and their profits over affordable energy for the masses their kids would still be in private education.
It’s bollocks that VAT was the straw that broke the camels back against a backdrop of the cost of living crisis mostly caused by incompetence in government. Anyone tells you different they’re blowing smoke up your ass.
It’s bollocks that VAT was the straw that broke the camels back against a backdrop of the cost of living crisis mostly caused by incompetence in government. Anyone tells you different they’re blowing smoke up your ass.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
At least I'm not some saddo making up horseshit about my kids school....
Couldn't be further from the truth pal. I wouldn't send my kids to a private school even if you paid me the fees....
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
By making private education more unaffordable for upper working and middle class families? If anything, a policy should be looking to make private education more affordable or accessible for working class families.
If @SIR ERNIE’s case study is replicated up and down the country, it’s a policy that’ll cost us taxpayers. The more independent schools close, the more state school places are needed.
That doesn’t improve the state sector which is the purpose of the policy. This policy doesn’t impact the kinds of people who go to public schools like Eaton, Rugby, Cheltenham and so on.
Social justice is a principle that sounds well and good. Ask yourself this, are you driven more by your envy of the rich or by your desire to help the poor?
Coming across this question was truly thought provoking and after a while, I came to realise my answer was envy rather than altruism.
In one sentence, I’ve more or less described my journey from enthusiastic Corbynista and Labour member to small ‘c’ conservative.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
I don't need to make up anything, you bitter little loser.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
You may have missed the point…
Well, £3,000 per child, per year is a steeper increase than the energy bills. It’s a 5-7 year commitment for most families if it’s just secondary school.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I’m curious, why?
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
If the VAT does actually cause some real downward pressure on applications, then maybe the private schools will have to reduce their fees accordingly.... let those glorious market forces dictate the price eh..
The private schools could maybe cut costs and employ even more random social-misfit graduates who aren't actually qualified teachers than they already do now..... whatto chaps.
The private schools could maybe cut costs and employ even more random social-misfit graduates who aren't actually qualified teachers than they already do now..... whatto chaps.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Oh well
Mine is still social justice about looking for equity in all things rather than money that has not been earned being used to subvert opportunity
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
I don't think the principle is envy but for raising the bar for everyone and not the few.
It is not about banning the option but there should be high taxation on it. After all, they are businesses in the private sector.
It is not about banning the option but there should be high taxation on it. After all, they are businesses in the private sector.
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jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Exactly....if you wanna pay for what you believe or perceive to be an upgrade on what the state already provide for free, then thats fine and dandy with me...crack on.....just pay the VAT that is rightfully due.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Is that equality of opportunity or equality of outcome?
Would you rather lower standards of educational outcomes if it meant more equity than higher standards across the board at the cost of more inequality? The two go hand in hand unfortunately. This policy is regressive, not progressive.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s not just energy though is it. Food bills up something like 30% over 18 months. That isn’t going down, inflation might be coming down but prices don’t, they just don’t go up as fast so that 30% will always be that 30% uplift. It was actually their mortgage hike that broke them. It doesn’t matter if you’re on £30K a year or £200k a year, that’s fucked up a wide scope of working people. Yes they earned a good income but they also had a sizeable mortgage that like most people they never envisioned being in a position where they couldn’t afford to pay it bar them both loosing their jobs. They were left with a very clear choice, pay the mortgage or pay the VAT exempt school fees. Some people are clearly going to have some tough decisions to make but it will be based on a combination of things. They don’t live in a vacuum their energy bills, mortgage, weekly shop have all skyrocketed and political choices by the government has contributed to all those things. Every one has to live within their means.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree at all.
You’re making this argument whilst simultaneously holding the view that this VAT increase won’t force people out private education.
To put one child through private education you’re looking at £3k per year. Secondary school is between 5-7 years so that’s a commitment of £15-21k per child in VAT alone. Thats without factoring in price increases from the schools themselves. This is a lot more than the factors you just mentioned - probably combined without doing the maths.
To me, it seems like you’re contradicting yourself here.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I’m not contradicting anything. Any one making the argument for not putting VAT on private school fees put all the onus on VAT being the straw that broke the camels back with putting no weight on the cost of living crisis facing all working families including those that send their kids to private school.
Like I said before. Why does it fall on the government to make the private school model work? What are the schools doing to make their business more accessible?
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Dianne Abbott can fuck off, she has lied about being barred.
She agreed to retire and now is trying force the party to make her the candidate.
Expel the twat.
She agreed to retire and now is trying force the party to make her the candidate.
Expel the twat.