Do you want to discuss boring politics? (234 Viewers)

Mucca Mad Boys · May 30, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
Largely funding is the issue.

How much more money do we need to give the NHS what it needs and how do we fund that?

Bear in mind the cost is already 40% of all government expenditure. The last question, how much is too much? Healthcare isn’t the only public service to fund

Ultimately, as long as healthcare is free to the point of use, I’m not attached to the NHS as an institution. If we need to go for a different, so be it.

Even Labour knows it can’t throw money at every problem which is the prevailing tone of this thread. Healthcare, education, pensions and infrastructure are all underfunded and need more money.

BusyDoughnut · May 30, 2024

David O'Day said:
yeah, even more so in person but the main gist of that tweet thread was that she had be deselected because she liked that video, it's the AS bullshit in the tweet itself that did for her. It's borderline but you can't say you have zero tolere
ance on AS behaviour and let it slide.

Huddersfield MP apologises for alleged anti-Semitic tweet

Labour's Barry Sheerman deleted the tweet and apologised "for the upset and offense I have caused".

www.bbc.co.uk

Weird that this guy was allowed to apologise and step down in his own time. Can't qwhite work out why what with the Labour Party's zero tolerance on antisemitism

Liquid Gold · May 30, 2024

I also find it incredibly uncomfortable that the last week has seen both main parties taking their pick of journalists to stand as candidates.

Shows the line between them is razor thin and we don't have a proper press holding power to account in this country, just client journalists doing press releases.

Grendel · May 30, 2024

Liquid Gold said:
I also find it incredibly uncomfortable that the last week has seen both main parties taking their pick of journalists to stand as candidates.

Shows the line between them is razor thin and we don't have a proper press holding power to account in this country, just client journalists doing press releases.

I actually agree with you that both parties are no longer fit for purpose

I have always opposed a PR system but now all we have are two zombie parties who know they will always be in power at one time or another

chiefdave · May 30, 2024

Grendel said:
I actually agree with you that both parties are no longer fit for purpose

I have always opposed a PR system but now all we have are two zombie parties who know they will always be in power at one time or another

It feels like your choice is either vote for the lesser of two evils or waste your vote. When I do those 'who should you vote for' kind of tests I pretty consistently get Greens but what's the point really of voting for them without some form of PR?

Grendel · May 30, 2024

chiefdave said:
It feels like your choice is either vote for the lesser of two evils or waste your vote. When I do those 'who should you vote for' kind of tests I pretty consistently get Greens but what's the point really of voting for them without some form of PR?

Well vote for them and if the main parties are reduced in share of vote but still have majorities things might change.

Despite the Tories catastrophic last 3 years in reality they’d run Labour close if the reform vote vanished

Liquid Gold · May 30, 2024

chiefdave said:
It feels like your choice is either vote for the lesser of two evils or waste your vote. When I do those 'who should you vote for' kind of tests I pretty consistently get Greens but what's the point really of voting for them without some form of PR?

I'm sure that was the case for the SNP until recently or Labour a century ago.

Nothing will change if we constantly go for the lesser of two evils.

fernandopartridge · May 30, 2024

Move aside Gullis, there's a new sheriff in town

Philosoraptor · May 30, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
Move aside Gullis, there's a new sheriff in town

What an absolute c**t.

clint van damme · May 30, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
Move aside Gullis, there's a new sheriff in town

Is that a spoof?

shmmeee · May 30, 2024

Ok scratch my sympathy for the ginger lad

Liquid Gold · May 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
Ok scratch my sympathy for the ginger lad

Is that actually it?

If criticising dear leader was a reason for deselection then Corbyn could have cleared the party out.

clint van damme · May 30, 2024

Liquid Gold said:
Is that actually it?

If criticising dear leader was a reason for deselection then Corbyn could have cleared the party out.

He should of, he was weak on that.

Ian1779 · May 30, 2024

Philosorapter said:
What an absolute c**t.

That what’s happens when you finish 15th out of 16 on The Apprentice and you’re just angry with the world.

Luckily Team Labour are on hand to scoop you up and give you a job for life.

shmmeee · May 30, 2024

Liquid Gold said:
Is that actually it?

If criticising dear leader was a reason for deselection then Corbyn could have cleared the party out.

No its not it, Corbyn did in fact clear the party out, mostly by forcing people out or losing their seat though.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · May 30, 2024

I’m not too keen on the greens policies on Child sexual predators. They want to rehabilitate, support and research them.

I'm personally of the opinion that they can’t be rehabilitated. The idea of them potentially being out horrifies me

Ian1779 · May 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
No its not it, Corbyn did in fact clear the party out, mostly by forcing people out or losing their seat though.

I mean who did he actually force out? The Change MP’s left of their own accord, championing a new way for politics, only to lose every seat they held.
He did lose 54 seats though, of which 52 were in constituencies that voted Leave in 2016…. It’s almost if his weakness on not adhering to his 2017 commitment on Brexit led to a reckoning from the electorate. Now only if we knew the guy that championed the second referendum policy…..

Liquid Gold · May 30, 2024

clint van damme said:
He should of, he was weak on that.

The accusation was clearly a confession

Liquid Gold · May 30, 2024

Zero tolerance

Ian1779 · May 30, 2024

Mucca Mad Boys · May 30, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
This Is an interesting blog @Mucca Mad Boys

Productivity in the operating theatre and the role of logistics

Last week I posted about the NHSE-led front page story in the Times in which the NHSE recognised the importance of improving productivity. That post provoked a lengthy comment from someone claiming…

blog.pauldcorrigan.com

This was interesting and I'm glad you shared it. One of the advantages the NHS has is its integration and centralised database of patient records. I don't think anyone can argue with the poor morale and lack of equipment impacting productivity.

It's the funding model that is unsustainable in my view. As you say, the NHS can barely afford to do 'basic functions' yet this service still accounts for 40% of the governments and it is still underfunded. Equipment, staff and infrastructure all have costs and with record demand for the service, it's costs are only going increase. If only if it was simple as throwing money at the problem.

We have record dissatisfaction with the service of the NHS provides and (probably) record low job satisfaction for its staff, everyone deserves better. The pressure on a Labour government to fix everything if (when) they get elected is huge because the convenient narrative is that the Tories have (some going as far to say deliberately) underfunded it.

Ultimately, I am not against the principle of healthcare being free at the point of use and this is principle is applied across Europe with alternative funding methods.

shmmeee · May 30, 2024

Ian1779 said:
I mean who did he actually force out? The Change MP’s left of their own accord, championing a new way for politics, only to lose every seat they held.
He did lose 54 seats though, of which 52 were in constituencies that voted Leave in 2016…. It’s almost if his weakness on not adhering to his 2017 commitment on Brexit led to a reckoning from the electorate. Now only if we knew the guy that championed the second referendum policy…..

I take it you don’t want to mention the four Jewish MPs.

We’ve been over this. There’s no evidence Brexit was the issue compared to corbyns Russia policy, which is when his rating actually started tanking (no pun intended).

StrettoBoy · May 30, 2024

chiefdave said:
Find it increasingly difficult to support Starmers Labour.

I quite agree.

The key thing about Starmer is, if you don’t like his principles or his policies, then wait until tomorrow because he will probably have different ones then.

shmmeee · May 30, 2024

Liquid Gold said:
Zero tolerance

View attachment 35910

Is this a real tweet? Doesn’t show up on his account or the way back machine or Google cache?

shmmeee · May 30, 2024

Mucca Mad Boys said:
This was interesting and I'm glad you shared it. One of the advantages the NHS has is its integration and centralised database of patient records. I don't think anyone can argue with the poor morale and lack of equipment impacting productivity.

It's the funding model that is unsustainable in my view. As you say, the NHS can barely afford to do 'basic functions' yet this service still accounts for 40% of the governments and it is still underfunded. Equipment, staff and infrastructure all have costs and with record demand for the service, it's costs are only going increase. If only if it was simple as throwing money at the problem.

We have record dissatisfaction with the service of the NHS provides and (probably) record low job satisfaction for its staff, everyone deserves better. The pressure on a Labour government to fix everything if (when) they get elected is huge because the convenient narrative is that the Tories have (some going as far to say deliberately) underfunded it.

Ultimately, I am not against the principle of healthcare being free at the point of use and this is principle is applied across Europe with alternative funding methods.

Alternative funding methods that cost the taxpayer more.

Grendel · May 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
I take it you don’t want to mention the four Jewish MPs.

We’ve been over this. There’s no evidence Brexit was the issue compared to corbyns Russia policy, which is when his rating actually started tanking (no pun intended).

Well other than the fact that Labour strongholds in the North that were pro Brexit areas elected a Tory for the first time

Those drugs you take are certainly having an effect - of talking absolute bollocks

shmmeee · May 30, 2024

In what will be amusing news to you all, I’ve just discovered that Luke Akehurst follows me on Twitter

Deleted member 9744 · May 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
Alternative funding methods that cost the taxpayer more.

Yes, those alternatives worked so well in the water and rail industries.

The NHS has been underfunded for so long and it means an unfit population which impacts on our productivity generally. We just need to fund it properly and definitely not subject it to more change.

Of course the only way to do this is to increase taxes, especially on the rich. Both parties are sticking their heads in the sand on this but if we want decent public services it's what we need to do. Problem is the tabloid press have made us into a population that instinctively opposes tax, even when we woukd be better off generally to pay more. Yes you might take home less cash but services are cheaper.

Philosoraptor · May 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
I take it you don’t want to mention the four Jewish MPs.

We’ve been over this. There’s no evidence Brexit was the issue compared to corbyns Russia policy, which is when his rating actually started tanking (no pun intended).

I think there may be other main reasons...

I really don't want to get into a discussion about this but there seemed to be another political campaign already in full swing other then the EU referendum, and its aftermath.

Over 600 councillors tell Corbyn: time to step down - LabourList

The list below was edited when it emerged that a small minority of councillors had inadvertently given approval…

labourlist.org

With the signatures including those stalwarts of the Coventry Left, Ann Lucas and Damien Gannon.

With the polls suggesting something completly different to what you are saying for this time.

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/migrations/en-uk/files/Assets/Docs/Polls/pm-may-2016-charts.pdf

David O'Day · May 30, 2024

Liquid Gold said:
Can't have any racists in the party

View attachment 35905

You may have missed the part where I said Akehurst is a c**t and an even bigger one in public.

David O'Day · May 30, 2024

Liquid Gold said:
Zero tolerance

View attachment 35910

If you are going to go on rant at me at least be correct

CCFCSteve · May 30, 2024

I’ve got to admit, I am surprised Labour have committed to not increasing the main taxes during the course of the next Parliament. Not sure it’s necessary and could come back to bite them

ps MMB makes some fair points about the NHS. I’m not getting involved in the wider debate (again) but if anyone thinks there’s no room for improvement or changes, in addition to additional investment, then they’re crazy

Ian1779 · May 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
I take it you don’t want to mention the four Jewish MPs.

We’ve been over this. There’s no evidence Brexit was the issue compared to corbyns Russia policy, which is when his rating actually started tanking (no pun intended).

The four Jewish MP’s that chose to leave and form part of Change UK?
As for the other part, your centrist hot take is no more a fact than my opinion.

Anyway we are now here in 2024, your guy is the one ambivalent on genocide, happy to endorse candidates that tried to subvert the course of justice, and as for his stance on ‘austerity’ well it seems it goes by a new name now…..

Ian1779 · May 30, 2024

Another Akehurst classic…. I can see why he’s such a catch….

skybluetony176 · May 30, 2024

I see another Tory has defected to Labour. He won’t be standing in the GE though so not sure what the point was other than to embarrass Sunak.

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