Grendel
Well-Known Member
When Natalie Elphicke is embraced into the Labour Party it’s clear Labour has no left wing at all. She’s left of Farage
Exactly. The same as the people calling Sunak LW are the Tory right.
Two questions:
1) Why is Reform overtaking the tories in the polls?
2) Why is Farage so popular among Tory members?
Also popular with traditional working class Labour voters
That is wrong as the Plaid Cymru and Green leaders were both there.Immigration is single top priority for voters so it shouldn’t be a surprise that a party that says they’re willing to address that is surging in the polls.
The political class has had over 20 years to address the concerns people have had. There’s been complacency that we won’t experience what the like of; the Netherlands, Germany, France and Italy (and others) are going through with their own political realignments.
It was also cowardly that last nights debate only contained deputies with the exception of Farage.
1) they aren’t yet but wouldn’t be surprised if they did.
Tories have lost swing voters. What’s left is die hard Tories and the rump of the Brexit vote (which is who they’re losing to RefUK)
2) Same reason Corbyn was among Labour members. Because party members tend to be wildly further to the fringe than the public. P
Sorry, who?That is wrong as the Plaid Cymru and Green leaders were both there.
Why don’t they matter the same as Con Man UK?Sorry, who?
Maybe, but that's why Corbyn was never a leader, more an activist isn't it.He was until he fudged the Brexit debate
A quick look at the polls should tell you. A debate with Starmer, Sunak, Farage and Davey is debate the public want to see.Why don’t they matter the same as Con Man UK?
And the Green Party doesn’t count why exactly?A quick look at the polls should tell you. A debate with Starmer, Sunak, Farage and Davey is debate the public want to see.
With Plaid and SNP, there’s no point in having them on national election debates as they only field candidates in Wales and Scotland respectively.
Personally, no. They’re on 7% in the polls and it looks silly having 5 candidates to go through.And the Green Party?
Whatever the case, you said it was a shame only the snake oil salesman was there as a party leader. He wasn’t, there were two others.Personally, no. They’re on 7% in the polls and it looks silly having 5 candidates to go through.
At least the Lib Dem’s are forecast to get 30-40 seats.
On point number 2, how out of step is Farage on public opinion though? Especially on immigration which scores as the most important of issues outside of cost of living. Labour will get a landslide because the electorate rejects the tories, but the electorate is hardly enthusiastic about Starmer unlike Blair. There’s a real risk that they’ve got one parliament to make progress on key issues. The red wall revolted in 2019 and could easily revolt again if they’re let down again.
I was of the believe in 2017 and 2019 that Labour should’ve done a ‘progressive coalition’ to support the Lib Dem’s and Greens v tories seats. I wouldn’t put it past Tory and Reform doing such a pact in the aftermath of a Labour landslide.
You caught me out on a technicality, well done. I’d be surprised if you didn’t realise I was in about the leaders that will actually impact the election; Sunak, Starmer and I’ll throw in Ed Davey for good measure.Whatever the case, you said it was a shame only the snake oil salesman was there as a party leader. He wasn’t, there were two others.
Let’s not forget either that Farage only jumped in as leader after being called a chicken on Question Time last week.
The Reform website still has Tice as leader. With attention to detail like that, who could wait for them in charge of the country's finances.Whatever the case, you said it was a shame only the snake oil salesman was there as a party leader. He wasn’t, there were two others.
Let’s not forget either that Farage only jumped in as leader after being called a chicken on Question Time last week.
You caught me out on a technicality, well done. I’d be surprised if you didn’t realise I was in about the leaders that will actually impact the election; Sunak, Starmer and I’ll throw in Ed Davey for good measure.
There is something very wrong with the NHS when for the same operation, you can be offered an 18 month wait OR with the very same consultant / surgeon , if you are prepared to stump up a shed load of cash you can get slotted in within a couple of months…..very often using the very same NHS operating theatres and equipmentBoris Johnson was popular with working class voters and apparently too was Major in ‘92?
The one thing I’m interested in that no one has picked up on here… Is that a leader of a party openly called for NHS to be moved to an insurance model and somehow ‘won’ the debate according to polls. In previous years, politicians would’ve been pilloried for saying this in public and Farage has even shied away from his NHS view (iirc).
That right there could be a watershed moment.
The Greens should be looking at a similar number of seats to Reform and at least have a sitting MP in the current Parliament. Might well be good for a million plus votes-it’s not irrelevant to have them there.You caught me out on a technicality, well done. I’d be surprised if you didn’t realise I was in about the leaders that will actually impact the election; Sunak, Starmer and I’ll throw in Ed Davey for good measure.
Green have nearly 800 councillors, Reform have 10. Havering Residents Association are more of a political force at present.The Greens should be looking at a similar number of seats to Reform and at least have a sitting MP in the current Parliament. Might well be good for a million plus votes-it’s not irrelevant to have them there.
Seriously considering a vote for them here anyway
Not as important. The public want to see Farage arguing for racial profiling in ethnically diverse areas.Green have nearly 800 councillors, Reform have 10.
Boris Johnson was popular with working class voters and apparently too was Major in ‘92?
The one thing I’m interested in that no one has picked up on here… Is that a leader of a party openly called for NHS to be moved to an insurance model and somehow ‘won’ the debate according to polls. In previous years, politicians would’ve been pilloried for saying this in public and Farage has even shied away from his NHS view (iirc).
That right there could be a watershed moment.
Let's see how anyone advocating an insurance based system for health care gets on.
And the more votes Farage gets, the more this will come under scrutiny and the more his nonsense will be exposed.
I've already seen a couple of his assertions regarding an insurance e based system been taken apart and of course we all know that when Farage is advocating for an insurance based system what he really means is an American style insurance based system.
He hasn’t got a plan though, has he? He’s just outlined that France’s NHS (carefully crafted sentence) gets better outcomes. There’s no detailed policy program because he isn’t going to be in a position where he’s in government in July 5th. His goal this election is to ruin the tories.
Clint, social insurance systems and the US model are not the same and you saying ‘Farage said this but actually he means that’ is just moving the goalposts. That’s not what he said. Farage is a Francophile so it comes as no surprise he’s looked at their system for inspiration. It’s probably the most palatable way to sell his message to public.
The point I’m making that a politician has attacked the NHS which is considered ‘sacrosanct’ by the public and the watching public decided he won the debate. Which is interesting.
Maybe, but that's why Corbyn was never a leader, more an activist isn't it.
Get someone leftish with leadership skills and charisma (something else Corbyn lacked - ironic he was the one who won when at least McDonnell was decisive and had a certain charisma, and Abbott until recently had a certain intellectual gravitas in there), add in a 2017-ish manifesto, and such a party would do fairly well.
Like Trump he’ll do whatever the people signing the cheques want so it would be full on US style. Still enough useful idiots to help them out sadly.
You've not read my post, I know the American and French models aren't the same, but he's not going to go in feet first and say let's move to an American based model.
Like all those who want that type of system, (due to the 'incentives' they'll receive), they'll do it by stealth.
Getting reform on the agenda is the first step.
His opinions on the NHS are largely being ignored because of other opinions he holds, particularly concerning immigration, being popular. The more success he has the more scrutiny everything he says will get.
(Checks weather for rain)Another campaign relaunch incoming?
I read and understand that but it’s typical paranoia around the subject that is blocking rational debate on healthcare reform. Every time there’s a reform, from New Labour (and probably before) to date, it’s ‘privatisation by stealth’ whenever the solution is not just giving more money. It’s easier for politicians to avoid reforming it for an easy life.
We’re not the only country that has a universal, free healthcare system. The NHS is not unique in this regard.
If the NHS doesn’t reform, there won’t be one in the future. Even Labour accepts that.
Paranoia
He's got form for this.
He was trotting out the same bollocks for UKIP and then got caught on video advocating for an American style system.
And it is stunts like that that block rational debate because everyone knows its a front for something more sinister.
There’s a difference between your personal views and what you get elected to do. Thatcher admitted she wanted to introduce charges for hospital stays and GP visits but didn’t introduce it because she campaigned specifically not to do.
He was a UKIP MP going against their policy. Of course that's pretty much how he turned the party from what it was formed to do in to the vehicle it was for his personal crusade.There’s a difference between your personal views and what you get elected to do. Thatcher admitted she wanted to introduce charges for hospital stays and GP visits but didn’t introduce it because she campaigned specifically not to do.
She didn’t keep her homophobic views from passing such legislation mind you.There’s a difference between your personal views and what you get elected to do. Thatcher admitted she wanted to introduce charges for hospital stays and GP visits but didn’t introduce it because she campaigned specifically not to do.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?