Do you want to discuss boring politics? (238 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Jun 19, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You have said improvements under virtually every metric while also accepting that he is mostly going to just tinker around the edges.

I think the whole country will breathe a sigh of relief with a change of government. There’s already 1 good indicator that things will improve with a change of government in that the markets didn’t soil their pants on the announcement of a GE and the very obvious certainty that there’s a change of government coming in July. In fact if you look at the pound it’s steadily gained in strength since the announcement. British businesses are openly welcoming a change in government not least because the Tory drama of civil war, bad leadership and bad policies of the last 9 years has made the UK an unattractive place to invest. Labour might actually not have to be that radical for changes to happen, that could happen organically simply by virtue of not being the tories.

chiefdave · Jun 19, 2024

Mucca Mad Boys said:
If Starmer and Labour win and things do improve, then the electorate would conclude that they deserve to stay in power.

Not sure that will be the case if the improvements require people to look at metrics and are only incremental improvements. Look at the US election, the difference between what is actually happening in the country and what people perceive to be happening is huge.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 19, 2024

PVA said:
Think of Starmer/Labour as Mark Robins.

Do I think we'd be better under Jurgen Klopp (ie a mythical spending plan that fixes all of the country's woes overnight)? Yes of course. But I also know Klopp is unattainable for us right now.

So I'll take Robins stopping the rot and the gradual year on year improvement.

I sure as shit don't want Kenny Jackett in charge!

Starmer is the political Gareth Southgate.

shmmeee · Jun 19, 2024

MalcSB said:
Having an English government wouldn’t be pointless at all, that way issues affecting England wouldn’t be voted on by devolved nations MPs.

Alternatively, why not just give the devolved nations independence and have an English Parliament. They would shit themselves at the loss of the Barnet formula, but let them get on with it.

So you want local councils and metro mayors and an English parliament and the two existing UK Houses of Parliament and the King?

It just seems a little politician heavy.

I don’t really see England Scotland and Wales as countries so much as one big region and two normal sized regions TBH, that’s why I think it would make sense to split England up and get rid of some of the pointless layers of govt and replace them with slimmed down versions with proper power and accountability. Right now it’s pointless voting in your local elections as most of the decisions are made in Westminster anyway, and only slightly less pointless voting in Scot/Welsh parliament or metro mayor ones.

A politician without control of a budget isn’t much of a politician at all and can always hide their performance behind the settlement with Westminster.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 19, 2024

wingy said:
Or three or fouror five!

When did we last have such an incompetent government? By all means argue ideologically, but although Major and Callaghan were riven by internal division, they themselves were vaguely competent at their heart.

Anthony Eden and Suez? And apparently he was ill at the time, so what are this lots excuses?!?

wingy · Jun 19, 2024

clint van damme said:
No hint of an interest rate deduction at the moment.

Crazy , bank's getting their cut, operative word again, get the fucker down now!!

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

shmmeee said:
21k a year disposable income makes you rich mate. The average household income after tax and benefits is £38k. So an average household sending one kid to private would have to spend almost two third on that alone leaving £17k for three people including housing.

Mortgage is £680!! Where they living??

Like I said. 14.5k a year for a kid with both parents earning 30k each is very doable.

Maybe they are sacrificing not having a big posh house in a nice area with a massive mortgage?

I just used the average mortgage amount Tony said. Some people will have lower mortgages.

The whole idea that everybody is minted is wrong, of course there will be those that are.

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
And that's if you only have one child!

Yeah but when you look at the example I gave it's doable. Would hazard a guess that a lot are only children with older parents.

shmmeee · Jun 19, 2024

Nick said:
Like I said. 14.5k a year for a kid with both parents earning 30k each is very doable.

Maybe they are sacrificing not having a big posh house in a nice area with a massive mortgage?

I just used the average mortgage amount Tony said. Some people will have lower mortgages.

The whole idea that everybody is minted is wrong, of course there will be those that are.

I think you’re stretching very doable here. And I’m sorry but again we don’t need to guess or rely on anecdotes, we have the data on who goes to private school and it’s almost exclusively the very rich.

I’m sure there are one or two who live in squalor in one bed flats, and send their kid to Henry’s. But it’s a handful at best and frankly that shouldn’t be a choice parents have to make, and only works for single kids to still an above average income household.

Fees have gone up by more than inflation recently to no complaints from this supposed legion of poverty private school parents. They can pay the 20% and if they can’t frankly their kid is probably better off having the £15k spent on their living situation than where they are 9-3 39 weeks of the year.

wingy · Jun 19, 2024

shmmeee said:
I think you’re stretching very doable here. And I’m sorry but again we don’t need to guess or rely on anecdotes, we have the data on who goes to private school and it’s almost exclusively the very rich.

I’m sure there are one or two who live in squalor in one bed flats, and send their kid to Henry’s. But it’s a handful at best and frankly that shouldn’t be a choice parents have to make, and only works for single kids to still an above average income household.

Fees have gone up by more than inflation recently to no complaints from this supposed legion of poverty private school parents. They can pay the 20% and if they can’t frankly their kid is probably better off having the £15k spent on their living situation than where they are 9-3 39 weeks of the year.

Won't most parents get the VAT back by being self employed or whatever?

shmmeee · Jun 19, 2024

wingy said:
Won't most parents get the VAT back by being self employed or whatever?

Not sure you could pass it off as a business expense.

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

shmmeee said:
I think you’re stretching very doable here. And I’m sorry but again we don’t need to guess or rely on anecdotes, we have the data on who goes to private school and it’s almost exclusively the very rich.

I’m sure there are one or two who live in squalor in one bed flats, and send their kid to Henry’s. But it’s a handful at best and frankly that shouldn’t be a choice parents have to make, and only works for single kids to still an above average income household.

Fees have gone up by more than inflation recently to no complaints from this supposed legion of poverty private school parents. They can pay the 20% and if they can’t frankly their kid is probably better off having the £15k spent on their living situation than where they are 9-3 39 weeks of the year.

I agree, parents shouldnt have to make it but some do because it's easier than moving to other areas with really good schools or risk their child getting a shite education.

Im not saying people live in Squalor either but plenty make it work. Of course there will be the totally elite level private schools where it's people born into money or who their dad is but there are a lot of hard working parents going without for their kid or kids.

Some of the vitriol and assumptions are funny though.

wingy · Jun 19, 2024

shmmeee said:
Not sure you could pass it off as a business expense.

Bet there'll be a way?
Any accountants out there?

CCFCSteve · Jun 19, 2024

duffer said:
The "spike" in borrowing costs caused by Truss's brainless right-wing wet dream of unfunded tax cuts is still very much ongoing. In fact, as more people fall off fixed rate deals, the impact on people's lives is actually still growing...

I’m not here to defend what she did, it was reckless, but it didn’t crash the economy

The ten year which most lenders use as a guide/base for lending rates spiked, settled back down but then carried on increasing due to inflation hanging around longer and BoE keeping rates higher (I’ve said numerous times they should’ve cut by now). That’s not to say Truss didn’t cause unnecessary cost for borrowers, especially around that 3-4 month period but current rates aren’t anything to do with her

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 19, 2024

shmmeee said:
I think you’re stretching very doable here. And I’m sorry but again we don’t need to guess or rely on anecdotes, we have the data on who goes to private school and it’s almost exclusively the very rich.

I’m sure there are one or two who live in squalor in one bed flats, and send their kid to Henry’s. But it’s a handful at best and frankly that shouldn’t be a choice parents have to make, and only works for single kids to still an above average income household.

Fees have gone up by more than inflation recently to no complaints from this supposed legion of poverty private school parents. They can pay the 20% and if they can’t frankly their kid is probably better off having the £15k spent on their living situation than where they are 9-3 39 weeks of the year.

I want these peoples' average salaries rather than mine!

torchomatic · Jun 19, 2024

shmmeee said:
I think you’re stretching very doable here. And I’m sorry but again we don’t need to guess or rely on anecdotes, we have the data on who goes to private school and it’s almost exclusively the very rich.

I’m sure there are one or two who live in squalor in one bed flats, and send their kid to Henry’s. But it’s a handful at best and frankly that shouldn’t be a choice parents have to make, and only works for single kids to still an above average income household.

Fees have gone up by more than inflation recently to no complaints from this supposed legion of poverty private school parents. They can pay the 20% and if they can’t frankly their kid is probably better off having the £15k spent on their living situation than where they are 9-3 39 weeks of the year.

If these "average" parents are earning £30K net each then they certainly aren't average. That would be well over £40K each gross.

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
I want these peoples' average salaries rather than mine!

2 x 30k?

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

torchomatic said:
If these "average" parents are earning £30K net each then they certainly aren't average. That would be well over £40K each gross.

I've literally shown the calculations it's you who keeps saying net and gross.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 19, 2024

Nick said:
2 x 30k?

You reckon that £16kpa on school fees on top before you even start paying for luxuries such as food, a roof over your head is doable?!? And then there's all the extra expenses on top that come with it.

I'd suggest the money would be better spent paying for some independent financial advice(!)

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
You reckon that £16kpa on school fees on top before you even start paying for luxuries such as food, a roof over your head is doable?!? And then there's all the extra expenses on top that come with it.

I'd suggest the money would be better spent paying for some independent financial advice(!)

Ok so just shy of 4k take home for both parents per month.

The example I gave is 14.5k a year, that's £1200 a month.

That leaves £2800 a month. Yes, it's doable for a single child at somewhere like I said.

If it's 5 kids and Eton, yes that's a whole different ball game isn't it.

If people are doing it. I'd suggest they don't need financial advice.

torchomatic · Jun 19, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
You reckon that £16kpa on school fees on top before you even start paying for luxuries such as food, a roof over your head is doable?!? And then there's all the extra expenses on top that come with it.

I'd suggest the money would be better spent paying for some independent financial advice(!)

And £16Kpa is one of the "cheap" private schools. It's nonsense.

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

torchomatic said:
And £16Kpa is one of the "cheap" private schools. It's nonsense.

I literally showed the maths with king Henry's as the example.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 19, 2024

torchomatic said:
And £16Kpa is one of the "cheap" private schools. It's nonsense.

We're probably under average between us (but not on the breadline in terms of combined salary) and once mortgage, eating, running two cars etc goes out the budget, there certainly ain't £16kpa left to spend on a school place!

I can see the season ticket fund appeals going in now, 'had to send my kid to private school and they slapped VAT on the place, so can you fund us a couple of tickets please?'

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 19, 2024

torchomatic said:
And £16Kpa is one of the "cheap" private schools. It's nonsense.

Deleted member 5849 said:
You reckon that £16kpa on school fees on top before you even start paying for luxuries such as food, a roof over your head is doable?!? And then there's all the extra expenses on top that come with it.

I'd suggest the money would be better spent paying for some independent financial advice(!)

shmmeee said:
I think you’re stretching very doable here. And I’m sorry but again we don’t need to guess or rely on anecdotes, we have the data on who goes to private school and it’s almost exclusively the very rich.

I’m sure there are one or two who live in squalor in one bed flats, and send their kid to Henry’s. But it’s a handful at best and frankly that shouldn’t be a choice parents have to make, and only works for single kids to still an above average income household.

Fees have gone up by more than inflation recently to no complaints from this supposed legion of poverty private school parents. They can pay the 20% and if they can’t frankly their kid is probably better off having the £15k spent on their living situation than where they are 9-3 39 weeks of the year.

Without doing a rerun of this debate, the IFS reckons the tax will raise £1.7bn whereas the Adam Smith institute reckons it will cost £1.6bn to the taxpayer.

Simple question: if the OBR forecasts the policy will cost the taxpayer (net) or raise no where near what Labour hopes… would you still support the policy?

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
We're probably under average between us (but not on the breadline in terms of combined salary) and once mortgage, eating, running two cars etc goes out the budget, there certainly ain't £16kpa left to spend on a school place!

I can see the season ticket fund appeals going in now, 'had to send my kid to private school and they slapped VAT on the place, so can you fund us a couple of tickets please?'

Depends how much you wanted to and where it is on your priorities.

Everybody has different, some have school etc higher than others. Some have the area they live, some have the car they drive etc etc.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 19, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
We're probably under average between us (but not on the breadline in terms of combined salary) and once mortgage, eating, running two cars etc goes out the budget, there certainly ain't £16kpa left to spend on a school place!

I can see the season ticket fund appeals going in now, 'had to send my kid to private school and they slapped VAT on the place, so can you fund us a couple of tickets please?'

The assumption you’re making is that people are paying for this out of their salary. You can finance things with loans/remortgaging.

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Without doing a rerun of this debate, the IFS reckons the tax will raise £1.7bn whereas the Adam Smith institute reckons it will cost £1.6bn to the taxpayer.

Simple question: if the OBR forecasts the policy will cost the taxpayer (net) or raise no where near what Labour hopes… would you still support the policy?

Where will the kids suddenly go in September when state schools are pretty much full anyway?

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 19, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
tbf, he'd have to really pull out all the stops to be as bad as the past two or three Tory leaders!

Four.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 19, 2024

Nick said:
Where will the kids suddenly go in September when state schools are pretty much full anyway?

Exactly. That’s why there are people out there criticising the policy because people will drop out from the private sector and the state sector will pick up the burden.

If the state sector is understaffed, underfunded and overcrowded, the last thing you want to do is push people from the private sector to the state sector.

It might sound counterintuitive, but it’s a moment in time where you probably want to incentivise the private sector for education and healthcare.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 19, 2024

Mucca Mad Boys said:
The assumption you’re making is that people are paying for this out of their salary. You can finance things with loans/remortgaging.

We couldn't.

torchomatic · Jun 19, 2024

Fuck me. They're getting really desperate now. It really is gutter politics from the cunts.

torchomatic · Jun 19, 2024

Mucca Mad Boys said:
The assumption you’re making is that people are paying for this out of their salary. You can finance things with loans/remortgaging.

Slippery slope. How much would a £16K loan cost, do you think? And that would just be for one year's schooling.

Sick Boy · Jun 19, 2024

torchomatic said:
Fuck me. They're getting really desperate now. It really is gutter politics from the cunts.

View attachment 36259

Oh the irony.

Nick · Jun 19, 2024

Just checking that my posts with the calculations are visible as they just get ignored while people make up other random numbers?

It seems more like a spite thing, thought it was about bringing everybody up rather than dragging everybody down?

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 19, 2024

torchomatic said:
Fuck me. They're getting really desperate now. It really is gutter politics from the cunts.

View attachment 36259

So ironic after Russia's supposed meddling in the Brexit referendum and support for Trump.

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