Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Where were you between 1998 and 2015?

I was in the UK. Which begs the question where were you?

In that period highest UK net migration in a single year was 329K, the lowest was 140K, the average was 206K.

The last 3 years average 612K a year . Another way to look at it is the entire net migration total from 2008 to 2015 was the same as net migration from 2021 to 2023.

Brexit isn’t working, we’re full, let’s rejoin the EU instead.

 

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[PVA]

I suspect he can afford a lot of rent.

Your rather stupid behaviour of portraying people with different views to you of lacking wealth and intellect says a lot more about your insecurity than his.

Fucking hell this from the man who continually calls other people poor and mocks people for not being able to afford things (whether genuine or not).

 

[MalcSB]

I was in the UK. Which begs the question where were you?

In that period highest UK net migration in a single year was 329K, the lowest was 140K, the average was 206K.

The last 3 years average 612K a year . Another way to look at it is the entire net migration total from 2008 to 2015 was the same as net migration from 2021 to 2023.

Brexit isn’t working, we’re full, let’s rejoin the EU instead.

I’m not sure that will be an option.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Immigration is used as a distraction by parties

Here's an interesting video which I think could be helpful for some of you in here. Probably a bit less echo-chamber, and a bit more real world.

Oh yes, i bet this bloke doesn't live in any right wing grift echo chamber, no sirreee

 

[MalcSB]

Immigration is used as a distraction by parties


Oh yes, i bet this bloke doesn't live in any right wing grift echo chamber, no sirreee

As opposed to a left wing grift echo chamber. Or SBT.

 

[Ian1779]

However, demonising people who want lower immigration and calling them racist has become ridiculous

Given that the left parties essentially campaign for open borders

So after highlighting your issue that people are making sweeping statements devoid of any critical thinking, you do exactly the same in the very next paragraph.

 

[PVA]

I see the Tories have literally given up now and 'please don't give Labour a supermajority' is all they've got left.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So after highlighting your issue that people are making sweeping statements devoid of any critical thinking, you do exactly the same in the very next paragraph.

You're surprised?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

You're surprised?

Rent free...

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Immigration is used as a distraction by parties


Oh yes, i bet this bloke doesn't live in any right wing grift echo chamber, no sirreee

Funnily enough he says at the end that he doesn't expect people to listen, just double down and put the lid tighter on the pressure cooker.

I mean, congratulations for being the first one.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, I agree with you on this. No one has come up with any credible answers. However, demonising people who want lower immigration and calling them racist has become ridiculous to the extent that now many more right wing parties are winning more votes because people have had enough of being belittled and will just say 'fuck off' and go and vote for them anyway. It isn't just that people are thick and drink the kool aid of people like Nick Griffin.

Given that the left parties essentially campaign for open borders, how are they realistically going to get any traction. It's getting stupid, and very polarised. On another thread we've got people saying half the USA are racist because they're voting for Donald Trump. Most normal people cannot take that type of thing seriously I'm afraid.

Why has immigration sharply increased despite us having left the EU? Wasn’t Brexit the silver bullet to this problem according to those campaigning in favour?

Genuine questions.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Why has immigration sharply increased despite us having left the EU? Wasn’t Brexit the silver bullet to this problem according to those campaigning in favour?

Genuine questions.

It is a genuine question. The answer is not 'rejoin the EU' though. As much as many remainers are gagging on it. It's pretty sad and pathetic actually.

Clearly the way the UK is being governed alongside the way the deal has been done is a massive problem. Amongst other world events since 2020. It isn't like we had EU officials suddenly picket line our border posts when we left is it? Look at the activity since 1998, and you'll see the level of relevance if it is really desired (I know it isn't).

 

[djr8369]

Like this is just racism. “The invasion continues” cos 85 people washed up.

It’s incredible how much discourse over the last few years has been dedicated to the idea that you can’t call racists racist, you can’t call fascists fascist and any criticism of cultural figures on the right is “cancel culture”.

It surely amounts to weaponised propaganda.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It is a genuine question. The answer is not 'rejoin the EU' though. As much as many remainers are gagging on it. It's pretty sad and pathetic actually.

Clearly the way the UK is being governed alongside the way the deal has been done is a massive problem. Amongst other world events since 2020. It isn't like we had EU officials suddenly picket line our border posts when we left is it? Look at the activity since 1998, and you'll see the level of relevance if it is really desired (I know it isn't).

A quick search brought up this from the ONS. I’m not sure where the easy answer to the question lies despite what Sunak and Farage claim

Long-term international migration, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Official statistics (in development) of UK international migration, year ending (YE) June 2012 to YE June 2023; estimates from YE December 2022 and YE June 2023 are provisional and will be updated when more complete data are available.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

A quick search brought up this from the ONS. I’m not sure where the easy answer to the question lies despite what Sunak and Farage claim

Long-term international migration, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Official statistics (in development) of UK international migration, year ending (YE) June 2012 to YE June 2023; estimates from YE December 2022 and YE June 2023 are provisional and will be updated when more complete data are available.

www.ons.gov.uk

I agree with you regarding Sunak but again, it was only stable in the sense it has been consistently out of control since the late 90's. It's gone up a gear again recently, but the key is to look over the last 25/30 years.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I agree with you regarding Sunak but again, it was only stable in the sense it has been consistently out of control since the late 90's. It's gone up a gear again recently, but the key is to look over the last 25/30 years.

My assumption without looking too much is it is a mixture of students plus a combination of low paid and skilled workers doing jobs that we can’t or won’t fill ourselves. That and a whole spate of serious conflicts driving people to seek asylum.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

My assumption without looking too much is it is a mixture of students plus a combination of low paid and skilled workers doing jobs that we can’t or won’t fill ourselves. That and a whole spate of serious conflicts driving people to seek asylum.

It's complicated, but a lot of people move here for a better life. I don't begrudge that at all, it's really the system that needs looking at in that case.

I genuinely don't think most people have a problem with immigration, certainly they aren't racist, so it frustrates me when that's the go to. It's more the level of numbers I think.

Thanks for engaging so nicely by the way.

 

[clint van damme]

It is a genuine question. The answer is not 'rejoin the EU' though. As much as many remainers are gagging on it. It's pretty sad and pathetic actually.

Clearly the way the UK is being governed alongside the way the deal has been done is a massive problem. Amongst other world events since 2020. It isn't like we had EU officials suddenly picket line our border posts when we left is it? Look at the activity since 1998, and you'll see the level of relevance if it is really desired (I know it isn't).

I would say there's very little appetite to rejoin the EU.

If there's was such an appetite to rejoin, it would be in someones manifesto surely?

It's not because it wouldn't be a vote winner .

 

[wingy]

IDK, surely we're depleting the resources of others in an inhospible hellhole.
Is that rascst or not.

 

[skybluetony176]

It is a genuine question. The answer is not 'rejoin the EU' though. As much as many remainers are gagging on it. It's pretty sad and pathetic actually.

Clearly the way the UK is being governed alongside the way the deal has been done is a massive problem. Amongst other world events since 2020. It isn't like we had EU officials suddenly picket line our border posts when we left is it? Look at the activity since 1998, and you'll see the level of relevance if it is really desired (I know it isn't).

I was clearly being pedantic but just look at how wrong you were. You have literally no idea what immigration currently is or what it was before Brexit. You’ve allowed yourself to shape an opinion based on nothing. Now that’s is sad and pathetic.

They blew smoke up everyone’s arse over immigration, they took everyone for idiots and they still do. You’re happy to indulge them in that when all you had to do was go on line and see the official statistics. You were convinced that the numbers were higher in a certain period prior to the Brexit referendum, they weren’t. We were more in control of immigration before we left the EU, that’s just basic facts. We had fluid immigration with a population of about 500M, we now have static immigration with 8B. 1.2M people immigrated into the UK in 2022 alone. The silver bullet was a dud, people like you need to educate yourself.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I would say there's very little appetite to rejoin the EU.

If there's was such an appetite to rejoin, it would be in someones manifesto surely?

It's not because it wouldn't be a vote winner .

I know mate, just referencing what someone said above.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I was clearly being pedantic but just look at how wrong you were. You have literally no idea what immigration currently is or what it was before Brexit. You’ve allowed yourself to shape an opinion based on nothing. Now that’s is sad and pathetic.

They blew smoke up everyone’s arse over immigration, they took everyone for idiots and they still do. You’re happy to indulge them in that when all you had to do was go on line and see the official statistics. You were convinced that the numbers were higher in a certain period prior to the Brexit referendum, they weren’t. We were more in control of immigration before we left the EU, that’s just basic facts. We had fluid immigration with a population of about 500M, we now have static immigration with 8B. 1.2M people immigrated into the UK in 2022 alone. The silver bullet was a dud, people like you need to educate yourself.

What have I been wrong on? I've literally served you up on a plate and you're still talking complete bollocks.
Look at immigration since 1998 ( when we were in the EU), also, learn what the EU do and don't do for border control. We haven't had any control over immigration for decades. 'Look at the statistics' - fucking howling. I think you need to!

You are so obsessed with brexit you just talk complete and utter shit.

 

[skybluetony176]

What have I been wrong on? I've literally served you up on a plate and you're still talking complete bollocks.
Look at immigration since 1998 ( when we were in the EU), also, learn what the EU do and don't do for border control. We haven't had any control over immigration for decades. 'Look at the statistics' - fucking howling. I think you need to!

You are so obsessed with brexit you just talk complete and utter shit.

1998 net migration in the UK was 164K
2022 net migration in the UK was 745K

almost half a million more.

You’re as delusional as you are stupid.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

. We were more in control of immigration before we left the EU, that’s just basic facts

That clearly depends on your definition of "control".

Even though its a shit show, atleast, in theory, they have a rough handle on the numbers, whereas no-one had any fucking clue how many eu citizens were in the UK.... a fact nicely illustrated by the pressure group for eu citizens post brexit calling themselves "the 3 milllion"....

......yet nearly 6 million were already here and applied to stay.....

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

1998 net migration in the UK was 164K
2022 net migration in the UK was 745K

almost half a million more.

You’re as delusional as you are stupid.

Look at all the graphs, statistics, curves, etc. Everything you told me to look at. You'll notice an upward pattern from the 90's. No one gave a fuck about immigration before then and rightly so. Stop focusing on one year to get your brexit boner and look at the full picture.

You are literally the forum clown. Not surprising you never post on football matters. This is genuinely hilarious. Please carry on.

 

[skybluetony176]

Look at all the graphs, statistics, curves, etc. Everything you told me to look at. You'll notice an upward pattern from the 90's. No one gave a fuck about immigration before then and rightly so. Stop focusing on one year to get your brexit boner and look at the full picture.

You are literally the forum clown. Not surprising you never post on football matters. This is genuinely hilarious. Please carry on.

You said 1998 not me. I gave you the average over the initial period you quoted, I gave you the peak number and the trough number for that period, they all dismiss your theory. It mostly raised then plateaued for a while in that period. The figures from that period also largely represent growth in the UK economy. Final year before 2020 and Covid shutting the world down and also our final year in the EU was 184K net. 2021 was 466K net, you could be forgiven for thinking that was just a correction for the lack of migration in 2020 but no. 2022 was the record 745K, promptly followed by 2023 at 685K. It doesn’t matter how big the picture is the stats don’t lie. We’ve basically just had 8 years of migration while we were in the EU in 3 years while being outside of the EU.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

The figures for numbers on eu immigration before brexit are/ were all horseshit guestimates....millions more were already here....far more than anyone expected....that is now a documented fact based on the numbers who applied to stay.

...so continually quoting those numbers is pointless Tony.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The figures for numbers on eu immigration before brexit are/ were all horseshit guestimates....millions more were already here....far more than anyone expected....that is now a documented fact based on the numbers who applied to stay.

...so continually quoting those numbers is pointless Tony.

He's a clueless buffoon.

 

[shmmeee]

It's complicated, but a lot of people move here for a better life. I don't begrudge that at all, it's really the system that needs looking at in that case.

I genuinely don't think most people have a problem with immigration, certainly they aren't racist, so it frustrates me when that's the go to. It's more the level of numbers I think.

Thanks for engaging so nicely by the way.

Whats “the system”? We get fuck loads of workers and students in cos we want fuck loads of workers and students. That’s the system working as it should. If the numbers are too high we need to decide as a nation which industries or unis were going to tell to go to the wall. Some on the right are doing that already claiming most unis should shut down. It’s a claim but I don’t see it being very popular. Ultimately the only things to consistently beat immigration as a voter concern are health and the economy, so the only solution is to tell a bunch of British kids they can’t go to uni, and then end up bringing more in as skilled workers.

 

[MalcSB]

Whats “the system”? We get fuck loads of workers and students in cos we want fuck loads of workers and students. That’s the system working as it should. If the numbers are too high we need to decide as a nation which industries or unis were going to tell to go to the wall. Some on the right are doing that already claiming most unis should shut down. It’s a claim but I don’t see it being very popular. Ultimately the only things to consistently beat immigration as a voter concern are health and the economy, so the only solution is to tell a bunch of British kids they can’t go to uni, and then end up bringing more in as skilled workers.

Do we want fuck loads of students? I think you said in an earlier post that foreign students subsidise UK students. I dont think that was always the case. Blair’s push to get lots more young people to go to university ended up with numerous courses of dubious ultimate value to the student whilst universities have developed in to big businesses. Student accommodation must be a major income stream for whoever owns it - there has been so much built.

Perhaps the university system could do with slimming down. Just think what all those buildings and halls of residence could be converted to in pursuit of your increased city population density agenda.

 

[David O'Day]

The MRP today looks really bad for the tories

 

[djr8369]

Do we want fuck loads of students? I think you said in an earlier post that foreign students subsidise UK students. I dont think that was always the case. Blair’s push to get lots more young people to go to university ended up with numerous courses of dubious ultimate value to the student whilst universities have developed in to big businesses. Student accommodation must be a major income stream for whoever owns it - there has been so much built.

Perhaps the university system could do with slimming down. Just think what all those buildings and halls of residence could be converted to in pursuit of your increased city population density agenda.

The point is most of the anti immigration types aren’t actually making suggestions like this. As you point out, uni is business and someone profits from student accommodation. That’s money into the economy. Are we going to turn that away just because roughly a third of the nation don’t like the idea of immigrants?

Our economy is struggling. The reason successive governments haven’t tackled immigration is because it props it up.

 

[PVA]

The MRP today looks really bad for the tories

Ohh just seen that, 318 seat majority

 

[Nick]

Surely there's a play on words on "anti immigration" as it can mean lots of different things without context?

 

[skybluetony176]

The figures for numbers on eu immigration before brexit are/ were all horseshit guestimates....millions more were already here....far more than anyone expected....that is now a documented fact based on the numbers who applied to stay.

...so continually quoting those numbers is pointless Tony.

They weren’t guesstimated at all. They’re based on the NI and benefits data bases. Which is exactly the same method we use today. It’s all on the ONS Website.