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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (191 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,246
fernandopartridge said:
This is from a financial advisor's website so unsure on real source. State pensions across Europe:

View attachment 37251
Click to expand...
Don't get old in Armenia is the takeaway from that!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,247
CCFCSteve said:
Been saying for years there should be a bursary and/or refund system for tuition fees for certain subjects and jobs as part of a wider industrial strategy.

For certain public sector jobs ie teachers or nurses it could be part of an agreement to gradually write off tuition fees after years served. More years you serve in public sector, more written off

I think there is already some support for nurses but more just grants/bursary, no tie in which doesn’t make sense to me
Click to expand...
On the flip side, my ex worked for the NHS. They paid her fees to go to Uni for 3 years, she continued to get her salary and they had to pay for someone to cover her for 3 years.

There was absolutely nothing in place to say she had to work a single day for NHS after completing the degree.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,248
shmmeee said:
It is austerity. They backed themselves into a corner on tax, all that’s left is austerity. Should have just reversed the NI cuts really.
Click to expand...
At least they will find it difficult to do anything about the two child benefit cap. Won’t be able to blame the unfounded cost pressures on the Tories.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,249
chiefdave said:
On the flip side, my ex worked for the NHS. They paid her fees to go to Uni for 3 years, she continued to get her salary and they had to pay for someone to cover her for 3 years.

There was absolutely nothing in place to say she had to work a single day for NHS after completing the degree.
Click to expand...

 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,250
fernandopartridge said:
This is from a financial advisor's website so unsure on real source. State pensions across Europe:

View attachment 37251
Click to expand...
I wonder why pensions are so many multiples of cost of living in Luxembourg? EU?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,251
MalcSB said:
I wonder why pensions are so many multiples of cost of living in Luxembourg? EU?
Click to expand...

Because the Luxembourg government chooses to pay pensions that highly is the only reason, it's state pension so nothing to do with the EU.

The UK government chooses not to pay pensions and instead chooses to spend a lot more money treating ailments associated with poor health and poor standards of living for some old people.

It chooses to give some old people the illusion of wealth through property inflation rather than actual money.
 
Reactions: duffer

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,252
fernandopartridge said:
Because the Luxembourg government chooses to pay pensions that highly is the only reason, it's state pension so nothing to do with the EU.

The UK government chooses not to pay pensions and instead chooses to spend a lot more money treating ailments associated with poor health and poor standards of living for some old people.

It chooses to give some old people the illusion of wealth through property inflation rather than actual money.
Click to expand...

Also, think average salaries in Luxembourg are quite high. Whether that's down to lots of EU associated work I don't know.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,253
fernandopartridge said:
Because the Luxembourg government chooses to pay pensions that highly is the only reason, it's state pension so nothing to do with the EU.

The UK government chooses not to pay pensions and instead chooses to spend a lot more money treating ailments associated with poor health and poor standards of living for some old people.

It chooses to give some old people the illusion of wealth through property inflation rather than actual money.
Click to expand...

I think it’s a bit more complex than that. I’m not sure about luxumborg specifically but with other nations employees and/or employers are required to pay more into the state pension pot over the employees working life. This would impact their take home pay during their career

We now have compulsory private pensions with companies having to pay in set amounts and contributions matched (this amount should be rolled into the state pension comparison really as it’s compulsory). I believe our standard company pensions are higher than some and also don’t know what countries tax reliefs are on employee contributions. we also know public sector workers have excellent private pensions

How Much is the UK State Pension Compared? | Profile Pensions

The UK state pension gives valuable peace of mind that regardless of any other pension arrangements. But how much is it when compared to the rest of the world?
www.profilepensions.co.uk

an example…

‘Pre-tax rates for the full pension in Spain are more than 81% of the gross annual salary, the highest rate in Europe. Pensions are funded by contributions from both employees (4.7% of salary) and employers (23.6% of a worker’s salary). Self-employed people must pay all of their contributions’

I’m not saying ours are great but comparisons are not always like for like and everything needs to be taken in the round. As you say many pensioners have built up value in their property rather than maybe paying into a pension, the equity of which can be released later in life
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,254
CCFCSteve said:
I think it’s a bit more complex than that. I’m not sure about luxumborg specifically but with other nations employees and/or employers are required to pay more into the state pension pot over the employees working life. This would impact their take home pay during their career

We now have compulsory private pensions with companies having to pay in set amounts and contributions matched (this amount should be rolled into the state pension comparison really as it’s compulsory). I believe our standard company pensions are higher than some and also don’t know what countries tax reliefs are on employee contributions. we also know public sector workers have excellent private pensions

How Much is the UK State Pension Compared? | Profile Pensions

The UK state pension gives valuable peace of mind that regardless of any other pension arrangements. But how much is it when compared to the rest of the world?
www.profilepensions.co.uk

an example…

‘Pre-tax rates for the full pension in Spain are more than 81% of the gross annual salary, the highest rate in Europe. Pensions are funded by contributions from both employees (4.7% of salary) and employers (23.6% of a worker’s salary). Self-employed people must pay all of their contributions’

I’m not saying ours are great but comparisons are not always like for like and everything needs to be taken in the round. As you say many pensioners have built up value in their property rather than maybe paying into a pension, the equity of which can be released later in life
Click to expand...
Interesting comparison with Spain. NHS pension contributions by employees is 5.2% to 12.5% and employers is 23.7%. Certainly don’t receive anything approaching 81% of gross annual salary.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,255
MalcSB said:
Interesting comparison with Spain. NHS pension contributions by employees is 5.2% to 12.5% and employers is 23.7%. Certainly don’t receive anything approaching 81% of gross annual salary.
Click to expand...

I suppose you roll state pension and nhs pension together though to make a fairer comparison. I was just saying the structure of pensions, contributions etc appears different in every nation
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,256
CCFCSteve said:
I suppose you roll state pension and nhs pension together though to make a fairer comparison. I was just saying the structure of pensions, contributions etc appears different in every nation
Click to expand...
If so, you would have to add NI contributions, employee and employer, to the numbers I quoted.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2024
  • #42,257
fernandopartridge said:
And it seems to me, I'll live my life, with a candle for my light
Click to expand...
I thought it would be some one stole my light tonight. Didn't they!!
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge
O

OffenhamSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2024
  • #42,258
I think they mean "cut for the first time since Liz Truss's barking mad budget". It was rolling along nicely at less than 0.5% for years before that

Interest rates cut 'important moment', says Bank of England boss

The Bank of England cuts borrowing costs from 5.25% to 5% in the first drop for more than four years.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Reactions: wingy
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 2, 2024
  • #42,259
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
I think they mean "cut for the first time since Liz Truss's barking mad budget". It was rolling along nicely at less than 0.5% for years before that

Interest rates cut 'important moment', says Bank of England boss

The Bank of England cuts borrowing costs from 5.25% to 5% in the first drop for more than four years.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

That’s a bit unfair. She was one crazy lady but rates had already started to increase and were already at 2-2.25% when she became PM. They were subsequently raised due to continued inflation which was a global issue. Truss did probably cost the country billions due to a spike in government bond yields/borrowing costs caused by mini budget and subsequent ‘moron premium’ but Sunak and hunt settled this down. BoE rates really increased due to persistent inflation though.

Ps good news for people looking at new mortgages the 10 year which some
Lenders use as a bit of a steer on their mortgage rates is now down to 3.9%
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 2, 2024
  • #42,260
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
I think they mean "cut for the first time since Liz Truss's barking mad budget". It was rolling along nicely at less than 0.5% for years before that

Interest rates cut 'important moment', says Bank of England boss

The Bank of England cuts borrowing costs from 5.25% to 5% in the first drop for more than four years.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
It was only a matter of minutes from this being announced to the first article I saw that was 'of course this won't mean mortgage rates will come down'. Always the same with anything, quick to go up, slow to come back down.
 
Reactions: torchomatic

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 2, 2024
  • #42,261
chiefdave said:
It was only a matter of minutes from this being announced to the first article I saw that was 'of course this won't mean mortgage rates will come down'. Always the same with anything, quick to go up, slow to come back down.
Click to expand...
Savings rates on the other hand will come down today !
 
Reactions: torchomatic, clint van damme, CCFCSteve and 3 others
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 2, 2024
  • #42,262
chiefdave said:
It was only a matter of minutes from this being announced to the first article I saw that was 'of course this won't mean mortgage rates will come down'. Always the same with anything, quick to go up, slow to come back down.
Click to expand...
It will they already did in advance of to this, on New borrowing anyway!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 2, 2024
  • #42,263
Mcbean said:
Savings rates on the other hand will come down today !
Click to expand...
Already had that email about my savings account!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 2, 2024
  • #42,264
This doesn't seem a great way to promote tech investment and push for growth

Government shelves £1.3bn UK tech and AI plans

The future of a number of major products - including a new UK supercomputer - are now in doubt.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Reactions: OffenhamSkyBlue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 2, 2024
  • #42,265
chiefdave said:
This doesn't seem a great way to promote tech investment and push for growth

Government shelves £1.3bn UK tech and AI plans

The future of a number of major products - including a new UK supercomputer - are now in doubt.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
This is what happens when bean counters are allowed to have too much influence.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 2, 2024
  • #42,266
chiefdave said:
This doesn't seem a great way to promote tech investment and push for growth

Government shelves £1.3bn UK tech and AI plans

The future of a number of major products - including a new UK supercomputer - are now in doubt.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

Yes and no, need to look at the details but Sunak got dazzled by a load of nonsense from tech founders on this so wouldn’t be surprised if there’s fat to cut. I think things like getting data centres built is more important, the area isn’t lacking in research funds and only about five big tech companies world wide have the scale to train leading edge models.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 3, 2024
  • #42,267
 
Reactions: wingy and torchomatic

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 7, 2024
  • #42,268
@Brighton Sky Blue

 
Reactions: Sick Boy, Ian1779 and skybluetony176
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 7, 2024
  • #42,269
shmmeee said:
@Brighton Sky Blue

Click to expand...
Much more from 2010 onwards needs repealing than just that, but it’s a start. I do trust Rayner on this if she’s allowed free rein over it.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 7, 2024
  • #42,270
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Much more from 2010 onwards needs repealing than just that, but it’s a start. I do trust Rayner on this if she’s allowed free rein over it.
Click to expand...

I do believe your prediction was they wouldn’t repeal anything. Agreed a good start.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 7, 2024
  • #42,271
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Much more from 2010 onwards needs repealing than just that, but it’s a start. I do trust Rayner on this if she’s allowed free rein over it.
Click to expand...
I was reading that the right to strike isn’t enshrined in UK law.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 8, 2024
  • #42,272
shmmeee said:
I do believe your prediction was they wouldn’t repeal anything. Agreed a good start.
Click to expand...
It got lost in everything else, but I meant to say that I’m no fan of Reeves as you know, but she had the good sense to recognise that not giving teachers the pay deal would be a lot more costly than doing so.
 
Reactions: torchomatic and Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 8, 2024
  • #42,273
skybluetony176 said:
I was reading that the right to strike isn’t enshrined in UK law.
Click to expand...
The 2023 legislation is especially egregious, but there have been several rounds of anti union laws passed since 2010. As a minimum, all of these need to be repealed.

While the laws on striking are important though, it’s the ones on collective bargaining that should be looked at a lot more heavily.
 
Reactions: torchomatic and skybluetony176

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 8, 2024
  • #42,274
Ian1779 said:
It got lost in everything else, but I meant to say that I’m no fan of Reeves as you know, but she had the good sense to recognise that not giving teachers the pay deal would be a lot more costly than doing so.
Click to expand...

Im not a fan, but this base level of competence it what you get from any Labour chancellor as they aren’t beholden to mental ideology.
 
Reactions: PVA
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 8, 2024
  • #42,275
shmmeee said:
Im not a fan, but this base level of competence it what you get from any Labour chancellor as they aren’t beholden to mental ideology.
Click to expand...
It also stands to reason that actually talking to unions and coming to the table with them leads to strike action getting sorted much sooner.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 8, 2024
  • #42,276
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It also stands to reason that actually talking to unions and coming to the table with them leads to strike action getting sorted much sooner.
Click to expand...
Very true. Capitulation sorts strike action out really quickly.

Train drivers next.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 8, 2024
  • #42,277
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It also stands to reason that actually talking to unions and coming to the table with them leads to strike action getting sorted much sooner.
Click to expand...
Coincidentally, the union I'm in is going to ballot us for strike action in the next few weeks.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 8, 2024
  • #42,278
MalcSB said:
Very true. Capitulation sorts strike action out really quickly.

Train drivers next.
Click to expand...

It's hardly 'capitulation' to settle a long term dispute with a compromise, especially where the costs to everybody of the dispute continuing accumulate.

It's funny really, Tories agree with the idea of the market setting the price of goods and services until it's the labour market.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 8, 2024
  • #42,279
MalcSB said:
Very true. Capitulation sorts strike action out really quickly.

Train drivers next.
Click to expand...
What you call capitulation, I would call negotiation.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 8, 2024
  • #42,280
fernandopartridge said:
It's hardly 'capitulation' to settle a long term dispute with a compromise, especially where the costs to everybody of the dispute continuing accumulate.

It's funny really, Tories agree with the idea of the market setting the price of goods and services until it's the labour market.
Click to expand...
What was the compromise with the junior doctors, for example? More productivity?

What will be the compromise with rail unions? Modernisation of working practices?
 
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