Do you want to discuss boring politics? (51 Viewers)

rob9872 · Oct 30, 2024

Nick said:
I was just saying it in response to that about tax payers not helping pensioners.

If I am told to work hard, pay into my pension, pay my taxes etc and when I get to 65 it's "Oh nah you're going to need to work 10 more years, the state aren't helping you and if you have paid off your mortgage and die your daughter is going to get hammered with tax on the house" doesn't really sound as good?

Some people really seem to have issue with the older generation.

Yep can't argue with that. Told to save and invest. I have a house that is only worth what it is whist I'm in it and as you say daughter will get hammered when I pass it on. Crap savings rate on what I put aside and my pension plan wont last if they remove or keep pushing up the age for state pension.

Currently also fed up with seeing minimum wage rising and ers NI rising meaning no real rise for employees as businesses can't afford it, unless you're in the public sector of course. I get that's where Labour's core votes come from so looking after them is to be expected, but also a bit cronyism which they're supposedly against. Once again middle earners forgotten with no raise on the outdate £50k threshold meaning even more fiscal drag. Pretty uninspiring first budget for me and all I see is whataboutery despite them having had full access to the numbers whilst in opposition, so to now claim they keep finding stuff is clealry bollocks. So much for putting more in workers pockets.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Oct 30, 2024

Nick said:
I was just saying it in response to that about tax payers not helping pensioners.

If I am told to work hard, pay into my pension, pay my taxes etc and when I get to 65 it's "Oh nah you're going to need to work 10 more years, the state aren't helping you and if you have paid off your mortgage and die your daughter is going to get hammered with tax on the house" doesn't really sound as good?

Some people really seem to have issue with the older generation.

Becuase younger people are presumably fed up at being told “cut down Netflix and stop drinking costa coffee- then you can afford a deposit on a house”

all whilst they got theirs for 50p and and a bag of crisps.

there’s also the issue of birthrates going down and the country getting older, we don’t pay for our pensions we pay for the current pensioners, and as there is less working age people and more people getting older younger people are getting taxed to high heaven to pay for a generation who has ultimately benefitted far more than any other generation

I’m lucky i own my own house, but I’d hate to be in a position some younger people are in. We’re often told we’re in this together but let’s face it with the triple lock that’s hardly true

rob9872 · Oct 30, 2024

Surely the increase in house prices is basic economics of supply and demand. we have more people in the country now than back then, meaning less housing available. Yes prices were cheaper, but wages were less and often only one income as mums generally stayed at home. Lower divorce rates would have also meant generally a traditional family unit all under a single roof.

You can blame the older generation for some things, but their only benefit really is the advance in medical care which I take as a good thing for us all and the increase in house prices which isnt their fault and of no benefit to them until they sell up and down-size. Everything else is simply jealousy by a generation (of which I am part) who arent prepared to mend and make do but want everything and want it now. Cars, phones, TV etc in addition to subscriptions that you mention.

MalcSB · Oct 30, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Becuase younger people are presumably fed up at being told “cut down Netflix and stop drinking costa coffee- then you can afford a deposit on a house”

all whilst they got theirs for 50p and and a bag of crisps.

there’s also the issue of birthrates going down and the country getting older, we don’t pay for our pensions we pay for the current pensioners, and as there is less working age people and more people getting older younger people are getting taxed to high heaven to pay for a generation who has ultimately benefitted far more than any other generation

I’m lucky i own my own house, but I’d hate to be in a position some younger people are in. We’re often told we’re in this together but let’s face it with the triple lock that’s hardly true

Very good advice.

MalcSB · Oct 30, 2024

Everything will be fine, this is a budget for growth that will fix the foundations of broken Britain.

mmttww · Oct 30, 2024

Nick said:
There should be an opt out on paying for certain things...

That's a slippery slope, Nick.

You advocating that people pay more towards the NHS if you treat your body like sh*t?

The cost of administering something as complex as you're suggesting would be insane.

MalcSB · Oct 30, 2024

mmttww said:
That's a slippery slope, Nick.

You advocating that people pay more towards the NHS if you treat your body like sh*t?

The cost of administering something as complex as you're suggesting would be insane.

Compared to those who treat there body as a temple, Smokers pay more, vapers will soon be paying more as well. Drinkers pay more. Should put a 20% tax on junk food, McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Subway etc. to address the obese.

shmmeee · Oct 30, 2024

rob9872 said:
Surely the increase in house prices is basic economics of supply and demand. we have more people in the country now than back then, meaning less housing available. Yes prices were cheaper, but wages were less and often only one income as mums generally stayed at home. Lower divorce rates would have also meant generally a traditional family unit all under a single roof.

You can blame the older generation for some things, but their only benefit really is the advance in medical care which I take as a good thing for us all and the increase in house prices which isnt their fault and of no benefit to them until they sell up and down-size. Everything else is simply jealousy by a generation (of which I am part) who arent prepared to mend and make do but want everything and want it now. Cars, phones, TV etc in addition to subscriptions that you mention.

A gish gallop of bollocks I’m afraid. House prices have been increasing before immigration the change in building was the Town and Country Planning Act that restricted supply. That was post war.

we judge house price on wage to price ratio so wages being less is taken into account. It’s sky rocketed by this measure:

The wealthy are very keen to keep supply down and their asset values up. That’s why they are high: because whenever someone tries to build all the OAPs get out with complaints about their dog walking area or “not enough services” or any other bollocks.

Boomers had: triple lock, free uni education, sufficient social housing, a better economy and cheaper house prices. They’ve then set about as the largest voting block their entire life making politicians keep all their advantages and screw over everyone else.

Those are just the facts.

shmmeee · Oct 30, 2024

Nick said:
There should be an opt out on paying for certain things.

No kids - you arent paying for education

Let's face it, while we are saying OAPs cant think to rely on their care from the tax payer we are sending billions to Ukraine and billions on hotels for asylum seekers.

It's "fuck you, I know you have worked hard all of your life and saved and paid tax but no more."

Where's the motivation for people to do well?

The motivation to do well if you get more money mate. You don’t also need the entire political system set up to advantage you.

The “billions to Ukraine” is almost all military equipment. Does Doris need a rocket launcher?

You spout endless bullshit you’ve picked up off Twitter or whatever. But it doesn’t stand the least bit of scrutiny. Yeah let’s give people an opt out on tax. Fucking genius.

shmmeee · Oct 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
Compared to those who treat there body as a temple, Smokers pay more, vapers will soon be paying more as well. Drinkers pay more. Should put a 20% tax on junk food, McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Subway etc. to address the obese.

Smokers and drinkers tend to die early. Most cost is late life care. If anything we should be taxing gyms.

stupot07 · Oct 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
A gish gallop of bollocks I’m afraid. House prices have been increasing before immigration the change in building was the Town and Country Planning Act that restricted supply. That was post war.

we judge house price on wage to price ratio so wages being less is taken into account. It’s sky rocketed by this measure:

View attachment 39093

The wealthy are very keen to keep supply down and their asset values up. That’s why they are high: because whenever someone tries to build all the OAPs get out with complaints about their dog walking area or “not enough services” or any other bollocks.

Boomers had: triple lock, free uni education, sufficient social housing, a better economy and cheaper house prices. They’ve then set about as the largest voting block their entire life making politicians keep all their advantages and screw over everyone else.

Those are just the facts.

Grendel · Oct 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
The motivation to do well if you get more money mate. You don’t also need the entire political system set up to advantage you.

The “billions to Ukraine” is almost all military equipment. Does Doris need a rocket launcher?

You spout endless bullshit you’ve picked up off Twitter or whatever. But it doesn’t stand the least bit of scrutiny. Yeah let’s give people an opt out on tax. Fucking genius.

You created a thread to get advice on how to avoid tax

Nick · Oct 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
The motivation to do well if you get more money mate. You don’t also need the entire political system set up to advantage you.

The “billions to Ukraine” is almost all military equipment. Does Doris need a rocket launcher?

You spout endless bullshit you’ve picked up off Twitter or whatever. But it doesn’t stand the least bit of scrutiny. Yeah let’s give people an opt out on tax. Fucking genius.

No, Doris doesn't need a rocket launcher. She needs to not die from being cold.

Maybe if we didn't get involved in every other c**t's war we wouldn't have an immigration issue. The irony is that there's no issue with the political system setup for thousands of blokes who illegally entered the country on a boat. £3bn a year spent on hotels alone, isn't it?

Yes and there's a limit where you really want to stop progressing because it isn't really worth it. Based on what you keep saying because if I do well in life and get to 65 you would be shouting for it to be taken from me and to give it up. Then when I die everything I worked hard for should just be taxed like fuck. Add in that I've also been taxed like fuck for close to 50 years of my life.

I might even work my arse off to pay my mortgage to rent where I am out and buy somewhere nicer, then I'd be a landlord and I should just let people live here for free and act how they want. (because I'm a landlord).

Still, there are people coming to Coventry who have shit loads of kids with no intention to ever work who are demanding massive places to live without paying anything. (This isn't from Twitter).

Yeah maybe we should be able to opt out of certain taxes / contributions as long as there are alternatives.

MalcSB · Oct 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
A gish gallop of bollocks I’m afraid. House prices have been increasing before immigration the change in building was the Town and Country Planning Act that restricted supply. That was post war.

we judge house price on wage to price ratio so wages being less is taken into account. It’s sky rocketed by this measure:

View attachment 39093

The wealthy are very keen to keep supply down and their asset values up. That’s why they are high: because whenever someone tries to build all the OAPs get out with complaints about their dog walking area or “not enough services” or any other bollocks.

Boomers had: triple lock, free uni education, sufficient social housing, a better economy and cheaper house prices. They’ve then set about as the largest voting block their entire life making politicians keep all their advantages and screw over everyone else.

Those are just the facts.

Boomers also had low wages and astonishingly high interest rates. Didn’t Blair introduce university tuition fees In 1998? Brown sold all the gold at rock bottom price and fucked private pensions.

Amazing how OAPs can be so effective when they aren’t basically organised.

Not enough services is a reasonable cause for objection, I’m not so sure about preservation of the great crested newt (For example).

Would house prices be so high if there were 1 million less people in the UK?

At least you know we boomers will all be dead soon enough and the following generations will act in an entirely different and less self serving manner.

Nick · Oct 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
At least you know we boomers will all be dead soon enough and the following generations will act in an entirely different and less self serving manner.

Yeah and when you die you can't complain about social housing being on your doorstep after years of working hard to be away from it. How dare you oppose.

Ccfcisparks · Oct 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
Boomers also had low wages and astonishingly high interest rates. Didn’t Blair introduce university tuition fees In 1998? Brown sold all the gold at rock bottom price and fucked private pensions.

Amazing how OAPs can be so effective when they aren’t basically organised.

Not enough services is a reasonable cause for objection, I’m not so sure about preservation of the great crested newt (For example).

Would house prices be so high if there were 1 million less people in the UK?

At least you know we boomers will all be dead soon enough and the following generations will act in an entirely different and less self serving manner.

Low wages is only a useful metric when compared to real world price of things at that time

fatso · Oct 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
Boomers had: triple lock, free uni education, sufficient social housing, a better economy and cheaper house prices. They’ve then set about as the largest voting block their entire life making politicians keep all their advantages and screw over everyone else.

Those are just the facts.

What you've obviously chosen to ignore is that the boomers were paying extortionate interest rates back in the day.
When I bought my first property (2 bed maisonette) I was playing 15% interest rates, which meant the percentage of my wage that was eaten up by my mortgage was almost exactly the same as my daughter is paying today for her new 2 bed flat.

In the last 10/15 years we've seen historically low interest rates, which has made home ownership more obtainable.

The last time so many working people had the opportunity to buy was when Margaret Thatcher bought in the "right to buy" policy, which was a massive opportunity for working people.

Part of the reason the demand for housing is currently so high, is undoubtedly down to the effect of net migration (legal or otherwise)
You simply can't sit by and happily accept the current level of immigration on one hand, and then moan about the cost of housing on the other.

And that my friend, is a real fact.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Oct 30, 2024

fatso said:
What you've obviously chosen to ignore is that the boomers were paying extortionate interest rates back in the day.
When I bought my first property (2 bed maisonette) I was playing 15% interest rates, which meant the percentage of my wage that was eaten up by my mortgage was almost exactly the same as my daughter is paying today for her new 2 bed flat.

In the last 10/15 years we've seen historically low interest rates, which has made home ownership more obtainable.

The last time so many working people had the opportunity to buy was when Margaret Thatcher bought in the "right to buy" policy, which was a massive opportunity for working people.

Part of the reason the demand for housing is currently so high, is undoubtedly down to the effect of net migration (legal or otherwise)
You simply can't sit by and happily accept the current level of immigration on one hand, and then moan about the cost of housing on the other.

And that my friend, is a real fact.

The interest rate of 15% on a 10k house is a lot less than 6% on a 250k house.

also selling off the housing stock without rebuilding has led to the housing crisis.

boomers would definitely be the pull the ladder up generation, and are now surprised the millennials and latest generation aren’t thanking them for that

Nick · Oct 30, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
The interest rate of 15% on a 10k house is a lot less than 6% on a 250k house.

also selling off the housing stock without rebuilding has led to the housing crisis.

boomers would definitely be the pull the ladder up generation, and are now surprised the millennials and latest generation aren’t thanking them for that

What's wrong with somebody spending £150k on a terrace for their first buy? Why does it have to be £250k? Why are people going straight in for the semi detached in a quiet cul-de-sac in a nice area for their first house?

They could have a much lower mortgage or a much lower term with the same monthly payments?

MalcSB · Oct 30, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
The interest rate of 15% on a 10k house is a lot less than 6% on a 250k house.

also selling off the housing stock without rebuilding has led to the housing crisis.

boomers would definitely be the pull the ladder up generation, and are now surprised the millennials and latest generation aren’t thanking them for that

Mortgage rates were a lot lower than that for a very long time over recent years and 6% looks quite high (4.29% fixed for 2 years from Halifax) . The house I had when mortgage rates were at 15% cost about £105,000. So interest payments were higher. Icing on the cake is that the house was sold 3 years later for £70,000. Nationwide house price calculator reckons it would be worth £300k today.

What generation is Rayner? sounds like she will be pulling up the ladder in respect of right to buy.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Oct 30, 2024

Nick said:
What's wrong with somebody spending £150k on a terrace for their first buy? Why does it have to be £250k?

Was going on rough average house price. Point stands - 6% will still be more on 150k house

Nick · Oct 30, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Was going on rough average house price. Point stands - 6% will still be more on 150k house

I was just on about Coventry as an example, obviously if it was London etc it would be silly money.

If people are shopping in Earlsdon for their first house buy and getting upset because people are saying "give up the costa coffee" for example then I'm not sure what to suggest.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Oct 30, 2024

Nick said:
I was just on about Coventry as an example, obviously if it was London etc it would be silly money.

If people are shopping in Earlsdon for their first house buy and getting upset because people are saying "give up the costa coffee" for example then I'm not sure what to suggest.

It’s a generalisation, I can find 100s of interviews where that advice is levelled. We’re at the highest point of taxation for the working class in history. Energy costs are sky high - lack of housing stock is causing an increase is prices everywhere, and the competition is levelled at people getting buy to let mortgages that are then charging
Extortionate rent, this is happening everywhere.. not just earlsdon

Wage stagnation hasn’t helped either. I’ve no sympathy for a generation that spent the last 14 years pulling the ladder up and are now being shafted themselves

Ccfcisparks · Oct 30, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Was going on rough average house price. Point stands - 6% will still be more on 150k house

Still need to find the deposit money on a 150k house. Very rare to put down less than 10%. Saving £15k, when you are on £30k, no partner and rent is very difficult.

Nick · Oct 30, 2024

Ccfcisparks said:
Still need to find the deposit money on a 150k house. Very rare to put down less than 10%. Saving £15k, when you are on £30k, no partner and rent is very difficult.

Yeah it would be a good 5 years minimum to save £15k realistically

mmttww · Oct 30, 2024

Interest rates were artificially lowered to reflect that no one could afford to buy at the insane levels prices had reached.

Income multiples had to be scrapped for the same reason. Like someone else said, that wasn't to help people new on the ladder.

It was to prevent a collapse in the value of homes people had got used to using like piggy banks and get rich quick assets.

I can't wait until no one mentions 15% rates in isolation to deflect from the fact that the cost of living is bonkers now vs. then.

rob9872 · Oct 30, 2024

You're all focusing on house prices. As I said on my initial post, what good is that to them unless they downsize and free up their cash? It's gone up in value whilst they've been in it. I'm sure some of you would rather the old were homeless instead, I imagine you'll think differently when it's you.

Nick · Oct 30, 2024

rob9872 said:
You're all focusing on house prices. As I said on my initial post, what good is that to them unless they downsize and free up their cash? It's gone up in value whilst they've been in it. I'm sure some of you would rather the old were homeless instead, I imagine you'll think differently when it's you.

Although Bungalows aren't cheap to downsize...

Ccfcisparks · Oct 30, 2024

rob9872 said:
You're all focusing on house prices. As I said on my initial post, what good is that to them unless they downsize and free up their cash? It's gone up in value whilst they've been in it. I'm sure some of you would rather the old were homeless instead, I imagine you'll think differently when it's you.

I can’t imagine people in my generation won’t be working when they are 70+ to pay for their housing

rob9872 · Oct 30, 2024

Ccfcisparks said:
I can’t imagine people in my generation won’t be working when they are 70+ to pay for their housing

Probably will be is that the fault of the old for them or you? It's a fekkin joke this conversation is even happening.

Ccfcisparks · Oct 30, 2024

rob9872 said:
Probably will be is that the fault of the old for them or you? It's a fekkin joke this conversation is even happening.

Well it isn’t the fault of my generation that’s for certain.

Nick · Oct 30, 2024

Ccfcisparks said:
Well it isn’t the fault of my generation that’s for certain.

How old are you? I imagine 35-40?

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Oct 30, 2024

rob9872 said:
Probably will be is that the fault of the old for them or you? It's a fekkin joke this conversation is even happening.

Arguably is. The constant pressure on this generation telling them not to have kids if they can’t afford them, then shafting them with NIMBYism and voting on policies that are to their detriment has led to low birth rates meaning this generation isn’t going to have a generation big enough to pay their pensions

Ccfcisparks · Oct 30, 2024

Nick said:
How old are you? I imagine 35-40?

I’m 26

mmttww · Oct 30, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Arguably is. The constant pressure on this generation telling them not to have kids if they can’t afford them, then shafting them with NIMBYism and voting on policies that are to their detriment has led to low birth rates meaning this generation isn’t going to have a generation big enough to pay their pensions

but interest rates were 15% for a while once!

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