Do you want to discuss boring politics? (51 Viewers)

[Nick]

Boomers are blamed cos they’ve been the biggest voting block their entire life. They are baby boomers after all so there’s more of them than any other generation. So if anyone is to blame it’s them as the people the politicians work for.

Doesn't everybody vote for what benefits them the most? Isn't that the point?

Maybe we should blame those who voted for governments who went to war for the deaths too?

 

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[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Doesn't everybody vote for what benefits them the most? Isn't that the point?

That’s true, but then when you inevitably have a party geared towards them and not the working class it’s creates anger that the workers are being shafted time and time again.

Only to be told cut out the Netflix and avocados. It’s tone deaf ignoring the concerns of the people who pay their pensions.

the phrase “they’ve paid into their pensions all their life” is bollocks - you paid in for the previous generation not your own.

now the biggest voting block is being shafted it’s “won’t someone think of the pensioners” why should they when they’ve been sticking two fingers up to everyone else previously

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Doesn't everybody vote for what benefits them the most? Isn't that the point?

Yes, and that’s why we are where we are, with the next generation fucked over before they even start. Which is kind of the entire point and why I said that the word ‘blame’- while understandable- probably doesn’t help because in all likelihood we’d all have done the same. The issue is that now they tend to deny, try to say they had it just as hard & then make out in a silly manner that it’s all someone else’s fault- the millennials just want too many trainers, Netflix, go to Starbucks too much etc, or the old favourite “it’s because there’s too many immigrants”. It comes across as incredibly selfish and they have to expect some backlash while they complain about things like winter fuel payments.

 

[fernandopartridge]

This is just completely facile, Streeting has absolutely zero concept of reality:

Streeting suggests social care companies won't be compensated for extra costs generated by national insurance hike​

Wes Streeting, the health secretary, has suggested that social care companies will not be compensated for rise in employers’ national insurance.

In an interview on Radio 4’s World at One, asked if the NHS would be compensated for having to pay national insurance, Streeting said the NHS was “the biggest employer in the land” and that the chancellor had made allowance for this in the budget.

Asked if that would also apply to GPs and to private firms providing NHS services, Streeting said:

Of course there are a number of others involved in delivering health services that will be affected by employer national insurance contributions. I’m working through that now, and I’ll have more to say about that in the coming weeks in terms of what we can do more quickly to deliver the shift I’ve wanted to see for some time, [getting] NHS investment spending out of hospitals into primary care.

Asked again if private companies, and social care companies, which are also having to pay a higher minimum wage, would have to pay the extra national insurance, Streeting said:

Bear in mind, as well, in terms of the increases in local government funding, the £600m allocated to social care in the budget, the chancellor has taken into account those pressures when making budget decisions.

Sarah Montague, the presenter, said that, according to the care sector, the chancellor had definitely not taken those costs into account. She said Care England has claimed the care sector faces extra costs worth £2.4bn as a result of the minimum wage and national insurance increases. She said £600m would not “even touch the sides”.

Streeting said there were various measures in the budget that would help this sector, like the boost to special educational needs funding.

When it was put to him that he seemed to be saying that, while the NHS would be refunded for the national insurance increase, private healthcare companies would not get help, Streeting just repeated his point about wanting to shift more care into primary care.

Montague said: “We’ll take that as a no.”

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[Nick]

That’s true, but then when you inevitably have a party geared towards them and not the working class it’s creates anger that the workers are being shafted time and time again.

Only to be told cut out the Netflix and avocados. It’s tone deaf ignoring the concerns of the people who pay their pensions.

the phrase “they’ve paid into their pensions all their life” is bollocks - you paid in for the previous generation not your own.

now the biggest voting block is being shafted it’s “won’t someone think of the pensioners” why should they when they’ve been sticking two fingers up to everyone else previously

Which party is for the working class?

Like I said, its fine to have vitriol for this against oaps but you can't mention immigration.

"Sticking fingers up"?

I'm far from being an OAP and it's laughable really. Was the same when I said if people cut out a Costa every day and make their own they would save a decent whack but "why would they"

 

[Nick]

Yes, and that’s why we are where we are, with the next generation fucked over before they even start. Which is kind of the entire point and why I said that the word ‘blame’- while understandable- probably doesn’t help because in all likelihood we’d all have done the same. The issue is that now they tend to deny, try to say they had it just as hard & then make out in a silly manner that it’s all someone else’s fault- the millennials just want too many trainers, Netflix, go to Starbucks too much etc, or the old favourite “it’s because there’s too many immigrants”. It comes across as incredibly selfish and they have to expect some backlash while they complain about things like winter fuel payments.

There's massive irony about it being "somebody else's fault" isn't there?

I'm a millennial, yes I'd love to not pay any tax and get a free house and never pay interest on things. People have to do what they need to do with the cards they are dealt.

If people are winging they can't buy a house because of oaps and are throwing a fiver at a Starbucks on their way into work then they probably do need to have a word with themselves and look at what they can do themselves.

Yeah. It pisses me off that people get a free ride, I'm never going to get one so have to work hard to get by.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Which party is for the working class?

Like I said, its fine to have vitriol for this against oaps but you can't mention immigration.

"Sticking fingers up"?

I'm far from being an OAP and it's laughable really. Was the same when I said if people cut out a Costa every day and make their own they would save a decent whack but "why would they"

I didn’t say you did I - the regular comments are cut out Netflix etc, holidays.

we can have the conversation about immigration if you want? It’s not easy - regardless of what the far right want - you can’t just turn the boat around or leave them to die. We’re signed up to numerous treaties stopping us.

we did have the Dublin agreement where we could send them back to France. But we left that as a result of Brexit.

now I don’t agree with a border command, but they need to get legal routes set up so the applications can be be processed. They need to clear the backlog

 

[wingy]

Which party is for the working class?

Like I said, its fine to have vitriol for this against oaps but you can't mention immigration.

"Sticking fingers up"?

I'm far from being an OAP and it's laughable really. Was the same when I said if people cut out a Costa every day and make their own they would save a decent whack but "why would they"

Because it's the age of subscription as much as anything?

 

[Nick]

I didn’t say you did I - the regular comments are cut out Netflix etc, holidays.

we can have the conversation about immigration if you want? It’s not easy - regardless of what the far right want - you can’t just turn the boat around or leave them to die. We’re signed up to numerous treaties stopping us.

we did have the Dublin agreement where we could send them back to France. But we left that as a result of Brexit.

now I don’t agree with a border command, but they need to get legal routes set up so the applications can be be processed. They need to clear the backlog

What's up with cutting out holidays to save? I haven't had an actual holiday in about 9 years.

I agree, everybody needs to be processed and either sent away or told to integrate and make the best from the opportunity they are given. Then if they fuck up or commit crime there are deported.

 

[Nick]

Because it's the age of subscription as much as anything?

Subscription to the political party?

 

[chiefdave]

If people are winging they can't buy a house because of oaps and are throwing a fiver at a Starbucks on their way into work then they probably do need to have a word with themselves and look at what they can do themselves.

Is this really a thing a lot of people do? I can't recall a single person in my office every bringing in a Starbucks let alone every day. They're also seeing a huge slump in sales.

Not sure if this is actually a genuine thing a significant number of people do or just something that has been made up.

 

[wingy]

Subscription to the political party?

No the obligation to partake in economic affairs!

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

What's up with cutting out holidays to save? I haven't had an actual holiday in about 9 years.

I agree, everybody needs to be processed and either sent away or told to integrate and make the best from the opportunity they are given. Then if they fuck up or commit crime there are deported.

Most people aren’t - when you make £1500 p/m and the rent is. £900 a month you’ve got £600 for food, energy and basic necessities.

people aren’t taking holidays. That’s the point. the boomers as it were assume if you stopped doing that you’d get a deposit. Netflix is £8 a month. Cancel that - it isn’t getting you a deposit any time soon is it.

Let’s take the same logic and apply it to winter fuel payments.

if they stopped buying tea and coffee and just drank water they’d be able to afford heating.

in terms of immigration - that’s the issue, they can’t process them quick enough. Once they’re processed - if they’re successful they can join the workforce and pay tax. Can’t do that whilst you’re sitting on your arse for 3 years waiting for your application to be heard

fully agree with you on the crime one. But that’s a totally different argument as to why we can or can’t deport

 

[Nick]

Is this really a thing a lot of people do? I can't recall a single person in my office every bringing in a Starbucks let alone every day. They're also seeing a huge slump in sales.

Not sure if this is actually a genuine thing a significant number of people do or just something that has been made up.

In my office. There's a lot of people who are probably late 20s who work in different departments. One in my team who's late 20s who buys lunch every day.

There's a lot of them who will be out getting lunch every day and coming in with coffees in the morning. Probably more Costa than Starbucks though to be fair.

(Obviously it's not everybody but it's usually the older ones with the packed lunch).

 

[Nick]

Most people aren’t - when you make £1500 p/m and the rent is. £900 a month you’ve got £600 for food, energy and basic necessities.

people aren’t taking holidays. That’s the point. the boomers as it were assume if you stopped doing that you’d get a deposit. Netflix is £8 a month. Cancel that - it isn’t getting you a deposit any time soon is it.

Let’s take the same logic and apply it to winter fuel payments.

if they stopped buying tea and coffee and just drank water they’d be able to afford heating.

in terms of immigration - that’s the issue, they can’t process them quick enough. Once they’re processed - if they’re successful they can join the workforce and pay tax. Can’t do that whilst you’re sitting on your arse for 3 years waiting for your application to be heard

fully agree with you on the crime one. But that’s a totally different argument as to why we can or can’t deport

I can only go off my mindset and what I'd do so it's probably a lot different.

On £1500 a month, living on my own I wouldn't be paying £900 rent in the first place. I'd look for somewhere where it's about 600 and put some away for a deposit.

I'm not saying it isn't hard work and there are sacrifices sometimes though.

There are still lots of people who are millennials who manage to do it though.

 

[rob9872]

It's not just starbucks and lunches though etc its wanting everything now too. Albeit £10on costa and meal deal is £2,500 per anum.

I'm guilty of it too. I also have a car on finance not the car I can afford from savings, when I wanted my bathroom doing or a conservatory adding, did I wait until I'd saved for it? No, I took a loan and had them immediately and paid them afterwards. Big tv, nice watch more than I should afford, waste thousands watching the City all over the country, going for expensive nights out or meals in nice restaurants. All of that could have gone towards my high mortgage, I choose not to.

My parents on the other hand, if they couldn't afford it they didn't have it. Mum cooked from scratch every night, dad always worked, apart from the times the unions took him out on strike, then working 2-3 days and doing his best to keep food on the table and a roof over our head. He moved to a lower paid job to keep that going rather than let us all suffer. Mum made lots of things around the house and dad put in shelves, cupboards, fencing etc etc, cars have only been to get from A to B not because they looked nice and family holidays were by the sea in the UK. I respect them so much for it and wouldnt change a thing.

They werent alone. Yes there are some rich old people, there are also some rich young people. Some of them have 2, 3 or more homes, most only have 1. They plan to leave that to me and my brother as I plan to leave mine to our daughter. I saw my parents struggles and they were typical of their generation to all the people I know' so to read that they had it all easy and fekked it up for a younger generation is pretty unpalatable.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I can only go off my mindset and what I'd do so it's probably a lot different.

On £1500 a month, living on my own I wouldn't be paying £900 rent in the first place. I'd look for somewhere where it's about 600 and put some away for a deposit.

I'm not saying it isn't hard work and there are sacrifices sometimes though.

There are still lots of people who are millennials who manage to do it though.

You’re like me you own somewhere. Rents are sky high. And you’re competing with 3/4 different people. It’s not as simple as looking for a cheap place.

if for example you have kids you’re looking for a 2/3 bedroom.

As I’ve said - I’ve been lucky, got a decent job and got on the housing ladder with a 110k property and a deposit from my grandad. That deposit is a pain to save for

you’ve also got car insurance to pay - and you’re looking at nearly 1k a year now if you’re a youngster

 

[Nick]

It's not just starbucks and lunches though etc its wanting everything now too. Albeit £10on costa and meal deal is £2,500 per anum.

I'm guilty of it too. I also have a car on finance not the car I can afford from savings, when I wanted my bathroom doing or a conservatory adding, did I wait until I'd saved for it? No, I took a loan and had them immediately and paid them afterwards. Big tv, nice watch more than I should afford, waste thousands watching the City all over the country, going for expensive nights out or meals in nice restaurants. All of that could have gone towards my high mortgage, I choose not to.

My parents on the other hand, if they couldn't afford it they didn't have it. Mum cooked from scratch every night, dad always worked, apart from the times the unions took him out on strike, then working 2-3 days and doing his best to keep food on the table and a roof over our head. He moved to a lower paid job to keep that going rather than let us all suffer. Mum made lots of things around the house and dad put in shelves, cupboards, fencing etc etc, cars have only been to get from A to B not because they looked nice and family holidays were by the sea in the UK. I respect them so much for it and wouldnt change a thing.

They werent alone. Yes there are some rich old people, there are also some rich young people. Some of them have 2, 3 or more homes, most only have 1. They plan to leave that to me and my brother as I plan to leave mine to our daughter. I saw my parents struggles and they were typical of their generation to all the people I know' so to read that they had it all easy and fekked it up for a younger generation is pretty unpalatable.

Agree with that as well.

Was it as easy to get financed up on things back in the day? Klarna, Store Cards, Paypal Credit etc.

I remember being totally baffled when I was a kid that somebody was paying somebody else to paint their living room rather than their parents doing it. Rich Fuckers.

 

[rob9872]

Agree with that as well.

Was it as easy to get financed up on things back in the day? Klarna, Store Cards, Paypal Credit etc.

I remember being totally baffled when I was a kid that somebody was paying somebody else to paint their living room rather than their parents doing it. Rich Fuckers.

Yep the same. Mum and dad between them never had tradesmen because they couldnt afford them. Tehy painted, wallpapered, learnt basic electrics and plumbing. The only thing dad wont touch is gas, but that's ok because we couldn't afford central heating! Second hand clothes or passed down from my brother a lot of the time too. We had underwear and shoes new that was pretty much it as kids.

 

[Nick]

You’re like me you own somewhere. Rents are sky high. And you’re competing with 3/4 different people. It’s not as simple as looking for a cheap place.

if for example you have kids you’re looking for a 2/3 bedroom.

As I’ve said - I’ve been lucky, got a decent job and got on the housing ladder with a 110k property and a deposit from my grandad. That deposit is a pain to save for

I was in a similar situation that I had to quickly find somewhere to live when having a baby on the way and refusing to rent because I saw it as "dead money". I bought an absolute shithole that had been repossessed for 60k and made it liveable (did a lot of work ourselves with the help of mates). Then over the years when I could afford it or as I had a better wage it was done to a much nicer standard. I did what I had to do to provide somewhere to live that was safe, warm and dry and eventually it was really nice when I could afford the new kitchen with walls knocked through etc.

This was about 15 years ago now so I know it's changed a fair bit since then. If I had to do it again now, I wouldn't be looking at £250k semis or anything like that, I'd do the same again (although it wouldn't be £60k).

Absolutely no chance I'd consider having multiple kids with a household income of £20k though.

 

[shmmeee]

It doesn't at all. As soon as the public sector spends money, either through paying somebody a salary, or paying a supplier, it is putting money into the private sector. That is an indisputable fact. If the government reduces the amount of money the public sector spends, it reduces money in the private sector.

What productivity measure are you using?

You have to accept that in an ageing population, you are always going to spend more and more on public services to serve the needs of those older people. It pretty much mean that public spending will increase in real terms year on year.

Every country on the planet is at or close to their biggest tax burden.

It’s simple demographics as you say. Society is older, being old costs the public purse a lot of money, fewer tax payers need to pay more or you need to cut the support you give to th elderly.

 

[Nick]

Yep the same. Mum and dad between them never had tradesmen because they couldnt afford them. Tehy painted, wallpapered, learnt basic electrics and plumbing. The only thing dad wont touch is gas, but that's ok because we couldn't afford central heating! Second hand clothes or passed down from my brother a lot of the time too. We had underwear and shoes new that was pretty much it as kids.

I am the same now to be fair, I hate getting trades people in for stuff I could do.

I'd rather spend shit loads of time learning how to wallpaper and doing it myself than pay somebody. One of my mates finds it madness because I get paid more than I'd pay somebody would to decorate for me. So thinks I should just work in my trade more and pay somebody, I don't see it like that.

There are even people who get paid to put flat pack furniture together, I get it for people with disabilities etc but what the fuck? Why?

 

[shmmeee]

I'd rather spend shit loads of time learning how to wallpaper and doing it myself than pay somebody. One of my mates finds it madness because I get paid more than I'd pay somebody would to decorate for me. So thinks I should just work in my trade more and pay somebody, I don't see it like that.

That’s a hobby for you and that’s fine but specialisation of labour is kinda the underpinning concept of a modern economy.

 

[shmmeee]

Nick out here soldering his own iPhone because he’s a proper man.

 

[Nick]

Nick out here soldering his own iPhone because he’s a proper man.

I'd probably give it a go but I'm shit at soldering, haven't got a steady enough hand to do the tiny stuff.

I'd pay somebody now that I'm big time but I'd still be annoyed I had to.

I will do stuff on the car myself where I can although I probably could do brake pads and discs etc I am too scared just in case.

Maybe im just a stingy, stubborn bastard. Is everybody else paying decorators and other basic DIY stuff?

 

[Nick]

That’s a hobby for you and that’s fine but specialisation of labour is kinda the underpinning concept of a modern economy.

I'm not sure it's a hobby. I wouldn't say I enjoy spending my time wallpapering or replacing taps but I've done both in the past month.

I'm physically able to. I have no doubt a pro could do it in a fraction of the time but it's done.

Stuff like that is so much easier nowadays because of YouTube as well.

 

[shmmeee]

I was in a similar situation that I had to quickly find somewhere to live when having a baby on the way and refusing to rent because I saw it as "dead money". I bought an absolute shithole that had been repossessed for 60k and made it liveable (did a lot of work ourselves with the help of mates). Then over the years when I could afford it or as I had a better wage it was done to a much nicer standard. I did what I had to do to provide somewhere to live that was safe, warm and dry and eventually it was really nice when I could afford the new kitchen with walls knocked through etc.

This was about 15 years ago now so I know it's changed a fair bit since then. If I had to do it again now, I wouldn't be looking at £250k semis or anything like that, I'd do the same again (although it wouldn't be £60k).

Absolutely no chance I'd consider having multiple kids with a household income of £20k though.

I did the same in 2007 so about the same time. Got a 2 up 2 down in foleshill, stripped and redecorated/plumbing/electrics etc.

I got that house off a family friend and even then was out bid by a flipper, I only got it because the seller wanted a family to live there and took less money.

I bought post divorce three years ago, different market but got gazumped by drive by investor bidders three times on similar sorts of properties (run down needs renovation), and these were over £100k but not particularly huge houses in Bedworth.

Ended up probably overpaying because I was desperate. That was lockdown though so very unusual market I guess.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm not sure it's a hobby. I wouldn't say I enjoy spending my time wallpapering or replacing taps but I've done both in the past month.

I'm physically able to. I have no doubt a pro could do it in a fraction of the time but it's done.

Stuff like that is so much easier nowadays because of YouTube as well.

I don’t disagree, I do most of my own stuff, but in reality I don’t know why. The iPhone was a joke but we accept specialised labour for other stuff. Maybe decorating/plumbing doesn’t feel like a real skill set so you think you can pick it up? Personally I’ve been burned by shitty tradesmen so much I’m not even convinced they’ll do a better job half the time.

But technically I should be earning more doing what I’m good at and paying someone to do what they’re good at.

 

[Nick]

I did the same in 2007 so about the same time. Got a 2 up 2 down in foleshill, stripped and redecorated/plumbing/electrics etc.

I got that house off a family friend and even then was out bid by a flipper, I only got it because the seller wanted a family to live there and took less money.

I bought post divorce three years ago, different market but got gazumped by drive by investor bidders three times on similar sorts of properties (run down needs renovation), and these were over £100k but not particularly huge houses in Bedworth.

Ended up probably overpaying because I was desperate. That was lockdown though so very unusual market I guess.

While there are still people who will do that. I think with Instagram and stuff like that nowadays I think people have changed.

People want to show off a lot more now for the gram. Then it passes on to others and they think that's what's the norm.

I missed out on a couple of houses because of investors and cash bidders too.

 

[Nick]

I don’t disagree, I do most of my own stuff, but in reality I don’t know why. The iPhone was a joke but we accept specialised labour for other stuff. Maybe decorating/plumbing doesn’t feel like a real skill set so you think you can pick it up? Personally I’ve been burned by shitty tradesmen so much I’m not even convinced they’ll do a better job half the time.

But technically I should be earning more doing what I’m good at and paying someone to do what they’re good at.

Oh I'm not saying people aren't good at what they do. Just that if a room needs painting im physically able to do it myself.

That's what my mate keeps pushing but I see it as that I can finish work and then do stuff that's needed around the house.

 

[MalcSB]

I don’t disagree, I do most of my own stuff, but in reality I don’t know why. The iPhone was a joke but we accept specialised labour for other stuff. Maybe decorating/plumbing doesn’t feel like a real skill set so you think you can pick it up? Personally I’ve been burned by shitty tradesmen so much I’m not even convinced they’ll do a better job half the time.

But technically I should be earning more doing what I’m good at and paying someone to do what they’re good at.

Lots of people would need to work at what they are good at for several hours to be able to pay someone else for an hour of what they are good at though. That’s assuming that the more hours they work, the more money they are paid.

 

[shmmeee]

Lots of people would need to work at what they are good at for several hours to be able to pay someone else for an hour of what they are good at though. That’s assuming that the more hours they work, the more money they are paid.

That’s fair.

 

[MalcSB]

You’re like me you own somewhere. Rents are sky high. And you’re competing with 3/4 different people. It’s not as simple as looking for a cheap place.

if for example you have kids you’re looking for a 2/3 bedroom.

As I’ve said - I’ve been lucky, got a decent job and got on the housing ladder with a 110k property and a deposit from my grandad. That deposit is a pain to save for

you’ve also got car insurance to pay - and you’re looking at nearly 1k a year now if you’re a youngster

Rents will only get higher with additional costs and legislation/ regulation - as well as people disposing of their portfolios.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

While there are still people who will do that. I think with Instagram and stuff like that nowadays I think people have changed.

People want to show off a lot more now for the gram. Then it passes on to others and they think that's what's the norm.

I missed out on a couple of houses because of investors and cash bidders too.

In the interests of fairness and another little point to show this is not about “hating OAPs”, I interview a lot of people, and I find the younger people applying to be.. delicate, demanding and lots of them kinda do my head in with the social media culture I do feel that they are inheriting a very raw deal, that’s all.

 

[shmmeee]

Oh I'm not saying people aren't good at what they do. Just that if a room needs painting im physically able to do it myself.

That's what my mate keeps pushing but I see it as that I can finish work and then do stuff that's needed around the house.

So I’m actually redecorating the entire house right now. Painting and stuff I don’t see how I’d get a better job from a tradesman than I’d do, and it’s quite fun and saves the hassles of finding and organising a trades person. But say for the bathroom where I’ve never tiled before and want a good finish I’d probably do the prep and bring someone in, aside from anything else if they fuck it up they’re insured and I’m not.