Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 5, 2025

I wonder if Labour MPs will move to oust Keir Starmer before the next election. It’s unbelievable that some polls having them losing their supermajority already and with government refusing to rule out more tax rises, they’re going to become more unpopular.

Just anecdotal, I went to the panto before Xmas and there was a section where there were impersonations and Keir Starmer got a loud boo. The panto doesn’t strike me as a hotbed for conservatism.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
I’d say the age of consent law is all the clarity you need

So would I, but why make a ruling which suggests a level of acceptability providing pregnancy doesn’t follow

These judges are a disgrace.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
I wonder if Labour MPs will move to oust Keir Starmer before the next election. It’s unbelievable that some polls having them losing their supermajority already and with government refusing to rule out more tax rises, they’re going to become more unpopular.

Just anecdotal, I went to the panto before Xmas and there was a section where there were impersonations and Keir Starmer got a loud boo. The panto doesn’t strike me as a hotbed for conservatism.

I’ve wondered that all along, The oracle that is @shmmeee thought it Bollox.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
I’ve wondered that all along, The oracle that is @shmmeee thought it Bollox.

The electorate must be having some serious buyer’s remorse because things seem to somehow be getting slightly worse. It’s setback after setback for Keir Starmer and his top team, it’s snowballing.

There was a pollster that reckons that of Reform gets a swing of 6%, they’d be the largest party come the next election albeit short of a majority.

Which goes to show just how fed up the electorate is with the established parties and this is entirely predictable. It’s only following the trend of France, Germany and most of Europe.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
So would I, but why make a ruling which suggests a level of acceptability providing pregnancy doesn’t follow

These judges are a disgrace.

It’s illegal for two 13-15 year olds to have sex with each other but the guidance is they won’t be prosecuted if both consent. And generally I’d rather teenagers who are having sex had access to contraception. It’s been a big factor in reducing teen pregnancies.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
I’ve wondered that all along, The oracle that is @shmmeee thought it Bollox.

Starmer getting kicked out? Total bollocks. The man has just won a honking majority. Too many people owe him their job and there’s no candidate to oppose.

Just right wing wish casting.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
Starmer getting kicked out? Total bollocks. The man has just won a honking majority. Too many people owe him their job and there’s no candidate to oppose.

Just right wing wish casting.

His popularity polling is pretty disastrous and it probably isn’t recoverable. If there’s no movement this year or next, there’ll be conversations.

Then again, the PLP have never kicked out a sitting Labour PM before.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
The electorate must be having some serious buyer’s remorse because things seem to somehow be getting slightly worse. It’s setback after setback for Keir Starmer and his top team, it’s snowballing.

There was a pollster that reckons that of Reform gets a swing of 6%, they’d be the largest party come the next election albeit short of a majority.

Which goes to show just how fed up the electorate is with the established parties and this is entirely predictable. It’s only following the trend of France, Germany and most of Europe.

Anyone who has been sold a pig in a poke based on lies is going to suffer buyers remorse. So this is no real surprise, surely.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
Letting me keep the tax I pay and self fund. I would rather like my wife to have somewhere to live in future. If that’s ok with you on your one way street.

The current system seems fundamentally unfair. The government has plenty of money and I expect @fernandopartridge would be arguing they can create more. So it’s a question of priority. Sorting this out would have a positive impact on NHS performance as people will currently try to stay within that system, blocking beds etc, to save themselves from penury.

The other thing to think about is that all the taking of housing wealth reduces the IHT take so it could end up being cost neutral but with decent, safe and dignified services in place.

Fucking simples.

So you want to reduce tax and spend government money anyway? I’m lost.

We can’t tax pensioners they don’t earn income. We can tax their pensions and housing but people get upset about that. If you want a care service funded by the govt taking Corbyn numbers it’s another 1 percentage point on all income tax brackets.

TBH Id pay it. But I have a funny feeling you’d be on here complaining anyway.

The other options Mays Dementia Tax that got roundly rejected and she had to abandon.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
His popularity polling is pretty disastrous and it probably isn’t recoverable. If there’s no movement this year or next, there’ll be conversations.

Then again, the PLP have never kicked out a sitting Labour PM before.

Is that the Palestinian Liberation Party?

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
His popularity polling is pretty disastrous and it probably isn’t recoverable. If there’s no movement this year or next, there’ll be conversations.

Then again, the PLP have never kicked out a sitting Labour PM before.

And never will. If you know anything about Labour you know that. Corbyn was allowed to lose two elections FFS!

Polling means fuck all four years from an election.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
Is that the Palestinian Liberation Party?

if only

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
So you want to reduce tax and spend government money anyway? I’m lost.

We can’t tax pensioners they don’t earn income. We can tax their pensions and housing but people get upset about that. If you want a care service funded by the govt taking Corbyn numbers it’s another 1 percentage point on all income tax brackets.

TBH Id pay it. But I have a funny feeling you’d be on here complaining anyway.

The other options Mays Dementia Tax that got roundly rejected and she had to abandon.

Somebody should do the math that I suggested.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
Somebody should do the math that I suggested.

Lots of people have done the “math” () and Mays was generally seen by most as the most sensible and fairest solution. The electorate rejected it because they like cake and eating it. Like you want lower tax and more government spending on you.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
So you want to reduce tax and spend government money anyway? I’m lost.

We can’t tax pensioners they don’t earn income. We can tax their pensions and housing but people get upset about that. If you want a care service funded by the govt taking Corbyn numbers it’s another 1 percentage point on all income tax brackets.

TBH Id pay it. But I have a funny feeling you’d be on here complaining anyway.

The other options Mays Dementia Tax that got roundly rejected and she had to abandon.

That’s not entirely what I said. Let me keep my tax (reduce tax tick) but self fund (spend government money anyway x).

Let my wife have somewhere to live.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
Lots of people have done the “math” () and Mays was generally seen by most as the most sensible and fairest solution. The electorate rejected it because they like cake and eating it. Like you want lower tax and more government spending on you.

I want lower tax and me spending more on me, using the lower tax please.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
And never will. If you know anything about Labour you know that. Corbyn was allowed to lose two elections FFS!

Polling means fuck all four years from an election.

In isolation, you’re actually correct. However, how often does any sitting PMs approval recover from their peak after 1 year in office?

It’s his personal popularity that should worry the PLP.

On the Corbyn point, he was challenged for the leadership and the membership re-elected him. The PLP (Parliamentary Labour Party i.e. Labour MPs) did move to oust Corbyn.

Logistically, there is no mechanism for the PLP to oust a sitting PMs as far as I’m aware. So that’s the big caveat.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
Is that the Palestinian Liberation Party?

No, Parliamentary Labour Party which is shorthand for Labour MPs.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
In isolation, you’re actually correct. However, how often does any sitting PMs approval recover from their peak after 1 year in office?

It’s his personal popularity that should worry the PLP.

On the Corbyn point, he was challenged for the leadership and the membership re-elected him. The PLP (Parliamentary Labour Party i.e. Labour MPs) did move to oust Corbyn.

Logistically, there is no mechanism for the PLP to oust a sitting PMs as far as I’m aware. So that’s the big caveat.

I’m sure they could set up a review now to report in, say, 12 months time with a recommended process.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
No, Parliamentary Labour Party which is shorthand for Labour MPs.

I was just being a bit flippant.

Isn’t the term “Parliamentary Labour Party” actually long hand for Labour MPs. You might as well have titled that group LMPs. Avoided any confusion.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
I want lower tax and me spending more on me, using the lower tax.

So not govt funded then?

What would you cut to pay for your lower tax? We’d have to cut significantly more than the £6bn govt care figure to allow for private industry waste. Current spending is estimated around 10bn.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
In isolation, you’re actually correct. However, how often does any sitting PMs approval recover from their peak after 1 year in office?

It’s his personal popularity that should worry the PLP.

On the Corbyn point, he was challenged for the leadership and the membership re-elected him. The PLP (Parliamentary Labour Party i.e. Labour MPs) did move to oust Corbyn.

Logistically, there is no mechanism for the PLP to oust a sitting PMs as far as I’m aware. So that’s the big caveat.

No one serious is talking about this and that should tell you all you need to know. It’s the same as people asking for a new election.

Any change of leader would have to go through membership. This isn’t the Tories. Honestly it’s a non starter.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
No one serious is talking about this and that should tell you all you need to know. It’s the same as people asking for a new election.

Any change of leader would have to go through membership. This isn’t the Tories. Honestly it’s a non starter.

An election truly is a non-starter.

The membership probably would vote him out if there was a viable left wing candidate waiting in the wings. As you say, we’ve still got 4 years left so plenty of time for Starmer to become even more unpopular.

I’m not saying Starmer is going to imminently removed/challeneged, just thinking out loud that it’s not unthinkable that it’d happen by 2029. He is not liked by a many people atm.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
An election truly is a non-starter.

The membership probably would vote him out if there was a viable left wing candidate waiting in the wings. As you say, we’ve still got 4 years left so plenty of time for Starmer to become even more unpopular.

I’m not saying Starmer is going to imminently removed/challeneged, just thinking out loud that it’s not unthinkable that it’d happen by 2029. He is not liked by a many people atm.

You really don’t understand the Labour membership. Or for that matter the PLP.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
So not govt funded then?

What would you cut to pay for your lower tax? We’d have to cut significantly more than the £6bn govt care figure to allow for private industry waste. Current spending is estimated around 10bn.

Illegal immigrant accommodation, or get them to do something of value. Potholes for example.

Train drivers will presumably be paying loads more tax now, Every cloud and all that,

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
An election truly is a non-starter.

The membership probably would vote him out if there was a viable left wing candidate waiting in the wings. As you say, we’ve still got 4 years left so plenty of time for Starmer to become even more unpopular.

I’m not saying Starmer is going to imminently removed/challeneged, just thinking out loud that it’s not unthinkable that it’d happen by 2029. He is not liked by a many people atm.

Is an election truly a non starter, theoretically possible if the turkeys voted for Christmas.

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
You really don’t understand the Labour membership. Or for that matter the PLP.

Do you understand the British electorate, or only 20% of it?

MalcSB · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
An election truly is a non-starter.

The membership probably would vote him out if there was a viable left wing candidate waiting in the wings. As you say, we’ve still got 4 years left so plenty of time for Starmer to become even more unpopular.

I’m not saying Starmer is going to imminently removed/challeneged, just thinking out loud that it’s not unthinkable that it’d happen by 2029. He is not liked by a many people atm.

Still time for me to make a late play for the role.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
Do you understand the British electorate, or only 20% of it?

You’re all over the shop now. Time for bed I think.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
You really don’t understand the Labour membership. Or for that matter the PLP.

If Starmer’s polling got worse over the next few years, you don’t think anyone would challenge him at all?

I like your optimism.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
Illegal immigrant accommodation, or get them to do something of value. Potholes for example.

Train drivers will presumably be paying loads more tax now, Every cloud and all that,

That’s less than half of it, what else? And are you now just letting these people roam the streets or what? If you want to increase enforcement that’ll cost you most of that saving.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 5, 2025

MalcSB said:
Still time for me to make a late play for the role.

Why don’t you start a petition among Labour voters to oust Keir Starmer? Perhaps a silly ‘meme’ suggestion on a football forum can snowball into the downfall of a Labour PM by membership vote!

Heck, I’ll rejoin the Labour Party to sign the petition!

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 5, 2025

shmmeee said:
That’s less than half of it, what else? And are you now just letting these people roam the streets or what? If you want to increase enforcement that’ll cost you most of that saving.

Let’s just keep everything the same is your response to a lot of issues brought up on here. Are you sure you’re not a Tory ‘wet?’

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
If Starmer’s polling got worse over the next few years, you don’t think anyone would challenge him at all?

I like your optimism.

Honestly knowing Labour? No.

But let’s play let’s pretend Labour are actually the Tories.

First you need a challenger. It’s not coming from the SCG as there’s about three of them and that’s if they’ve not got their whips suspended which they have at the moment.

Your best bet is Streeting who is to the right of Starmer probably. But he needs the support of the majority like any Labour leader and the majority is soft left and not a massive fan of Streeting. After Streeting it’s a long drop off. Most PLP members are brand new thanks to Corbyn destroying the PLP and Starmer winning by a huge majority. This means loyalty as we saw with Boris.

And Streeting isn’t stupid. He knows if he goes now and fails he fucks himself in the future. Far far better to wait and get the leadership next than be seen as a traitor in the party. Who has heard of Owen Smith these days?

Then you’ve got to convince a membership to repeat 2016, where Corbyn was even less popular and the party was literally splitting with fewer MPs. 2016 was a disaster and as always the Labour membership voted to keep with the same guy, because they always do, because they’re generally big softies who like to give people another chance.

it’s not a realistic thing. It’s something made up by a lot of right wingers who aren’t used to losing elections for cope.

shmmeee · Jan 5, 2025

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Let’s just keep everything the same is your response to a lot of issues brought up on here. Are you sure you’re not a Tory ‘wet?’

I literally said I support both Corbyn and Mays proposals. Just not Malcs magic money tree. On this issue the people who refuse to change are in fact the electorate.

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

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