Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

[CCFCSteve]

Id rather read the inquiry report than sensationalist and politically biased reporting tbqh.

Syeds left leaning* and second generation Pakistani immigrant so worth reading on the subject

*applied to be a Labour MP in the past

 

---

[Sky Blue Pete]

Hmmm, I’m not sure Pete. These are a couple of paragraphs from the article incase people are struggling due to firewall

‘Please let us not indulge in the craven euphemisms that have characterised the scandal for far too long. This was not a “community” problem or a problem of particular “towns”; it was ethnic violence of a shocking and sustained kind: predominantly Pakistani men targeting predominantly white girls. Children were drugged, trafficked, gang-raped and tortured, a scandal that shakes one to the core.

And all this took place in plain sight, in no small part because of the capture of our institutions by the virus of ultraprogressivism, the fear that to investigate these crimes might “undermine community cohesion” or — worst of all — appear racist. Ann Cryer, the Labour MP who sounded warnings as early as 2003, was turned on so viciously that police installed an alarm in her home, a pattern of intimidation that applied to Andrew Norfolk of The Times and Charlie Peters of GB News, now leading the investigative crusade’

I do take yours and shmmeees point that as it was young girls from poor working class families there appears to less of a shit given by police etc. I also take shmmeees point earlier than maybe times have changed a bit in the last 10 years or so….I’d hope so anyway

Sorry I should repeat my apology
It wasn’t one thing it was a whole host of things and race is definitely one of the main things

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Hmmm, I’m not sure Pete. These are a couple of paragraphs from the article incase people are struggling due to firewall

‘Please let us not indulge in the craven euphemisms that have characterised the scandal for far too long. This was not a “community” problem or a problem of particular “towns”; it was ethnic violence of a shocking and sustained kind: predominantly Pakistani men targeting predominantly white girls. Children were drugged, trafficked, gang-raped and tortured, a scandal that shakes one to the core.

And all this took place in plain sight, in no small part because of the capture of our institutions by the virus of ultraprogressivism, the fear that to investigate these crimes might “undermine community cohesion” or — worst of all — appear racist. Ann Cryer, the Labour MP who sounded warnings as early as 2003, was turned on so viciously that police installed an alarm in her home, a pattern of intimidation that applied to Andrew Norfolk of The Times and Charlie Peters of GB News, now leading the investigative crusade’

I do take yours and shmmeees point that as it was young girls from poor working class families there appears to less of a shit given by police etc. I also take shmmeees point earlier than maybe times have changed a bit in the last 10 years or so….I’d hope so anyway

And also been highlighted in the jay report

 

[shmmeee]

*applied to be a Labour MP in the past

So did Lee Anderson…

 

[CCFCSteve]

So did Lee Anderson…

Not really comparable. As I said Syed’s left leaning (also remainer) who’s from Pakistani background and fully aware of the sensitivities so it’s hardly sensationalist or politically motivated. He’s willing to call out the concerns and issues with what’s happened

This is maybe part of what he’s talking about though !

 

[shmmeee]

Not really comparable. As I said Syed’s left leaning (also remainer) who’s from Pakistani background and fully aware of the sensitivities so it’s hardly sensationalist or politically motivated. He’s willing to call out the concerns and issues with what’s happened

This is maybe part of what he’s talking about though !

It's all certain people want to talk about when it's a family small part of the issue though.

The 2022 inquiry said that there isn't enough data to properly make these sorts of claims:

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/cs-organised-networks/part-h-profiling/h4-failures-record-victim-and-perpetrator-ethnicity.html

Sunak to be fair I think addressed this, but the problem was without the data all we were going off was community reports so they were classed as racism because there was no data to back them up. To boil the whole thing down to wokeness is just putting your personal politics first, I'm sorry.

Yes there was a significant issue with British Pakistani gangs, but I'm not sure what you want the next step to be exactly. Deport all Pakistanis? There's a higher percentage of EDL supporters convinced for child abuse than British Pakistanis.

Like all of these sorts of cases, the issues are multiple and many agencies made basic failings that have absolutely nothing to do with being too woke. It's just certain people have picked up on that and made out it's the only issue. Because they don't care about reducing VAWG, they care about shouting about multiculturalism.

The attitudes to race and child abuse in the 2000s were shocking. I think we've progressed on both front, but people only want to talk about one. And they're often people who are saying we shouldn't believe women when they say they're abused. The core issue wasn't woeness. The wokeness came because of shitty attitudes to working class girls and children having sex with adults. If we accepted that all adults having relationships with 14/15/16 year olds was criminal none of this would have happened. But there was a belief that girls could consent to this stuff. And that wasn't just an institutional belief.

 

[CCFCSteve]

It's all certain people want to talk about when it's a family small part of the issue though.

The 2022 inquiry said that there isn't enough data to properly make these sorts of claims:

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/cs-organised-networks/part-h-profiling/h4-failures-record-victim-and-perpetrator-ethnicity.html

Sunak to be fair I think addressed this, but the problem was without the data all we were going off was community reports so they were classed as racism because there was no data to back them up. To boil the whole thing down to wokeness is just putting your personal politics first, I'm sorry.

Yes there was a significant issue with British Pakistani gangs, but I'm not sure what you want the next step to be exactly. Deport all Pakistanis? There's a higher percentage of EDL supporters convinced for child abuse than British Pakistanis.

Like all of these sorts of cases, the issues are multiple and many agencies made basic failings that have absolutely nothing to do with being too woke. It's just certain people have picked up on that and made out it's the only issue. Because they don't care about reducing VAWG, they care about shouting about multiculturalism.

The attitudes to race and child abuse in the 2000s were shocking. I think we've progressed on both front, but people only want to talk about one. And they're often people who are saying we shouldn't believe women when they say they're abused. The core issue wasn't woeness. The wokeness came because of shitty attitudes to working class girls and children having sex with adults. If we accepted that all adults having relationships with 14/15/16 year olds was criminal none of this would have happened. But there was a belief that girls could consent to this stuff. And that wasn't just an institutional belief.

There’s a lot of valid stuff in the post but some stuff I just do not agree with. Have a read of this. There appears to have been an institutional problem within councils, police force and MPs not wanting to investigate or address the issue

Rotherham report 'reduced me to tears', says MP who exposed abuse decade ago | Rotherham | The Guardian

<p>Rotherham girls might have been spared, says MP who exposed abuse a decade ago</p>

amp.theguardian.com

It supports what Syed was saying, you’ve got one side burying their heads in the sand/not wanting to accept the reality of the situation and the other exploiting it for their own benefit.

I accept your earlier point that you’d hope that times have moved on and lessons learned

 

[shmmeee]

There’s a lot of valid stuff in the post but some stuff I just do not agree with. Have a read of this. There appears to have been an institutional problem within councils, police force and MPs not wanting to investigate or address the issue

Rotherham report 'reduced me to tears', says MP who exposed abuse decade ago | Rotherham | The Guardian

<p>Rotherham girls might have been spared, says MP who exposed abuse a decade ago</p>

amp.theguardian.com

It supports what Syed was saying, you’ve got one side burying their heads in the sand/not wanting to accept the reality of the situation and the other exploiting it for their own benefit.

I accept your earlier point that you’d hope that times have moved on and lessons learned

For that article:

"They found constant excuses not to do anything. You would think it would be clear-cut – these girls were too young to consent – but police kept saying it wouldn't get to trial because these girls wouldn't give evidence," she said. "They thought these lads were their boyfriends. They thought they were going to get married. But no. Most of these lads were already married to a cousin from Pakistan."

That's not wokeness. That's a shitty attitude to underage sex.

is there a huge issue with mass immigration creating enclaves that are segregated from society? 100%
If there a huge issue with people especially on the left not addressing misogyny in Muslim communities? 100%

Was that the main issue here? No! It should have been open and shut like the woman says, these were children unable to consent. But I know from having taught in schools around that time that the attitude was that it was a bit creepy if a 15 year old dated a 30 year old but unless they didn't consent it wasn't a legal issue you could get involved with. I remember going to a safeguarding officer around 2007 about a girl who was 15 with a 32 year old 'boyfriend' (both white British) and being told yeah it's creepy but these girls like to feel mature and she consents. That's the exact same response the people raising this got.

This boils down to whether you think the main problem here was PAKISTANI grooming gangs or Pakistani GROOMING gangs.

 

[CCFCSteve]

For that article:

"They found constant excuses not to do anything. You would think it would be clear-cut – these girls were too young to consent – but police kept saying it wouldn't get to trial because these girls wouldn't give evidence," she said. "They thought these lads were their boyfriends. They thought they were going to get married. But no. Most of these lads were already married to a cousin from Pakistan."

That's not wokeness. That's a shitty attitude to underage sex.

is there a huge issue with mass immigration creating enclaves that are segregated from society? 100%
If there a huge issue with people especially on the left not addressing misogyny in Muslim communities? 100%

Was that the main issue here? No! It should have been open and shut like the woman says, these were children unable to consent. But I know from having taught in schools around that time that the attitude was that it was a bit creepy if a 15 year old dated a 30 year old but unless they didn't consent it wasn't a legal issue you could get involved with. I remember going to a safeguarding officer around 2007 about a girl who was 15 with a 32 year old 'boyfriend' (both white British) and being told yeah it's creepy but these girls like to feel mature and she consents. That's the exact same response the people raising this got.

This boils down to whether you think the main problem here was PAKISTANI grooming gangs or Pakistani GROOMING gangs.

You’ve just picked one paragraph to support your view and ignored the others that didn’t ?!

‘Yet he "probably" didn't do as much as he could have done and should have "burrowed into" the issue, he said. "I think there was a culture of not wanting to rock the multicultural community boat, if I may put it like that." Last week, he said Cryer did what others should have had the courage to do.

Cryer is adamant that she can't have been the only politician to have heard such stories. "There must have been councillors and MPs, I think, all over the country who knew what was going on but were terrified. It's a genuine fear, to be terrified of being labelled a racist. No one wants to be called a racist, least of all someone who isn't a racist."

When Keighley's problem was out in the open, she claimed to have talked about the issue with Ken Livingstone, then mayor of London, at City Hall. According to Cryer, "Ken was convinced I had got it all wrong. He was so politically correct, he was off this planet at that time, was Ken."

Anyway, I only wanted to upload an interesting article on the subject. As you say, hopefully times have changed. I’ll leave with there.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

For that article:

"They found constant excuses not to do anything. You would think it would be clear-cut – these girls were too young to consent – but police kept saying it wouldn't get to trial because these girls wouldn't give evidence," she said. "They thought these lads were their boyfriends. They thought they were going to get married. But no. Most of these lads were already married to a cousin from Pakistan."

That's not wokeness. That's a shitty attitude to underage sex.

is there a huge issue with mass immigration creating enclaves that are segregated from society? 100%
If there a huge issue with people especially on the left not addressing misogyny in Muslim communities? 100%

Was that the main issue here? No! It should have been open and shut like the woman says, these were children unable to consent. But I know from having taught in schools around that time that the attitude was that it was a bit creepy if a 15 year old dated a 30 year old but unless they didn't consent it wasn't a legal issue you could get involved with. I remember going to a safeguarding officer around 2007 about a girl who was 15 with a 32 year old 'boyfriend' (both white British) and being told yeah it's creepy but these girls like to feel mature and she consents. That's the exact same response the people raising this got.

This boils down to whether you think the main problem here was PAKISTANI grooming gangs or Pakistani GROOMING gangs.

yep that’s where I am
I struggle enormously with prosecuting decades later with different rules too but that’s beside the point
The attitude to under age sex is very different probably as a result of this. The onus has to be on the adult acting within the law not whether the consent was there

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You’ve just picked one paragraph to support your view and ignored the others that didn’t ?!

‘Yet he "probably" didn't do as much as he could have done and should have "burrowed into" the issue, he said. "I think there was a culture of not wanting to rock the multicultural community boat, if I may put it like that." Last week, he said Cryer did what others should have had the courage to do.

Cryer is adamant that she can't have been the only politician to have heard such stories. "There must have been councillors and MPs, I think, all over the country who knew what was going on but were terrified. It's a genuine fear, to be terrified of being labelled a racist. No one wants to be called a racist, least of all someone who isn't a racist."

When Keighley's problem was out in the open, she claimed to have talked about the issue with Ken Livingstone, then mayor of London, at City Hall. According to Cryer, "Ken was convinced I had got it all wrong. He was so politically correct, he was off this planet at that time, was Ken."

Anyway, I only wanted to upload an interesting article on the subject. As you say, hopefully times have changed. I’ll leave with there.

I’m sure that’s right but it’s also a this is too much effort coming into play too
Look at hillsbrough and the horizon scandal. Lots of mps would have heard the stories and most dismissed them

on a smaller scale sometimes my questions are dismissed by my mp or minister and you think wtaf are you supposed to do if not deal with my and other queries like it

 

[SkyBlueMatt]

Lol

It's going to be hilarious watching the right eat themselves.

Musk really is clueless about UK politics, even Farage and his merry band of f*ckwits know it's political suicide to touch Tommy Robinson.

 

[shmmeee]

You’ve just picked one paragraph to support your view and ignored the others that didn’t ?!

‘Yet he "probably" didn't do as much as he could have done and should have "burrowed into" the issue, he said. "I think there was a culture of not wanting to rock the multicultural community boat, if I may put it like that." Last week, he said Cryer did what others should have had the courage to do.

Cryer is adamant that she can't have been the only politician to have heard such stories. "There must have been councillors and MPs, I think, all over the country who knew what was going on but were terrified. It's a genuine fear, to be terrified of being labelled a racist. No one wants to be called a racist, least of all someone who isn't a racist."

When Keighley's problem was out in the open, she claimed to have talked about the issue with Ken Livingstone, then mayor of London, at City Hall. According to Cryer, "Ken was convinced I had got it all wrong. He was so politically correct, he was off this planet at that time, was Ken."

Anyway, I only wanted to upload an interesting article on the subject. As you say, hopefully times have changed. I’ll leave with there.

That’s all political speculation though. Read the inquiries. I quoted that part because it was the one part based on what happened.

 

[chiefdave]

Syeds left leaning

Had to check its not April 1st

 

[fernandopartridge]

Didn’t Starmer make some comment about ethnicity issues being a root cause. So that’s all OK then. Why not have an inquiry or review? They are doing that for every fucking thing else as they kick multiple cans down the road. If they don’t like the answers they can ignore it, like the ombudsman review of the WASPIs.

There was a 7 year inquiry which reported in 2022 and made numerous recommendations. Why is this being ignored?

 

[chiefdave]

Thoughts on the NHS plan? Not convinced personally.

Seems to revolve around community diagnostic centres which have been introduced since 2023 (I think, certainly around then in Cov) so is this just a case that they are now ready to open and Labour are going to take credit for any impact they have?

The NHS app stuff just seems waffle. The app is pretty shit and does need an update but its mainly bringing in features that are already available on the NHS website so not sure it will make a huge difference.

Other than that it seems to involve binning off follow up appointments, which seems a double edged sword, and allowing people to elect to go to a private provider. How that will work in practice we will have to wait and see as at present you can struggle to get some treatment recommended by NICE guidelines as they can't afford to supply it on the NHS so unless there's a big chunk of additional cash not sure who the NHS can start diverting a significant number of patients to private healthcare.

 

[shmmeee]

There was a 7 year inquiry which reported in 2022 and made numerous recommendations. Why is this being ignored?

Im trying mate. I keep quoting from it only to get Telegraph opinion pieces back.

 

[PVA]

There have been numerous inquiries.

This from Victoria Derbyshire:

Some people in recent days have alleged a ‘cover-up’ over the grooming & rape of hundreds of young girls in predominantly northern UK towns, leading to calls for a ‘national’ public inquiry into child sexual exploitation FWIW here’s a non-exhaustive list of inquiries into #CSE in last 12 yrs…

• ROCHDALE 2013 Serious case review highlighted failures by 17 agencies who were meant to protect kids
• GTR MANCHESTER 2020 - Manc-wide Independent Review commissioned by Mayor Andy Burnham (Part 1)
• OLDHAM 2022 – Burnham review (Part 2)
• ROCHDALE 2024 - Burnham review (Part 3)
• ROTHERHAM 2014 - independent inquiry into child sexual exploitation by Alexis Jay which covered CSE in the town 1997-2013
• ROTHERHAM 2015 - Louise Casey looked at whether Rotherham Coucil was ‘fit for purpose’ given their abdication of responsibility for vulnerable kids
• TELFORD Jul 2022 UK-WIDE Child Sexual Exploitation - Home Affairs Select Committee June 2013
• And of course the wide-ranging 468 page Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse which took 7 years to complete, published in 2022 & led by Prof Alexis Jay

 

[shmmeee]

Thoughts on the NHS plan? Not convinced personally.

Seems to revolve around community diagnostic centres which have been introduced since 2023 (I think, certainly around then in Cov) so is this just a case that they are now ready to open and Labour are going to take credit for any impact they have?

The NHS app stuff just seems waffle. The app is pretty shit and does need an update but its mainly bringing in features that are already available on the NHS website so not sure it will make a huge difference.

Other than that it seems to involve binning off follow up appointments, which seems a double edged sword, and allowing people to elect to go to a private provider. How that will work in practice we will have to wait and see as at present you can struggle to get some treatment recommended by NICE guidelines as they can't afford to supply it on the NHS so unless there's a big chunk of additional cash not sure who the NHS can start diverting a significant number of patients to private healthcare.

Not seen it but digitisation is vital. As is data access. The disparity between GPs in terms of what you can access and what you can sort online is ridiculous. At the very least you should have appointment booking everywhere instead of waiting in a phone queue at 8am like it’s 1993.

 

[shmmeee]

There have been numerous inquiries.

This from Victoria Derbyshire:

Some people in recent days have alleged a ‘cover-up’ over the grooming & rape of hundreds of young girls in predominantly northern UK towns, leading to calls for a ‘national’ public inquiry into child sexual exploitation FWIW here’s a non-exhaustive list of inquiries into #CSE in last 12 yrs…

• ROCHDALE 2013 Serious case review highlighted failures by 17 agencies who were meant to protect kids
• GTR MANCHESTER 2020 - Manc-wide Independent Review commissioned by Mayor Andy Burnham (Part 1)
• OLDHAM 2022 – Burnham review (Part 2)
• ROCHDALE 2024 - Burnham review (Part 3)
• ROTHERHAM 2014 - independent inquiry into child sexual exploitation by Alexis Jay which covered CSE in the town 1997-2013
• ROTHERHAM 2015 - Louise Casey looked at whether Rotherham Coucil was ‘fit for purpose’ given their abdication of responsibility for vulnerable kids
• TELFORD Jul 2022 UK-WIDE Child Sexual Exploitation - Home Affairs Select Committee June 2013
• And of course the wide-ranging 468 page Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse which took 7 years to complete, published in 2022 & led by Prof Alexis Jay

Not to mention ten years of hand wringing in the press.

I don’t think there’s been a case investigated and talked about more. We need to stop talking and start acting now.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's all certain people want to talk about when it's a family small part of the issue though.

The 2022 inquiry said that there isn't enough data to properly make these sorts of claims:

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/cs-organised-networks/part-h-profiling/h4-failures-record-victim-and-perpetrator-ethnicity.html

Sunak to be fair I think addressed this, but the problem was without the data all we were going off was community reports so they were classed as racism because there was no data to back them up. To boil the whole thing down to wokeness is just putting your personal politics first, I'm sorry.

Yes there was a significant issue with British Pakistani gangs, but I'm not sure what you want the next step to be exactly. Deport all Pakistanis? There's a higher percentage of EDL supporters convinced for child abuse than British Pakistanis.

Like all of these sorts of cases, the issues are multiple and many agencies made basic failings that have absolutely nothing to do with being too woke. It's just certain people have picked up on that and made out it's the only issue. Because they don't care about reducing VAWG, they care about shouting about multiculturalism.

The attitudes to race and child abuse in the 2000s were shocking. I think we've progressed on both front, but people only want to talk about one. And they're often people who are saying we shouldn't believe women when they say they're abused. The core issue wasn't woeness. The wokeness came because of shitty attitudes to working class girls and children having sex with adults. If we accepted that all adults having relationships with 14/15/16 year olds was criminal none of this would have happened. But there was a belief that girls could consent to this stuff. And that wasn't just an institutional belief.

I read the book by one of the Rochdale victims a few years ago, the basic issue for her was, like you say, the police treating girls like her with contempt rather than specifically being scared of cultural clashes.

 

[shmmeee]

I read the book by one of the Rochdale victims a few years ago, the basic issue for her was, like you say, the police treating girls like her with contempt rather than specifically being scared of cultural clashes.

This was the attitude at the time. I hope to god it’s different now but haven’t been in schools now for almost ten years.

And in a way I get how it got there, you don’t get welcomed with open arms by a 14/15 year old when you tell them their boyfriend is a pedo. They do want to think they’re mature (hence the classic grooming tactic), child abuse was seen as dirty old men kidnapping kids or touching up their nephew, this was just “a girl with an older boyfriend”. Lots of parents do call the police when their 14 year old daughter gets an older boyfriend. My ex isn’t happy cos my 14 year old is dating a lad in the year above. There’s no clarity in society or in law for post pubescent kids in seemingly consensual relationships, or at least there wasn’t. Things like Saville and this and the internet in general seem to have made us much more wary thankfully.

 

[Grendel]

There have been numerous inquiries.

This from Victoria Derbyshire:

Some people in recent days have alleged a ‘cover-up’ over the grooming & rape of hundreds of young girls in predominantly northern UK towns, leading to calls for a ‘national’ public inquiry into child sexual exploitation FWIW here’s a non-exhaustive list of inquiries into #CSE in last 12 yrs…

• ROCHDALE 2013 Serious case review highlighted failures by 17 agencies who were meant to protect kids
• GTR MANCHESTER 2020 - Manc-wide Independent Review commissioned by Mayor Andy Burnham (Part 1)
• OLDHAM 2022 – Burnham review (Part 2)
• ROCHDALE 2024 - Burnham review (Part 3)
• ROTHERHAM 2014 - independent inquiry into child sexual exploitation by Alexis Jay which covered CSE in the town 1997-2013
• ROTHERHAM 2015 - Louise Casey looked at whether Rotherham Coucil was ‘fit for purpose’ given their abdication of responsibility for vulnerable kids
• TELFORD Jul 2022 UK-WIDE Child Sexual Exploitation - Home Affairs Select Committee June 2013
• And of course the wide-ranging 468 page Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse which took 7 years to complete, published in 2022 & led by Prof Alexis Jay

Ah yes - Rochdale

Roger Ellis: Council Chief Executive retires

It is the end of an era at Rochdale Borough Council following the retirement of Chief Executive Roger Ellis after 12...

www.rochdaleonline.co.uk

 

[chiefdave]

Not seen it but digitisation is vital. As is data access. The disparity between GPs in terms of what you can access and what you can sort online is ridiculous. At the very least you should have appointment booking everywhere instead of waiting in a phone queue at 8am like it’s 1993.

Not being able to book a doctors appointment online drives me mad. This system clearly exists because my surgery used to have it and it worked brilliantly.

For someone in my position, works about 45 minutes from home / surgery and needs regular routine appointments, I could book in those routine appointments months in advance, schedule to see the same doctor every time and book around work.

Now when I'm due a routine appointment I have to do the 8am scrum, hope I can book something late in the day that fits around work and if I can it will be with a random doctor. Although on multiple occasions its turned out to not actually be a doctor and I've needed a second appointment for the same thing.

 

[PVA]

Solid response from Starmer.

Defends his record as DPP, calls out right wing lies and conspiracy theories, and calls out those who have had 14 years to do something about it now acting all outraged.

Let me start with this, child sexual exploitation is utterly sickening, utterly sickening.

And for many, many years, too many victims have been completely let down, let down by perverse ideas about community relations or by the idea that institutions must be protected above all else. And they’ve not been listened to, and they’ve not been heard.

And when I was chief prosecutor for five years, I tackled that head on, because I could see what was happening, and that’s why I reopened cases that have been closed and supposedly finished. I brought the first major prosecution of an Asian grooming gang in the particular case – it was in Rochdale, but it was the first of its kind …

We changed, or I changed, the whole prosecution approach, because I wanted to challenge, and did challenge the myths and stereotypes that were stopping those victims being heard.

So we changed the entire approach, not without criticism at the time, I might add.

But when I left office, we had the highest number of child sexual abuse cases being prosecuted on record.

Now, that record is not secret as a public servant, it’s all it’s there for all of you or everybody to see.

I also called for mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse. I’ve pulled for that decade ago. The Tories did nothing about that, for those 10 long years, including when the Jay report came out.

Having defended his record as DPP, Starmer goes on to attack those who have criticised him and Jess Phillips. He does not name Elon Musk, but he is clearly referring to him. Towards the end he also explicitly attacks the Tories, who have joined Musk in calling for an inquiry into the Oldham rape gangs. He says:

Those that are spreading lies and misinformation as far and as wide as possible, they’re not interested in victims. They’re interested in themselves.

Those who are cheerleading Tommy Robinson are not interested in justice. They’re supporting a man who went to prison for nearly collapsing, a grooming case, a gang grooming case. These are people are trying to get some kind of vicarious thrill from street violence that people like Tommy Robinson promote.

And those attacking Jess Phillips, who I’m proud to call a colleague and a friend on protecting victims - Jess Phillips has done 1,000 times more than they’ve even dreamt about when it comes to protecting victims of sexual abuse throughout her entire career …

We’ve seen this playbook many times, whipping up of intimidation and threats of violence, hoping that the media will amplify it.
Jess Phillips does not need me or anybody else to speak on her behalf. But when the poison of the far right leads to serious threats to Jess Phillips and others, that in my book [means] a line has been crossed.

I enjoy the cut and thrust of politics, the robust debate that we must have, but that’s got to be based on facts and truth, not on lies, not on those who are so desperate for attention that they’re prepared to debase themselves and their country.

So this government will get on with the job of protecting victims, including child sexual abuse, mandatory reporting, accelerating the processes.

But what I won’t tolerate is this discussion based on lies without calling it out. What I won’t tolerate is politicians jumping on the bandwagon simply to get attention when those politicians sat in government for 14 long years, tweeting, talking, but not doing anything about it – now so desperate for attention that they’re amplifying what the far right is saying.

So that’s what I say about Jess Phillips, Thank you.

 

[MalcSB]

There was a 7 year inquiry which reported in 2022 and made numerous recommendations. Why is this being ignored?

Because they are posing lying cunts who actually don’t want to do anything about it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Thoughts on the NHS plan? Not convinced personally.

Seems to revolve around community diagnostic centres which have been introduced since 2023 (I think, certainly around then in Cov) so is this just a case that they are now ready to open and Labour are going to take credit for any impact they have?

The NHS app stuff just seems waffle. The app is pretty shit and does need an update but its mainly bringing in features that are already available on the NHS website so not sure it will make a huge difference.

Other than that it seems to involve binning off follow up appointments, which seems a double edged sword, and allowing people to elect to go to a private provider. How that will work in practice we will have to wait and see as at present you can struggle to get some treatment recommended by NICE guidelines as they can't afford to supply it on the NHS so unless there's a big chunk of additional cash not sure who the NHS can start diverting a significant number of patients to private healthcare.

It's just drivel, nothing new. You have been able to choose provider for years and years and the Tories established contracts with the private sector to help with the elective backlog. It has barely got anywhere because provider capacity isn't the issue, it's clinical capacity. The private providers employ the same surgeons as the NHS in many cases.

 

[MalcSB]

Solid response from Starmer.

Defends his record as DPP, calls out right wing lies and conspiracy theories, and calls out those who have had 14 years to do something about it now acting all outraged.

When in government, the power is in your hands, can’t keep calling out the previous government. Does he remember the state of the economy and available funds left to the coalition government. Very keen to reference the alleged Tory black hole, less so regarding the Blair Brown era.

An inquiry isn’t necessarily a financial issue, but the principle remains. He could at a stroke of a pen agree to one. Makes me hugely suspiscious why he hasn’t picked that pen. I can lend him a very nice one if he likes.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not seen it but digitisation is vital. As is data access. The disparity between GPs in terms of what you can access and what you can sort online is ridiculous. At the very least you should have appointment booking everywhere instead of waiting in a phone queue at 8am like it’s 1993.

I think the issue is that online triage either isn't trusted or implemented properly so the practices go back to manual triage through a telephone call. Ultimately, the answer to the issue is provision of additional GP capacity (so that appointments are not so scarce) but Labour seems to be of a similar mind to the previous government about that.

 

[MalcSB]

NHS IT and Electronic Patient Records have tended to be a very expensive disaster area.

 

[MalcSB]

I think the issue is that online triage either isn't trusted or implemented properly so the practices go back to manual triage through a telephone call. Ultimately, the answer to the issue is provision of additional GP capacity (so that appointments are not so scarce) but Labour seems to be of a similar mind to the previous government about that.

Most of the “manual” triage is actually computer algorithm driven in the first instance. The benefit of doing it vocally is that the call handler can be listening out for sounds of increasing distress and offer some reassurance and practical advice which an entirely on line system would not be able to do.

 

[chiefdave]

offer some reassurance and practical advice

you've clearly never phoned any of the receptionists at my surgery!

 

[PVA]

When in government, the power is in your hands, can’t keep calling out the previous government.

He's not calling out the previous government per se.

What he's saying is it's a bit rich for those individuals who had a chance to do something now all of a sudden being outraged that nothing has been done and, as he says, are 'now so desperate for attention that they’re amplifying what the far right is saying' for political gain.

So he's not calling out the previous government, he's calling out a bunch of dickheads now piping up because it suits their agenda, not because they care about child sex exploitation scandals.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not being able to book a doctors appointment online drives me mad. This system clearly exists because my surgery used to have it and it worked brilliantly.

For someone in my position, works about 45 minutes from home / surgery and needs regular routine appointments, I could book in those routine appointments months in advance, schedule to see the same doctor every time and book around work.

Now when I'm due a routine appointment I have to do the 8am scrum, hope I can book something late in the day that fits around work and if I can it will be with a random doctor. Although on multiple occasions its turned out to not actually be a doctor and I've needed a second appointment for the same thing.

Which one is it

 

[shmmeee]

NHS IT and Electronic Patient Records have tended to be a very expensive disaster area.

As has outdated IT and not having digital records…

The problem with government IT is always the same. Government are a terrible customer who changes their mind every five minutes and they only hire shit software houses like Crapita and not anyone actually skilled at making large software systems.