Do you want to discuss boring politics? (169 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Give it a rest Tony. We all know you think everything is brexits fault. It’s a minor part in a far bigger problem.

Why Europe fears a gas crunch even before winter demand begins

Tight supplies have created record prices ahead of heating demand increases in colder months

www.ft.com

Shmmeee is right, we should never be reliant on countries like Russia. For example on energy, there’s been a naivety in those that have argued against various alternative short term energy alternatives, in particular nuclear. We all want to move to clean, renewable energy but it can’t happen overnight and in the meantime it’s picking the least worst option(s) to be as self sufficient as possible

I’ve never seen what’s wrong with nuclear power as a means to solve the energy problem to allow enough time for a longer term replacement to be found. Long term I think harvesting the sunlight hitting the Sahara is the answer for Europe and Africa at least but that requires the wealthier nations to really step up

 

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[wingy]

Give it a rest Tony. We all know you think everything is brexits fault. It’s a minor part in a far bigger problem.

Why Europe fears a gas crunch even before winter demand begins

Tight supplies have created record prices ahead of heating demand increases in colder months

www.ft.com

Shmmeee is right, we should never be reliant on countries like Russia. For example on energy, there’s been a naivety in those that have argued against various alternative short term energy alternatives, in particular nuclear. We all want to move to clean, renewable energy but it can’t happen overnight and in the meantime it’s picking the least worst option(s) to be as self sufficient as possible

Tried to attach FT article but won’t let me. Worth googling

It's been at least 30 years in the making.
So much political prevarication and delay.
Think I argued on here a couple of years ago energy should have been handled through a body independent of government, especially as delays have occurred through strange funding procurement not to mention state security regards who's handling these provisions.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I’ve never seen what’s wrong with nuclear power as a means to solve the energy problem to allow enough time for a longer term replacement to be found.

The fact the waste takes all eternity to become safe...?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The fact the waste takes all eternity to become safe...?

We’re getting better at ‘recycling’ spent nuclear waste for starts. Can always fire it into the Sun, in all seriousness

 

[skybluetony176]

Give it a rest Tony. We all know you think everything is brexits fault. It’s a minor part in a far bigger problem.

Give it a rest yourself Steve. Although I admire that you’re the only one who comes on here to defend Brexit your ability to bury your head in the sand knows no bounds.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Give it a rest yourself Steve. Although I admire that you’re the only one who comes on here to defend Brexit your ability to bury your head in the sand knows no bounds.

There’s plenty of issues relating to Brexit but this isn’t one

 

[skybluetony176]

There’s plenty of issues relating to Brexit but this isn’t one

No. Of course it isn’t.

 

[stupot07]

Boris Johnson accused of having a 'casual' approach to Britain's national security by senior MPs

The Joint Committee on National Security Strategy, which is made up of senior MPs and peers, says that when the crisis in Afghanistan occurred over the summer, the British government was "unable to prepare for and respond to two national security crises simultaneously".

news.sky.com

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[clint van damme]

Boris Johnson accused of having a 'casual' approach to Britain's national security by senior MPs

The Joint Committee on National Security Strategy, which is made up of senior MPs and peers, says that when the crisis in Afghanistan occurred over the summer, the British government was "unable to prepare for and respond to two national security crises simultaneously".

news.sky.com

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Which is strange because the PM has no problem having multiple women on the go.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

View attachment 21867
Fucking hell, is this accurate?

I mean, I would expect ours to be a bit more expensive, what with the sea in between us and Europe, but that's extortionate.

It's unbelievable that we (and indeed any developed nation) aren't able to create enough renewable energy to service our own needs.

We're surrounded by coast. It's windy and rainy. I'm sure we can invest enough in tidal, wind and hydroelectric to service our needs, topped up with a bit of solar energy.

But of course I know why we haven't done that yet. It's not in the interests of those who have a lot invested in stuff like gas and have a very loud voice in the ear of politicians.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

We’re getting better at ‘recycling’ spent nuclear waste for starts. Can always fire it into the Sun, in all seriousness

Not exactly cheap firing it in a rocket. What if the rocket carrying it exploded in the atmosphere? Not sure how much nuclear waste I want us to be firing into a massive nuclear fireball and upsetting the chemistry anyway.

 

[wingy]

I mean, I would expect ours to be a bit more expensive, what with the sea in between us and Europe, but that's extortionate.

It's unbelievable that we (and indeed any developed nation) aren't able to create enough renewable energy to service our own needs.

We're surrounded by coast. It's windy and rainy. I'm sure we can invest enough in tidal, wind and hydroelectric to service our needs, topped up with a bit of solar energy.

But of course I know why we haven't done that yet. It's not in the interests of those who have a lot invested in stuff like gas and have a very loud voice in the ear of politicians.

I wonder what structural factors are at play here?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

View attachment 21867
Fucking hell, is this accurate?

A quick Google would suggest its utter horseshit mate........fake news.....

 

[dutchman]

Last time I checked electricity was twice as expensive in Holland than it is in the UK and natural gas has been banned for home heating and cooking even though it's freely available at a very low price for industrial users. It especially hurts low income families who can't afford a modern heating system in a heavily insulated home.

 

[torchomatic]

 

[shmmeee]

View attachment 21880

People are claiming this is fake news further up the thread, I’m not sure that’s right. A quick google will get you old stats and with tax included, but the current wholesale price differential is about what’s in that graphic:

 

[torchomatic]

People are claiming this is fake news further up the thread, I’m not sure that’s right. A quick google will get you old stats and with tax included, but the current wholesale price differential is about what’s in that graphic:

Brexiters will tell you its fake news as they don't want to admit they have helped fuck the country up. They'll also tell you that we have 50K more nurses and 40 new hospitals.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Brexiters will tell you its fake news as they don't want to admit they have helped fuck the country up. They'll also tell you that we have 50K more nurses and 40 new hospitals.

NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

 

[shmmeee]

NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

Id imagine they’ve taken the max values, our range is huge compared to the rest so max vs average would make a big difference.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Id imagine they’ve taken the max values, our range is huge compared to the rest so max vs average would make a big difference.

lies, damned lies & statistics innit...

 

[torchomatic]

**probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

**people who don't want to be poor, insular and have food on the shelves of supermarkets.

 

[COV]

NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

So basically its way more expensive here?

 

[Grendel]

So basically its way more expensive here?

No not to the consumer I cannot see any evidence it is - Denmark from what I see is the most expensive European country though in February this changed

OVO Greener Energy | OVO

You’ll get 100% PPA backed renewable electricity + £20 to support new renewable generators. Together, we’re powering a more sustainable future for the country.

www.ovoenergy.com

Spot rates generally are irrelevant as most energy suppliers purchase in bulk. You can get fixed rates as a consumer at no real increases to last year if you shop around - businesses can get 5 or 6 year fixed deals especially on electricity very easily.

Rates are clearly rising for wholesale purchases

What’s Behind Europe’s Skyrocketing Energy Prices

Europe’s power costs have been pushed through the roof by a supply crunch in natural gas, the risk of military conflict in Ukraine and bottlenecks for renewable energy. Compounding the problem, France’s aging nuclear reactors -- the backbone of the region’s power system -- are becoming more...

www.bloomberg.com

Spin can be put on anything - household electricity comparisons are not it seems available in 2021 but this is 2020 - so you can I am sure try but there is no Brexit issue here - be disappointed

Electricity price by country 2023 | Statista

The cheapest electricity prices in the world could be found in Iran in 2023, whereas the cost of electricity per kwh was highest in Europe.

www.statista.com

 

[shmmeee]

No not to the consumer I cannot see any evidence it is - Denmark from what I see is the most expensive European country though in February this changed

OVO Greener Energy | OVO

You’ll get 100% PPA backed renewable electricity + £20 to support new renewable generators. Together, we’re powering a more sustainable future for the country.

www.ovoenergy.com

Spot rates generally are irrelevant as most energy suppliers purchase in bulk. You can get fixed rates as a consumer at no real increases to last year if you shop around - businesses can get 5 or 6 year fixed deals especially on electricity very easily.

Rates are clearly rising for wholesale purchases

What’s Behind Europe’s Skyrocketing Energy Prices

Europe’s power costs have been pushed through the roof by a supply crunch in natural gas, the risk of military conflict in Ukraine and bottlenecks for renewable energy. Compounding the problem, France’s aging nuclear reactors -- the backbone of the region’s power system -- are becoming more...

www.bloomberg.com

Spin can be put on anything - household electricity comparisons are not it seems available in 2021 but this is 2020 - so you can I am sure try but there is no Brexit issue here - be disappointed

Electricity price by country 2023 | Statista

The cheapest electricity prices in the world could be found in Iran in 2023, whereas the cost of electricity per kwh was highest in Europe.

www.statista.com

You should tell the news channels and energy orgs on them that 90% of suppliers potentially going bust is fake news then.

 

[torchomatic]

Spin can be put on anything -

And you do it so well.

 

[Grendel]

You should tell the news channels and energy orgs on them that 90% of suppliers potentially going bust is fake news then.

Yes its entirely fake news as the energy suppliers you refer to are tiny and have not purchased bulk wholesale energy - also this I assume will be more related to wholesale gas supply and not electricity. Most small energy franchises should not have been allowed licenses to operate but it has zero to do with anything other than that

 

[COV]

You should tell the news channels and energy orgs on them that 90% of suppliers potentially going bust is fake news then.

He reminds me of that Iraqi Minister of Information guy who proclaimed the US were about to be destroyed, as the tanks literally rolled in behind him

 

[Sick Boy]

View attachment 21867
Fucking hell, is this accurate?

I'd argue it's likely being a little selective in leaving off the southern countries - prices are increasing by 40% here.

 

[Grendel]

He reminds me of that Iraqi Minister of Information guy who proclaimed the US were about to be destroyed, as the tanks literally rolled in behind him

Please show me a link that shows consumers are paying more here than anywhere else in Europe - cheers look forward to it

 

[fernandopartridge]

NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

I understand the general point about it credibility and remain campaign misrepresentation, but, that graphic in shhmmmeee's post still seems to show that the UK is now paying is 100% more for wholesale gas than the average across Europe. That is a fucking disgrace and the government must be held to account for it.

 

[Grendel]

I understand the general point about it credibility and remain campaign misrepresentation, but, that graphic in shhmmmeee's post still seems to show that the UK is now paying is 100% more for wholesale gas than the average across Europe. That is a fucking disgrace and the government must be held to account for it.

But I don't think they are

This graph is 2020 and prices have risen since then and the UK average this year is 17.8 pence per KW

Electricity price statistics - Statistics Explained

EU statistics on electricity prices for households and non-households analyse their evolution and the differences between countries.

ec.europa.eu

 

[torchomatic]

FACTBOX: UK electricity prices now most expensive in Europe

UK day ahead power prices tripled to record levels Sept. 13 as tight generation margins combined with soaring power import, natural gas and carbon prices. The UK s accelerated coal phase out along wit

www.spglobal.com

 

[fernandopartridge]

But I don't think they are

This graph is 2020 and prices have risen since then and the UK average this year is 17.8 pence per KW

Electricity price statistics - Statistics Explained

EU statistics on electricity prices for households and non-households analyse their evolution and the differences between countries.

ec.europa.eu

You're showing the domestic prices from 2020. When the recent increase in wholesale prices filter down into UK household bills we'll compare.

 

[Grendel]

You're showing the domestic prices from 2020. When the recent increase in wholesale prices filter down into UK household bills we'll compare.

But don't most energy companies actually buy wholesale energy and also sell it at some point? I know one company I work with who has secured a 5 year fixed rate at the same level they had before for electric which I do not see as achievable if everyone was buying these rates

 

[fernandopartridge]

But don't most energy companies actually buy wholesale energy and also sell it at some point? I know one company I work with who has secured a 5 year fixed rate at the same level they had before for electric which I do not see as achievable if everyone was buying these rates

It's a fair point, it might be a capacity thing though. Perhaps some of the big suppliers have fixed X amount of their consumption but there are pressures on anything above that